Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 20, 2019, 06:14:51 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
Donate! | Shop: Amazon
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: World of Warcraft Classic announced at Blizzcon 2017 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 Go Down Print
Author Topic: World of Warcraft Classic announced at Blizzcon 2017  (Read 18275 times)
ezrast
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2054


WWW
Reply #105 on: May 18, 2019, 12:38:28 PM

Mildly amused by this list of not-bugs reaffirming to players that yes, questing actually sucked ass back then: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/wow-classic-not-a-bug-list/175887
luckton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5876


Reply #106 on: May 19, 2019, 03:16:10 PM

I get that there's a market for people that really enjoyed the WoW of old. Part of me actually does. And if I was still a bachelor with no other responsibilities besides my job, I'd love this.

But nah. That time has come and gone. I don't have enough time now to enjoy today's watered-down, streamlined, millennial-friendly WoW. But I agree with Ez; watching people lose their mind over how mechanics worked back then is  awesome, for real
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 03:29:57 PM by luckton »

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Jeff Kelly
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5937

I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #107 on: May 20, 2019, 04:46:29 AM

People think they want the classic game, what they actually want is a game that feels and plays like they remember it. Which is a version where they forgot most of the annoyances and only remember the fun stuff. The success of the RE2 remake for example partially comes from it being a game that 'feels like' RE" without actually being a faithful 1:1 recreation of RE2. At least that's what most people said.

Blizzard went for a faithful 1:1 recreation of WoW 1.12 (Opening of Ahn Quiraj patch) including the character models. They basically re-implemented WoW 1.12 on top of their new engine and recreated everything faithfully including all of the bugs and ideosyncracies. So I fully expect most of the people to drop off hard around level 30/40 when the level grind hits hard and people realize that the classic mid-level game lacked a lot of content. Also I look forward to people whining over all of the attunement quests, the Ahn Quiraj gate unlocking quest chain bullshit or the fact that you need to enter Blackwing lair to craft flasks. They even use the real classic WoW item drop rates, XP progression and respawn timers.

I don't know if it's because B÷izzard actually thinks that people want a faithful recreation of classic WoW or if it's epic level trolling but right now the mood is shifting slightly against classic. My impression is that most people expected Classic WoW to be more of a hybrid where you get the classic content but based on a client and graphics engine that offers you the conveniences of 'modern' day WoW.
lesion
Moderator
Posts: 783


Reply #108 on: May 20, 2019, 08:47:41 PM

Being basically forced to group up for some world quests is kinda nice though, since you need to make e-friends even if just for "invite plz/thx for group". It's a much slower pace and way more difficult than current WoW which I think imparts greater weight to just about everything. Definitely not something I'd pay for now, nor have the time for really but it's cool to chill in the nostalgia a bit.

steam|a grue \[T]/
Bungee
Terracotta Army
Posts: 879


Reply #109 on: May 21, 2019, 02:50:03 AM

I told you last page that the Classic forums were full of hardcore "back to 1.0" screamers. Blizzard listened to them. Now that other people realize wth the screaming was actually about, they suddenly aren't so sure they like Classic anymore.
Ah, the internet (is for porn).

Freedom is the raid target. -tazelbain
Cyrrex
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8486


Reply #110 on: May 21, 2019, 02:55:38 AM

I would much rather play that old classic version of WoW than the watered down crap and hand-holding that passes for a modern MMO.  Problem is, I still don't want to play classic WoW.  Everyone has done that for eleventy billion hours, it has played out.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Jeff Kelly
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5937

I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #111 on: May 21, 2019, 04:47:10 AM

What the "back to 1.0" screamers actually want IMHO is the "feeling of 1.0". The way they felt playing it and how the community was structured. I'd call it the WoW midlife crisis, except that they don't buy Porsches or Harleys and try to hit on women half their age. You can't recreate the frame of reference though. People were coming off of Everquest and by compariosn WoW was the better experience - in 2004.

I get that there's a legitimate wish to have a game that's less 'hand-holdy' and more hard core and that's more structured like pre-WotLK WoW but the vibe I get from many of the die hard 1.0 proponents is that they want 1.0 because that's the version they remember most fondly. If you want a more hard core experience you could reasonably argue for a Burning Crusade server as well because most of the disliked changed came with Wrath of the Lich King or Cataclysm (LFG system etc.). There's no reason why it has to be a 100% classic experience pre BC except nostalgia.

You could do a Burning Crusade server or even a Classic server on top of the current client with the current graphics and amenities (sans LFG and LFR) and you'd still have a more hard core experience just without the classic bugs, the perfromance problems and the annoyances. People wanted the authentic classic experience though.

The beta reactions are split. Some of the the die hard crowd likes it - because right now they are all playing and reminiscing about the 'good old days' and so you actually have a 'social experience' that's similar to WoW launch with world PvP in Tarren Mill etc.. There are also a lot of people who expected a 'remake' of classic instead of a faithful recreation and there's also the 'be careful what you wish for' crowd who get reminded of all of the badness that was classic WoW, they don't like it as much.
Jeff Kelly
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5937

I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #112 on: May 21, 2019, 10:18:29 AM

As an aside: When I say 'die hard' proponents of a 100% WoW classic experience I mean that. For example: those people railed against color blind options Blizzard wanted to backport from the current version of WoW into classic mode because those features weren't initially part of the classic experience.

Imagine being so orthodox that you are opposed to acessibility options that don't have any influence on the actual game experience just because they weren't in the classic game.
Soulflame
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5947


Reply #113 on: May 21, 2019, 01:34:09 PM

Being basically forced to group up for some world quests is kinda nice though, since you need to make e-friends even if just for "invite plz/thx for group". It's a much slower pace and way more difficult than current WoW which I think imparts greater weight to just about everything. Definitely not something I'd pay for now, nor have the time for really but it's cool to chill in the nostalgia a bit.

Especially after the initial rush, when there's no one left in the zone!  That's even more fun!

Or, possibly, forced grouping is bullshit.
Falconeer
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10739

a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country


WWW
Reply #114 on: May 21, 2019, 02:17:50 PM

Forced grouping was bullshit, for sure. At the same time, now there are no games with forced grouping at all and there's definitely an audience that misses it and would like at least one MMORPG where it's a central part of the game. 

01101010
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10879

You call it an accident. I call it justice.


Reply #115 on: May 21, 2019, 02:59:36 PM

This is pretty much going to be a nostalgia fix that people will use for a week or 3 and then go back to whatever they are doing. I miss vanilla WoW, but only in context and time period.

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Soulflame
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5947


Reply #116 on: May 21, 2019, 04:47:19 PM

I played initially during Burning Crusade, but I would not say that I actually miss that era of WoW.

I'm not sure there's actually an era of WoW that I do miss, come to think of it.  They all had minor issues that grew more aggravating the longer you were exposed to them.

I did enjoy a lot of BC and Wrath, but I don't know that I'd want to be dropped into either of those eras without QoL improvements and bug fixes.
Bungee
Terracotta Army
Posts: 879


Reply #117 on: May 22, 2019, 10:42:27 AM

Although that's more of a generic "I do not have 40 hours a week to dedicate to playing an MMO anymore" problem.

Yeah, that. Can't somebody just do a game around the Arena system, Overwatch style?

I stand by that statement and add the Battleground system to it. I loved the PvP in late BC.

Freedom is the raid target. -tazelbain
Soulflame
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5947


Reply #118 on: May 22, 2019, 03:21:25 PM

I think Mythic was working on a game that was pretty explicitly the WoW arenas, but that might have been an addition to their Warhammer game?
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 40446

Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


WWW
Reply #119 on: May 22, 2019, 04:52:21 PM

I think Mythic was working on a game that was pretty explicitly the WoW arenas, but that might have been an addition to their Warhammer game?

It was the Warhammer battlegrounds (a few of them) without all the MMO stuff and contrary to popular belief, it SUCKED. When I played it, something about it never felt quite right. It was a good idea done badly, which is pretty much the Warhammer battlegrounds in a nutshell.

Rasix
Moderator
Posts: 14459

I am the harbinger of your doom!


Reply #120 on: May 22, 2019, 04:58:47 PM

Although that's more of a generic "I do not have 40 hours a week to dedicate to playing an MMO anymore" problem.

Yeah, that. Can't somebody just do a game around the Arena system, Overwatch style?

Like Battlerite?

-Rasix
Soulflame
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5947


Reply #121 on: May 22, 2019, 05:06:45 PM

I think Mythic was working on a game that was pretty explicitly the WoW arenas, but that might have been an addition to their Warhammer game?

It was the Warhammer battlegrounds (a few of them) without all the MMO stuff and contrary to popular belief, it SUCKED. When I played it, something about it never felt quite right. It was a good idea done badly, which is pretty much the Warhammer battlegrounds in a nutshell.

I also recall it being not all that great, but, you know, Mythic.   Ohhhhh, I see.
Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9548


Reply #122 on: May 23, 2019, 12:51:51 PM

Maybe I'm in the minority but I really hated WoW Arenas. At least the BGs were fun the first few times, and eventually rewarding. Arena was just a FOTM-chasing meatgrinder with awful matchmaking and rich-get-richer ranking-based rewards.

Check out my podcast: ADD&D, Attention Deficit Dungeons & Dragons!
"I think it's time for a dose of F13 RED PILL MOTHER FUCKERS" ~cosapi
Bungee
Terracotta Army
Posts: 879


Reply #123 on: May 23, 2019, 02:01:25 PM

I think Mythic was working on a game that was pretty explicitly the WoW arenas, but that might have been an addition to their Warhammer game?

It was the Warhammer battlegrounds (a few of them) without all the MMO stuff and contrary to popular belief, it SUCKED. When I played it, something about it never felt quite right. It was a good idea done badly, which is pretty much the Warhammer battlegrounds in a nutshell.

It was because they removed everything that made a class unique in WAR and every archetype had basically the same skills, just renamed. As far as I can remember.

Freedom is the raid target. -tazelbain
Soulflame
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5947


Reply #124 on: May 23, 2019, 02:22:05 PM

Maybe I'm in the minority but I really hated WoW Arenas. At least the BGs were fun the first few times, and eventually rewarding. Arena was just a FOTM-chasing meatgrinder with awful matchmaking and rich-get-richer ranking-based rewards.

I certainly agree with all of that.  I enjoyed a couple of the battlegrounds quite a bit, those were Arathi Basin and Alterac Valley.  The others were tolerable at least.

WoW Arena for me was "fail at 5v5 a few times a week for the minimum rewards" mostly.  There was a period where FotM was some awful warrior + holy paladin that we tried out for a bit, but that was a 30+ minute hellfest of finally managing to down one of the other team.
Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9548


Reply #125 on: May 23, 2019, 04:15:45 PM

Maybe I'm in the minority but I really hated WoW Arenas. At least the BGs were fun the first few times, and eventually rewarding. Arena was just a FOTM-chasing meatgrinder with awful matchmaking and rich-get-richer ranking-based rewards.

I certainly agree with all of that.  I enjoyed a couple of the battlegrounds quite a bit, those were Arathi Basin and Alterac Valley.  The others were tolerable at least.

WoW Arena for me was "fail at 5v5 a few times a week for the minimum rewards" mostly.  There was a period where FotM was some awful warrior + holy paladin that we tried out for a bit, but that was a 30+ minute hellfest of finally managing to down one of the other team.
WSG was fun at low levels in vanilla when it was the only option. AB was indeed better, and old school AV (which they aren't implementing in Classic swamp poop) was great. The rest of the BGs were pretty shit, and PVP generally got worse as they introduced more shitty BGs and forced encouraged the Random queue. Thinking back I can only barely remember some of the other BGs: Strand was the vehicles one, EotS was the AB/WSG hybrid that was awful...there was another, smaller AB-style one too IIRC. Wintergrasp was cool was it was open to the whole server; when it became a queued BG it went to hell.

Check out my podcast: ADD&D, Attention Deficit Dungeons & Dragons!
"I think it's time for a dose of F13 RED PILL MOTHER FUCKERS" ~cosapi
ezrast
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2054


WWW
Reply #126 on: May 23, 2019, 04:34:15 PM

old school AV (which they aren't implementing in Classic swamp poop)
wat

why are they even bothering then
Soulflame
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5947


Reply #127 on: May 23, 2019, 05:24:24 PM

I never experienced classic AV.

When I say AV, I mean that era right after expansion release, when people have not yet capped out their gear, and had to actually take down towers and mid.  End of an expansion AV turned into "zerg the final guy gogogogogo".  That was less than fun.
Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9248


WWW
Reply #128 on: May 23, 2019, 05:57:57 PM

Old school AV was great (when you were winning) when the flags were right on top of the respawn points in the graveyards. And when you could train Korrok the bloodrager onto the mid graveyard. The fucking bridge was bullshit though.

'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
Rendakor
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9548


Reply #129 on: May 23, 2019, 06:49:12 PM

old school AV (which they aren't implementing in Classic swamp poop)
wat

why are they even bothering then
They're doing 1.12 AV, with no Korrak, no racial bits turn-ins, and so on. There's a whole article about it here.

Check out my podcast: ADD&D, Attention Deficit Dungeons & Dragons!
"I think it's time for a dose of F13 RED PILL MOTHER FUCKERS" ~cosapi
Setanta
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1341


Reply #130 on: May 24, 2019, 01:51:14 AM

Korrak/turn-ins etc was more fun than the mess that AV became. Sure you had 2-3 day games, but it was fun and you could drop in and drop out and rack up honor.


"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Druzil
Terracotta Army
Posts: 541


Reply #131 on: May 24, 2019, 08:40:51 AM

old school AV (which they aren't implementing in Classic swamp poop)
wat

why are they even bothering then
They're doing 1.12 AV, with no Korrak, no racial bits turn-ins, and so on. There's a whole article about it here.

This is not a good decision swamp poop


The things I miss most about classic wow are the people - the friends, the guilds and the rivalries that I made along the way.  That's not something that going back to old mechanics is going to get back.  So even though I enjoyed WoW way more pre-dungeon finder, I don't have any illusions that going back is going to make the game fun for me again.

There's also the newness factor.  I've been to those zones and done those dungeons and quests tons of times.  I'm ready for something new.
Cyrrex
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8486


Reply #132 on: May 27, 2019, 02:03:57 AM

For me, it would be more fun than it is now.  But unlikely fun enough for me to invest time in it, let alone pay for it.  Stranger things have happened, though.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Ashamanchill
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1220


Reply #133 on: May 27, 2019, 03:02:46 AM

I tried watching a few Twitch streams to see if I wanted to play Vanilla for a second time. Turns out I really really don't. I hope those that do enjoy it though.

A poster signed by Richard Garriot, Brad McQuaid, Marc Jacobs and SmerricK Dart.  Of course it would arrive a couple years late, missing letters and a picture but it would be epic none the less. -Tmon
Cyrrex
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8486


Reply #134 on: May 27, 2019, 06:50:53 AM

Dumb question from someone not really following along....this comes with a major graphics overhaul, or what?

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
luckton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5876


Reply #135 on: May 27, 2019, 06:56:21 AM

They're using their current BFA graphics engine. They're just adjusting data tables and the talent system to match vanilla. They've blogged about the difficulties of such adaptations late last year on how spells/skills were tabled in the before time vs now.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Jeff Kelly
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5937

I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #136 on: May 27, 2019, 06:59:02 AM

No. Classic will feature the 2004 features and graphics. The way Blizzard approaches this is to give people exactly the 2004 WoW experience. Including the graphics. They run it on the current engine but everything including the tectures will be 2004
Cyrrex
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8486


Reply #137 on: May 27, 2019, 07:21:57 AM

LOL, okay.  Better margins when soaking the rubes, I guess.

And this part:

They've blogged about the difficulties of such adaptations late last year on how spells/skills were tabled in the before time vs now.

Give me a fucking break.  I am not arguing that it isn't true or it isn't hard.  But either it is a big fat lie OR these are the dumbest motherfuckers that ever lived.  Hmm, let's see, we have a break-through, one-of-a-kind never to be repeated runaway smash-hit success of an MMO, yay us!  Here's an idea!  Let's NOT copy this motherfucker and store it in a safe somewhere!  Or more prudently, in 10 different safes all over the world!  Let's totally not do that!

Fucking idiots.  They should have copies of every goddamn version they ever created, locked away somewhere safe.

Edit:  I don't pretend to know all the complexities of how their newer engine might interact with all that older shit, but this is their IP.  They should have been able to shit this out in no time flat and charged people zero dollars to play it.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 07:25:20 AM by Cyrrex »

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
ezrast
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2054


WWW
Reply #138 on: May 27, 2019, 09:54:56 AM

tl;dr No, operational and compatibility issues make dealing with legacy distributed systems hard even if every individual piece of software still works.

I guarantee you the problem isn't that they don't have the old code lying around. The problem is that WoW is a massive networked system with a ton of dependencies and you can't just power up an old server image and have something production-ready. One game realm will likely be sharded across multiple physical servers and connected to a bunch of external services for authentication, character storage, analytics, etc. For some of those things, like the storage engine, you just keep the software version in sync with the main servers and you're fine - but only if you're okay with having exactly-2006 WoW, and you still have to remember how you did all your operations back then, and update a bunch of processes regarding where backups go and how networks are laid out and yadda yadda to bring everything up to current standards so your existing ops team can deal with both systems without going insane. You also have to deal with any lurking assumptions the software may have about the server hardware or operating system, since their physical infrastructure has surely been revamped a time or two in the last decade. Throw in QA for all of this and it's a significant amount of work, though perhaps still minor for a company like ActiBlizz.

Except that other dependencies cannot be left at their 2006 state: centralized services such as authentication and chat (and potentially analytics, security/anti-cheat stuff, etc etc). Those systems have been completely overhauled since the game came out, meaning the 2006 software can't interface with any of it. In a perfect world where everyone writes maintainable, modular code, you yank out those sections of the code base, slot the new APIs in, and you're off to the races. In the real world, hahaha no, that's a huge revision to some really fundamental components of the server and client and trying to backport all those changes would likely be a huge quagmire. Plus, it would be awful moving forward because now the code base is split in two: the current, modern server vs the updated "Classic" frankenserver, and the Classic server still consists mostly of code that nobody's worked on in over a decade so good luck maintaining it and re-fixing all the bugs you've dealt with since then (at least, the kind you *don't* want to bring forward as part of the Classic experience, like crashes and performance issues).

In the end, it's way more sane to take the old data and bring it up to date for the current server. This is still complicated because a bunch of stats and concepts don't exist anymore (MP5, spell ranks), and you also have to add a bunch of conditional regressions in the server and client software to re-enable things that were taken out (old combat formulas, inconsistent/buggy behavior that you *do* want to reproduce but only in the Classic environment). But, you can do it incrementally and at least everything will be consistent when you're done.

All that is just the stuff that's apparent from the outside. The actual system is probably ten times more complex than I'm making it sound. So yeah, it's a little bit of work.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 09:56:53 AM by ezrast »
Jeff Kelly
Terracotta Army
Posts: 5937

I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.


Reply #139 on: May 27, 2019, 11:36:19 AM

I agree:

The devs also stated that they don't have the original code base anymore/can't reconstruct it from repos and even if they could it wouldn't matter because they no longer have the infrastructure from 15 years ago.

Their plan is to basically run the WoW classic scripting (lua based) on the current engine and networking infrastructure. Everything that wasn't script based is re-implemented in the current WoD engine.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: World of Warcraft Classic announced at Blizzcon 2017  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC