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Author Topic: Solo: A Star Wars Story  (Read 10190 times)
HaemishM
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Reply #175 on: June 19, 2018, 09:08:38 AM

I don't know what compels these studios to grind up their best characters and shove them into stupid cul-de-sacs. Money I guess. Marvel has avoided it so far, but we'll see when Phase 4 ends what they do to them.

It's because characters aren't characters to studio heads, they are ASSETS with BRAND RECOGNITION that have to be exploited until every last micro penny is squeezed from the fruit. Kevin Feige is one of the few studio heads who seems to get that (and to a lesser earlier extent, Avi Arad) there is more to a character than just its name.

Paelos
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Reply #176 on: June 19, 2018, 09:23:34 AM

I agree with Ceryse's take for the most part. I think it's several things that came together to take a fun movie and turn it into a loser for a studio that's trying to squeeze as much out of their newly bought assets as fast as they can.

This is the Disney problem in a nutshell, they over saturate everything they own until they have to take it off the market for a while, and then reintroduce it to fanfare.

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Threash
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Reply #177 on: June 19, 2018, 10:57:22 AM

Can't fault them really, it's working just fine with their Marvel movies and they crank those out 3-4 times a year. They are actually getting better and more profitable ten years on.

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jgsugden
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Reply #178 on: June 19, 2018, 11:56:47 AM

While I have trouble putting my finger on why Solo was not something I was excited to see (despite feeling like it was fine, but not great, once I did see it), I don't think I'm ruined for Star Wars.  I want to see episode 9.  I want to see a live action Star Wars in 2019 on Disney Streaming.  I want more animated series to hit the air and continue what lone Wars and Rebels have contributed.  I think I might be a bit unenthused for a Kenobi movie, and more enthused for Boba Fett.  However, rather than a film focused on any of these characters, I'd rather see a KotR film, or a film that focuses on something brand new in the SW Universe. 

I wonder if something as simple as a name change for the Solo movie might have changed my enthusiasm.  I wonder if people would have been more interested in Star Wars: The Kessel Run Gambit (or a less shitty version of a name that feels like a Star Wars title). 

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eldaec
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Reply #179 on: June 19, 2018, 03:53:35 PM

I definitely agree having Han Solo at the centre of this is a negative for anyone posting here.

Not convinced it makes the film harder to sell to the wider public.

I vaguely remember this forum having dismissed Solo as a ridiculous project before Rogue 1 won some trust back.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 04:31:08 PM by eldaec »

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HaemishM
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Reply #180 on: June 19, 2018, 04:50:39 PM

I don't know if ridiculous is the right word so much as totally unnecessary.

eldaec
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Reply #181 on: June 19, 2018, 06:36:08 PM

Unnecessary is an odd word for a movie. They are all unnecessary.

What do we really mean by that?

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Velorath
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Reply #182 on: June 19, 2018, 07:01:17 PM

Unnecessary is an odd word for a movie. They are all unnecessary.

What do we really mean by that?

It's a fairly common way to describe a movie. Like when we get sequels to movies that worked perfectly well as stand-alone stories like Highlander or The Matrix.

While corporate people who run studios generally make movies in order to make money, many of the people involved on the creative side are often passionate about the story they're trying to tell. Sure Disney needs to release 2-3 Marvel movies a year, but you get the feeling that the reason they choose Guardians of the Galaxy as one of those products is because James Gunn probably had a great pitch for it that everyone got excited about. On the other hand, Solo feels like something that exists because it was mandated by the studio (in this specific case because a Solo screenplay had already been worked on when Disney bought Lucasfilm).

That's not to say that all passion projects turn out good, or that a story commissioned by studio execs has to be bad, but when a movie clearly feels like it's being made just for the paycheck, then yes, it comes across as unnecessary.
eldaec
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Reply #183 on: June 20, 2018, 03:43:45 AM

Sounds like we're just saying the story simply wasn't interesting enough?

Certainly agree it feels like they said 'do Han Solo' and pushed too far down the development process without much more than a bunch of arbitrary scenes that reference lines of dialog in the OT.

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"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Velorath
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Reply #184 on: June 20, 2018, 04:22:13 AM

Sounds like we're just saying the story simply wasn't interesting enough?

To say that the story wasn't interesting enough implies that a lot of people saw the movie and just didn't like it. Really, the idea of a Solo movie wasn't interesting enough, and the marketing didn't convince enough people otherwise (I say all this of course in comparison to the attendance of previous SW movies).

Hiring Lord and Miller was probably the most inspired move Disney has made with SW and it's a shame that didn't pan out because they really need to find some directors who can bring their own voice to the franchise. If they had pulled off a SW movie with the humor of the Lego Movie and 21 Jump Street that would have been worth seeing for me. I'm sure Ron Howard did the best he could under the circumstances but it's clear that things got to a point were Disney just needed to get the movie out and that didn't help the marketing at all.
Paelos
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Reply #185 on: June 20, 2018, 09:02:40 AM

I'd actually like to see Disney tackle the Hundred Year Darkness and the split of the first Jedi Order to form the Sith Lords. But that's likely going to be impossible because it's hard and nobody outside of the nerds know about it.

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jgsugden
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Reply #186 on: June 20, 2018, 09:13:25 AM

I'd be interested in seeing a brand new story in a brand new time untouched by prior materials, so long as it is made by people that are trying to tell a great story, rather than people trying to find a good story amongst the backdrops of what we know.

Can a Solo sequel work?  The first Wolverine disappointed, but the sequel was much better.  The third solo movie was the best.  However, all three were disappointments at the box office.  Adjusted for inflation, none of them are top 25 Marvel derived movies.  Is Solo the Wolverine of the Star Wars universe... maybe not a perfect analogy, but passable.  I think they'd be better off looking for a Dr. Strange or Black Panther new direction than try to squeeze more from another Solo.


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Threash
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Reply #187 on: June 20, 2018, 09:51:43 AM

Anything not connected to the original series in any way would be welcome. Tell a different story, this one ends with the next movie please.

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eldaec
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Reply #188 on: June 20, 2018, 10:43:20 AM

Agree with that. The better MCU movies all follow the same model.

Same universe, new characters, new story, late production easter egg insert to keep certain people happy that they spotted an obtuse reference to other movies.


"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
HaemishM
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Reply #189 on: June 20, 2018, 10:55:16 AM

Unnecessary is an odd word for a movie. They are all unnecessary.

What do we really mean by that?

I'm saying that as a writer. The character's narrative arc didn't really need any further explanation. His past didn't matter much because he was fairly well fleshed out in the original trilogy as a character even without knowing his past. The fact that he was such an endearing character is the only reason people cared about his past. I've rarely heard any clamoring for a Leia prequel from Star Wars fans.

Boba Fett, on the other hand, is not only a fan favorite but almost a complete blank as a character, even after the awful prequels. His story could use a fleshing out in a prequel - it's maybe not necessary for the importance he had to the story, but a prequel about him would certainly be more necessary from a writing/creative/narrative standpoint than Han Solo in a heist movie.

BobtheSomething
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Reply #190 on: June 20, 2018, 11:53:50 AM

Sounds like we're just saying the story simply wasn't interesting enough?

Certainly agree it feels like they said 'do Han Solo' and pushed too far down the development process without much more than a bunch of arbitrary scenes that reference lines of dialog in the OT.

The story was more interesting than TFA or TLJ.  We also got to see more of the Star Wars universe, especially the criminal underground which is often held up as one of the more interesting facets of the setting.  The characters were better drawn, more compelling, and had more agency than the sequel protagonists as well.  But there were no Skywalkers and nearly no lightsabers, so I guess it couldn't have been that good.
Velorath
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Reply #191 on: June 20, 2018, 02:01:01 PM

But there were no Skywalkers and nearly no lightsabers, so I guess it couldn't have been that good.

Yeah, that's totally what people are saying.
HaemishM
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Reply #192 on: June 20, 2018, 02:56:23 PM

Yes, BobtheSomething, that's absolutely exactly what I meant. Don't be a fucking moron. I haven't even seen the movie, I'm only commenting on my perception of what I thought the movie might be and why I didn't think it was absolutely necessary I go see the movie. A Boba Fett prequel would likely have plenty of the seedy criminal underbelly of the setting and not have lightsabers, and I said that'd be a more interesting story than young Han Solo.

taolurker
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Reply #193 on: June 20, 2018, 03:16:58 PM

https://io9.gizmodo.com/report-the-star-wars-story-films-are-being-put-on-hold-1826992769

Quote
The Star Wars Story Films Are Being Put On Hold

After the disappointing box office of Solo: A Star Wars Story, a new report says Lucasfilm has put all future Star Wars Story standalone movies on hold. That means, at least for now, no Boba Fett movie, no Obi-Wan movie, and no Solo spinoffs.



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eldaec
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Reply #194 on: June 20, 2018, 03:52:14 PM

Clickbait gonna clickbait.

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Phildo
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Reply #195 on: June 20, 2018, 04:09:10 PM

Killing the Obi-Wan movie is going to piss off some of the die-hard fans even more.

*Insert Ewan McGregor meme*
eldaec
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Reply #196 on: June 20, 2018, 04:12:26 PM

I'm really not sure there is an Obi Wan movie. In fact, as far as I know nobody seems properly signed on to do anything for 2020 and beyond.

They've got names exec producing trilogies left right and centre but nothing beyond people having development meetings.

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BobtheSomething
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Reply #197 on: June 20, 2018, 09:54:38 PM

Yes, BobtheSomething, that's absolutely exactly what I meant. Don't be a fucking moron. I haven't even seen the movie, I'm only commenting on my perception of what I thought the movie might be and why I didn't think it was absolutely necessary I go see the movie. A Boba Fett prequel would likely have plenty of the seedy criminal underbelly of the setting and not have lightsabers, and I said that'd be a more interesting story than young Han Solo.

I was not even replying to you.  I agree with you that Solo was unnecessary for the story.  I was against the very idea of Solo right up until I saw it.  (Have a child, must see Star Wars.).  It was good enough to be worth seeing for enjoyment even if it isn't necessary to the narrative .And you weren't the only person not to see Solo.  Most people didn't, and for even sadder reasons.  Not seeing Solo because TLJ sucked is like not seeing Black Panther because Ultron sucked.

Saying it lacked Skywalker and lightsabers is just another way of saying it isn't one of the main saga, not one of the "important" films in the franchise, even though it was better than five or six of them. If you would rather wait for the garbage JJ will share out next year's, by all means do that.

And now Disney appears to be doubling down on the garbage.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 09:56:13 PM by BobtheSomething »
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Reply #198 on: June 20, 2018, 10:17:50 PM

You guys don't get it. Some things can suck without taking a franchise with it. The pre-quels sucked. Badly directed, bad acting, bad dialogue. But they didn't for the most part get people less excited to see the "extra" bits of star wars. The unnecessary parts you really don't need to see to enjoy starwars movies. You had a Renaissance of games, books, and animated tv shows based off 3 bad sify B-movies. What you have with TFA and TLJ is bad movies because who fucking cares how the nerds feel about these characters or lore? Who cares what happens to han solo? or luke skywalker? or chewy? No we have new characters, with better "morally grey but no not really grey at all" plots and their bigger and more grown up than your old star wars.

Who exactly gets excited to see a movie about han solo? New fans who saw a tired old man get killed by his emo son? Or old fans who grew up with han solo? The problem is SOLO didn't need to be made but if any good will was bought from the last 2 movies, good will bought by saying "hey we actually care about star wars and its characters" than people would have rolled out of bed to see this because hey its star wars. But lacking that good will? Lacking that respect for the source material? Than the unnecessary movie that didn't need to be made gets watched on netflix by the mildly curious. And its going to be the same for all their stand alones until they un-fuck the franchise for the nerds who pay money for the extra shit.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 12:57:19 AM by MediumHigh »

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Velorath
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Reply #199 on: June 21, 2018, 12:59:42 PM

I have no idea what you're actually trying to say here. However, the prequels got released at a time when there weren't so many toxic Internet cultures. Had they been released today, the only thing that might stop them from receiving the same reaction as TFA and TLJ is that the prequel cast was still mostly white and male.
Threash
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Reply #200 on: June 21, 2018, 01:11:22 PM

Jesus, if the prequels had been released today Star Wars was over with the Phantom Menace.

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jgsugden
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Reply #201 on: June 21, 2018, 01:26:36 PM

If the Prequels were released today - the first Star Wars in 30 years - people would have ridiculed PM, but been eagerly looking for them to fix it in the next film.  

In other news - the nigh end for Standalones may not be so nigh: Star Wars Stand-Alones clipping is apparently misinformation
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 05:12:52 PM by jgsugden »

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #202 on: June 21, 2018, 05:56:58 PM

If the Prequels were released today - the first Star Wars in 30 years - people would have ridiculed PM, but been eagerly looking for them to fix it in the next film.  

In other news - the nigh end for Standalones may not be so nigh: Star Wars Stand-Alones clipping is apparently misinformation

And then followed up by clone wars? Yeah it would have wrecked the ip in todays culture.

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Hoax
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Reply #203 on: June 21, 2018, 09:22:03 PM

I have no idea what you're actually trying to say here. However, the prequels got released at a time when there weren't so many toxic Internet cultures. Had they been released today, the only thing that might stop them from receiving the same reaction as TFA and TLJ is that the prequel cast was still mostly white and male.

I mean I'm not a major fan of the posting style but he's saying Solo's audience didn't exist because the new fans (kids) don't care because Han had been reduced to a shit character in TFA/TLJ and the old fans don't care because Han was reduced to a shit character and to many of them TFA/TLJ shit on them in the first place so generally fuck Star Wars.

Combine that with the worst release date, bad word of mouth, lukewarm reviews and stories about production trouble....   and it didn't make bongo bucks, it still made tons of money though given all that but supposedly Disney is reacting to the feedback? I'm unclear if the tweet or whatever is real that they aren't going to do any non-mainline movies.

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Hoax
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Reply #204 on: June 21, 2018, 09:22:41 PM

If the Prequels were released today - the first Star Wars in 30 years - people would have ridiculed PM, but been eagerly looking for them to fix it in the next film.  

In other news - the nigh end for Standalones may not be so nigh: Star Wars Stand-Alones clipping is apparently misinformation

And then followed up by clone wars? Yeah it would have wrecked the ip in todays culture.

Bullshit. How many transformers movies have there been?

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Velorath
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Reply #205 on: June 22, 2018, 04:00:18 AM

If the Prequels were released today - the first Star Wars in 30 years - people would have ridiculed PM, but been eagerly looking for them to fix it in the next film.  

In other news - the nigh end for Standalones may not be so nigh: Star Wars Stand-Alones clipping is apparently misinformation

And then followed up by clone wars? Yeah it would have wrecked the ip in todays culture.

Bullshit. How many transformers movies have there been?

The Transformers movies have been pretty consistent in how bad they were though. Anyone who thought the second one was entertaining doesn't get to complain about the fifth one.
Threash
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Reply #206 on: June 22, 2018, 08:55:40 AM

The transformer movies are also quite a bit better than the prequels.

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Goumindong
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Reply #207 on: June 22, 2018, 02:42:58 PM

Sounds like we're just saying the story simply wasn't interesting enough?

Certainly agree it feels like they said 'do Han Solo' and pushed too far down the development process without much more than a bunch of arbitrary scenes that reference lines of dialog in the OT.

Characters; like stories have beginnings, middles, and endings. These define their “character arc”.

Some serials can avoid this. Because their characters are new each episode; the main cast is the setting rather than the characters.

But most shows/movies cannot avoid it. Once the character has run its course Adding more material doesn’t enhance the overall narrative; it is unnecessary.
Draegan
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Reply #208 on: July 07, 2018, 01:00:07 PM

I saw this today, my thoughts:

1- it was fun, i enjoyed it.
2- TLJ or this didn't ruin sw for me.
3- lando was great.
4- I thought the dude played a decent han. Good guy trying to emulate bad guys. I didn't need him to be young Ford. Young lando was amazingly accurate though.

People read too much into these things.
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Reply #209 on: July 07, 2018, 02:14:30 PM

Solo made about $380 million worldwide so far. The movie hasn’t even recouped it’s production and marketing budget.

Deadpool 2 already made three times that in one third of the time.

For a Star Wars franchise movie Solo is performing disastrously.
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