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Author Topic: Avengers: Infinity War  (Read 1165 times)
schild
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Reply #35 on: December 01, 2017, 08:16:27 AM

when RDJ is done, i'm done
HaemishM
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Reply #36 on: December 01, 2017, 09:56:15 AM

I'm not sure the comics are well-served by having to vaguely pretend that all of that actually happened,etc.

They aren't. Say what you will about shit like Crisis on Infinite Earths, Infinite Crisis, Flashpoint or Rebirth, but DC has actually benefited from resetting the continuity a few times. Marvel had the best opportunity with Secret Wars recently and they didn't want to reset. So what's left of continuity is just odd and muddled. It's clear they've tried to do more diverse versions of those same characters in part because that's how Disney has been doing in all the big movie franchises, as well as trying to fit continuity to more fit the roster of movie properties, but they are now going back to the well again with whatever this Legacy shit is.

Recasting without a reboot would be acceptable, but they also have to start being concerned about the "I don't want to have to watch 17 movies just to know what the fuck is going on with the new movie" syndrome.

Merusk
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Reply #37 on: December 01, 2017, 10:39:12 AM

Someone I know hasn't watched any interconnected Marvel movie since Avengers 1 because of that fear. I keep telling them it's unfounded and they can skip Thor 2, Cap 2, etc but they're a completionist and there's no arguing with that. Best I've managed is to actually get them to see Ant Man since it was initially separate in the same manner Guardians was in the event it flopped.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Khaldun
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Reply #38 on: December 01, 2017, 10:41:51 AM

Right. The numbers of characters who "remember" that millions of universes died in the run-up to Secret Wars are already multiplying; and Marvel is already proliferating previously-unknown cosmic beings who live outside of the existing multiverse in some vaster multiverse and now Valeria Richards is coming back as a "lost Avenger" and so on and so on. And you've got Miles Morales running around looking into who the "real" Miles Morales in this universe is (which is just fucking nuts, right? This kid is swinging around town with his family kind of intact but aware that everyone else and everything else he ever knew is dead and gone forever). It's the same mistake DC made repeatedly and then tried to solve with really dumb things like "Prime Superboy punches reality". Convoluted to the point that even the most geeky person can't begin to keep track of it.
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Reply #39 on: December 01, 2017, 03:36:59 PM

Comic books are dumb, dilly dilly.

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Shannow
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Reply #40 on: December 01, 2017, 08:28:04 PM

Dilly dilly. +1

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #41 on: December 02, 2017, 09:52:23 AM

Iím sure ill have a lot of fun watching this but this trailer did not excite me at all.

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Khaldun
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Reply #42 on: December 02, 2017, 09:53:38 AM

The continuity stuff isn't really comic-books per se, though. It's the consequence of long-running serial storytelling combined with a need to preserve intellectual property intact. Soap operas have a version of this problem.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #43 on: December 03, 2017, 01:01:37 AM

Maybe I'm just being a grumpy old person here but when I read comics as a kid they were fairly self contained stories. In tv terms they were episodic instead of serialized and to be honest, I loved it. Once comics got more serialized I started losing interest because you'd be utterly lost if you missed a few issues.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
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Reply #44 on: December 04, 2017, 03:21:50 AM

Problem with this is that its really limiting on the stories you can tell.  Sometimes you need multi-issue arcs to tell a good story, or else your really stuck with "batman punches the villain of the day and everybody has a good chuckle" type stories. 

Now, Marvel has taken this way to far with their endless crossover bullshit events that require you to read a shit ton of different series to understand, and forces the writers of all of them to fuck up their continuity weather they want to or not.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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Khaldun
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Reply #45 on: December 04, 2017, 09:39:33 AM

It's really partly an issue with shared universes too, where at some point the accumulation of characters and stories should be leading to some fundamental changes in the nature of the world itself but somehow they don't--that's another attraction of the reboot, to avoid that moment.

Some characters/story settings avoid that by having the existence of super-powered, supernatural, futuristic, etc. people be secret or hidden. Blade I, II, III work that way. But with something like the MCU, it's hard at this point to see how that world doesn't become more and more radically fantastic. So far they've been playing it that way--the Vulture talks about how things have to change for his kind of "little guy", the world's governments push control over super-powered people via the Sokovia Accord, superheroes are a special kind of celebrity, we discover that there's been a 'secret history' of supers in the backdrop (the mystics protecting the world, SHIELD/HYDRA after WWII). But it's getting close to the point where it would be hard to see how cheap Iron Man-knockoff technology isn't having major impacts on society (prosthetics, warfare, etc.), where there would presumably be tons of attempts to duplicate the Super-Soldier formula, where verifiable knowledge of aliens wouldn't be having a big impact on human society, etc. The MCU makers like to mess around with this stuff a bit (the Korean "Church of Thor" thing) but they must know that they're close to the tipping point where MCU-Earth just can't be kept like our world if they're going to keep pushing with the shared-universe stories.
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Reply #46 on: December 04, 2017, 09:13:12 PM

Problem with this is that its really limiting on the stories you can tell.  Sometimes you need multi-issue arcs to tell a good story, or else your really stuck with "batman punches the villain of the day and everybody has a good chuckle" type stories. 

Now, Marvel has taken this way to far with their endless crossover bullshit events that require you to read a shit ton of different series to understand, and forces the writers of all of them to fuck up their continuity weather they want to or not.

Well, there's nothing wrong with something like Dark Phoenix interspersed with your more stand alone stories. But lately it feels like it is all serialized and it is all interwoven. Really, what it feels like to me, and I think someone said it already, is that comics are becoming soap operas. The writers start getting bored and start changing stuff up to shock the audience. "Let's kill Superman/Captain America/Wolverine!" and stuff like that.

I just feel like they've lost their way some. I haven't read a ton of either DC or Marvel in years except for Wonder Woman but it feels like DC is doing a better job of keeping their characters interesting in the comics.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Velorath
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Reply #47 on: December 04, 2017, 09:21:50 PM

I think someone said it already, is that comics are becoming soap operas.

They've been that since Claremont's original run on X-Men.
HaemishM
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Reply #48 on: December 04, 2017, 09:25:54 PM

Comics have always been the male-oriented version of soap operas - serialized escapist fantasies. ALWAYS. It's partially the nature of serialized content in general, as well as the legacy of storytelling in the '90's (which is when a lot of the current creators either started writing comics or started reading them). Also, Joe Quesada hates "rigid continuity" but loves crossovers and all other aspects of a shared universe. So the Marvel comics all want to have their cake and eat it too which you can only do for so long. Also, Brian Michael Bendis is the "creative force" behind most of their crossovers and he mostly sucks at it hard, along with not really liking super heroes.

Velorath
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Reply #49 on: December 04, 2017, 09:39:02 PM

Also, Brian Michael Bendis is the "creative force" behind most of their crossovers and he mostly sucks at it hard, along with not really liking super heroes.

Not any more at least since he recently signed exclusively with DC. He can go fuck up their comics for a while.
HaemishM
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Reply #50 on: December 04, 2017, 10:00:19 PM

Bendis signed with DC? UGH. Good news for Marvel. I hadn't heard that.

Sir T
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Reply #51 on: December 05, 2017, 07:34:54 AM

Fuuck. DC have actually been doing some good work recently, so this is a slap in the face. Way to go shooting your own foot AGAIN, DC.

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Reply #52 on: December 05, 2017, 09:07:29 AM

Looking forward to JUSTICE LEAGUE: CIVIL WAR  why so serious?

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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