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Author Topic: Red Dead Redemption 2  (Read 2933 times)
Khaldun
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Reply #35 on: October 27, 2018, 07:20:40 AM

From what I'm seeing in reviews and publicity, the character moving like a sack of potatoes and unfun looting and so on is part of The Vision [tm]: e.g., that this is an open world that rules you, not that you are the future ruler of the world.
Cyrrex
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Reply #36 on: October 27, 2018, 07:27:57 AM

Honestly, it sounds like every Rockstar game ever.  They succeed in spite of terrible movement mechanics.  GTA 5 was the first time they even got the driving physics tuned right, it was always dogshit before.

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Falconeer
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Reply #37 on: October 27, 2018, 08:27:08 AM

It is so stupid, borderline demented. What would be a fantastic incredible game ends up being something I probably never finish because it is physically painful to do the most basic function of the entire game: moving around.

There is a huge difference between allowing characters to move unrealistically fast and twitchy and tranforming a main character into a goofy malfunctioning man-shaped tank. And where is the realism when every minor object stops you in your tracks or forces you to slowly and gently open and close it according to the animation rails? We grill that Chris Robert crook for bullshit like this. Rockstar does not get a free pass from me, especially cause movement and interactions here feel overall worse than Gta 4 (four!) to me.

Edit: someone said it better than me:

"however, it still maintains Rockstarís bullish commitment to a clunky control scheme. Across whatís now four games and two console generations, the companyís characters have lumbered along in whatís meant to convey the weight of a real person in contrast to the light, effortless controls of so many other games. But the result is artificial rather than convincing. Studios like Naughty Dog have proven capable of giving characters a consequential sense of weight without making it a challenge to navigate around a table or requiring you to hold down buttons to move at acceptable speeds. Coupled with middling gunplay feedback and a few too many stealth segments, the chunky act of playing Red Dead Redemption 2 doesnít feel good so much as it feels, eventually at least, tolerable."

Naughty Dog or, you know, Horizon Zero Dawn.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 08:29:56 AM by Falconeer »

schild
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Reply #38 on: October 27, 2018, 08:31:31 AM

Every Rockstar game has shit movement and I haven't played a single one past a 4 hour or so session because of it.
HaemishM
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Reply #39 on: October 27, 2018, 02:40:42 PM

GTA 5 was the first time they even got the driving physics tuned right, it was always dogshit before.

I disagree. GTA5 is better than it was before, but the driving is still dogshit.

Yegolev
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Reply #40 on: October 29, 2018, 07:19:32 AM

This is kinda funny because the movement isn't what bothers me so much.  I do think it's rather realistic, which I can dig, but the things that really bother me:

is when I lose all my pelts due to ambush and I forgot to save.  Realism?
is when I unintentionally murder someone and the autosave captures it.  Realism?
is when I gun down/beat up/loot someone and somehow I get a witness that is trying to report me.  Sometimes there isn't even a visible person.
is when I'm recognized even though I'm wearing a bandana.  Realism?  I should change all my clothes?

Really, The Mosey isn't the main trouble.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
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eldaec
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Reply #41 on: October 29, 2018, 01:47:36 PM

GTA 5 was the first time they even got the driving physics tuned right, it was always dogshit before.

I disagree. GTA5 is better than it was before, but the driving is still dogshit.

I haven't played a GTA for a while, but I always thought the driving felt exactly like an 8 year old playing with toy cars. Which I assume was the goal.

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Rasix
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Reply #42 on: October 29, 2018, 06:52:34 PM

This is kinda funny because the movement isn't what bothers me so much.  I do think it's rather realistic, which I can dig, but the things that really bother me:

is when I lose all my pelts due to ambush and I forgot to save.  Realism?
is when I unintentionally murder someone and the autosave captures it.  Realism?
is when I gun down/beat up/loot someone and somehow I get a witness that is trying to report me.  Sometimes there isn't even a visible person.
is when I'm recognized even though I'm wearing a bandana.  Realism?  I should change all my clothes?

Really, The Mosey isn't the main trouble.

I was trying to get on my horse and managed to accidentally pick a fight with a civil war veteran.  awesome, for real This was right after I paid off a previous bounty. At least the trip was short.

Unintentional awesome: chasing someone on horseback and not clearing enough space under a shack ended up with a cartoon style de-horsing.

So far, I'm enjoying it, despite the UI/map icons being a bit small for me, and issues with the controls. Too many potential violent actions share buttons with non-violent actions. See above.

Still, it's just RDR with added stuff. The added stuff is fine with me so far.

edit: I think I've had issues with every single Rockstar UI. At least the colorblind option is better than normal. I just have to remember that hot pink is the new red.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 06:54:39 PM by Rasix »

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Khaldun
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Reply #43 on: October 29, 2018, 08:05:20 PM

I can see someone who enjoys the ultra-realism saying, "Yeah, being misidentified and accidentally picking fights and all that is realistic, man, so it's part of the The Experience."
Sky
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Reply #44 on: October 30, 2018, 09:39:57 AM

The reuse of buttons and button mapping in general gave me some initial issues in my test run. As far as movement, coming from Horizon ZD and Spidey 2018, it's going to feel even more brutal. And yeah, I was concerned about the tiny UI, as well. Again, HZD had a nice solution: auto-hide the UI, touch the touchpad to see it for a few seconds. Lets me play with a view of the nice scenery, very immersive, but the info pops up on screen as I need it; stays out of the way when I don't. Close to perfect.

I think I really don't like the setting of RDR. Couldn't finish the first one (halfway, maybe?), and I'm not on fire to start the new one. I love westerns on the screen, so I'm not sure why I find it so boring in a game. After Elex and HZD, I think post-apoc primitive sci-fantasy might be my favorite setting.

Anyway, going back to features. I think my main concern for RDR2 is the clunky gameplay in general, after playing two games that are just fun to play. I don't mind grinding out a few bandit camps or challenges in HZD or clearing out bad guys in Spidey, because both feature fun action/stealth gameplay. I've always felt Rockstar's games were more 'endure the clunky gameplay because the overall game is fun and over the top'. I'm not sure that holds water any more.

Mandella
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Reply #45 on: October 30, 2018, 01:48:51 PM

HZD makes playing *anything* else a chore. They really nailed it with that title.

That said, I didn't care for the DLC much. Did you have any issues with it, or am I alone?

As far as RDR2, my staff at work are pretty much in the pro-Rockstar camp, with one holdout over the clunky movement thing. As for me, I don't generally mind the control scheme at all but I have to agree with Sky that apparently video game westerns just aren't my thing.
01101010
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Reply #46 on: October 30, 2018, 03:05:14 PM

Westerns on screen are great because they cut out all the shitty boring crap in the middle, or at least only give you a brief look. Western games smack you in the face with it. Really curious how online part is going to fare.

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MisterNoisy
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Reply #47 on: October 30, 2018, 08:19:03 PM

The reuse of buttons and button mapping in general gave me some initial issues in my test run. As far as movement, coming from Horizon ZD and Spidey 2018, it's going to feel even more brutal. And yeah, I was concerned about the tiny UI, as well. Again, HZD had a nice solution: auto-hide the UI, touch the touchpad to see it for a few seconds. Lets me play with a view of the nice scenery, very immersive, but the info pops up on screen as I need it; stays out of the way when I don't. Close to perfect.

I think I really don't like the setting of RDR. Couldn't finish the first one (halfway, maybe?), and I'm not on fire to start the new one. I love westerns on the screen, so I'm not sure why I find it so boring in a game. After Elex and HZD, I think post-apoc primitive sci-fantasy might be my favorite setting.

Anyway, going back to features. I think my main concern for RDR2 is the clunky gameplay in general, after playing two games that are just fun to play. I don't mind grinding out a few bandit camps or challenges in HZD or clearing out bad guys in Spidey, because both feature fun action/stealth gameplay. I've always felt Rockstar's games were more 'endure the clunky gameplay because the overall game is fun and over the top'. I'm not sure that holds water any more.

RDR2 is definitely pushing the limits of what we can do with a modern four-face-button gamepad.  Even compared to GTA5, the amount of holding buttons and clicking others while selecting with others iis bonkers.

Bring on the six face-button gamepads!.

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Big Gulp
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Reply #48 on: October 31, 2018, 06:46:38 AM

Control issues aside, I did happen to run into a Klan cross burning at random in the middle of the woods.  I got to stack their bodies like cordwood, which all by itself was worth the $59.99 admission price.
Sky
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Reply #49 on: November 06, 2018, 10:49:34 AM

Finally started digging into this over the weekend. I only have two gripes thus far, one minor and one major. Minor: I wish washing up was more convenient (as in: could be done in camp). Sure, I could just cheese it by swapping outfits, but I like the slow paced style of the game and that's a jarring gamey decision.

The major one (for me) is the day/night cycle. It's waaay too fast. It worked fine for GTA, but in RDR with its slower pace and very relaxed style of gameplay, it's a constant irritant. I want to take my time tracking some deer through the woods and looking around at stuff and not feel rushed because the day cycle is so short.

I suppose that's a pretty decent initial impression of the game, that I like the style they went for so much that I think they didn't push it enough.

My two favorite tips thus far: dbl-tap L1 to spin your pistols as you put them away, and you can auto-walk in cinematic camera if you set a waypoint. I've never used a Rockstar cinematic camera much, but it's great in this one.

Mandella
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Reply #50 on: November 06, 2018, 11:23:05 AM

Does the game allow modding? Probably a dumb question, but I've never messed with modding on the PS4, so I have no idea.

But day/night cycles are one of the first things I mess with in a game, for exactly the reasons you state. I kinda like to mosey even if I'm not in a western game.
Sky
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Reply #51 on: November 06, 2018, 11:55:57 AM

Obligatory saving you 3 seconds of googling: https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/9sfvfc/some_useful_tips_for_red_dead_redemption_2/

And copypasta for the even lazier:

« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 11:57:42 AM by Sky »

Jeff Kelly
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Reply #52 on: November 08, 2018, 07:00:05 AM

Chapter 5 feels like it was destined to be a much bigger part of the game which got cut for time but which was never fully removed because of the money and effort that had already been spent on it. The game loses prety much all of the momentum there and it feels like a total drag.
Hawkbit
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Reply #53 on: November 08, 2018, 08:18:50 AM

Iím still in chapter one and itís a slog. Good to know it doesnít get better. I feel like Iíve played this for 20 hours and Iím still trying to find the fun.

The day/night cycle sucks like Sky said. Itís also damn hard to find where sounds are located in game. I can hear someone yelling but itís too far off, so by the time I have found the event It is usually over.
Falconeer
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Reply #54 on: November 08, 2018, 11:12:25 AM

It's the goddamn gameplay. This would have worked better for me if they went full Telltale with better graphics. Instead, every time I have to go anywhere/do anything I feel compelled by the desire and hope to see something new or get a new part of the story but at the same time I feel terribly aggravated by the idea of what I have to do to get there. Everything feels so heavy, fatiguing.

Sky
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Reply #55 on: November 08, 2018, 11:55:20 AM

Itís also damn hard to find where sounds are located in game. I can hear someone yelling but itís too far off, so by the time I have found the event It is usually over.
I've had that happen a lot. I realized it's because I'm playing with no radar (just popping it up to check my bearings as needed). I was playing a section with the large radar up to see where I was going and noticed they emit a sonar-like blip when they call out. It disappears quickly, but it's at least something. And as you say, if it's outside the radar, good luck ever seeing them.

So far the controls haven't been bugging me since I shifted gears into RDR mode. Only thing I've tweaked was turning off dead zone (I've always hated that about console controls anyway).

Mandella
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Reply #56 on: November 08, 2018, 12:33:28 PM

It's the goddamn gameplay. This would have worked better for me if they went full Telltale with better graphics. Instead, every time I have to go anywhere/do anything I feel compelled by the desire and hope to see something new or get a new part of the story but at the same time I feel terribly aggravated by the idea of what I have to do to get there. Everything feels so heavy, fatiguing.

An acquaintance of mine was playing the original RDR when her mom walked in.

Mom: "What are you doing?"

Her: "Riding my horse to Mexico."

Time passes.

Mom: "How long is this going to take?"

Her: "About as long as it would take to ride my horse to Mexico."

And then she put down the controller and never logged back in again.

 awesome, for real

Honestly, that kinda makes me want to play it...
Falconeer
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Reply #57 on: November 08, 2018, 12:57:25 PM

Hey, I adore trucking simulators. Also walking simulators. The beauty if Euro Truck Simulator is getting on the highway in Roma and happily and meditatively drive all the way up to Stockholm without too much hassle. The road "flows" under you. It takes about 2 real life hours and can be very addicting.
But RDR2 just has too many things to keep track of that don't feel rewarding to me. Moving around is a chore. Inventory is a chore. Hunger, thirst, energy, even looting, is a chore. Feeding yourself, cleaning your gun, shaving, and fucking shooting, it's all chore-y.
I think I would have less of a problem if it were "Cowboy Manager 2019", meaning text based and all. Story, visuals and and audio are incredible here, but the actual "game" is so swampy. I want to love it every time I boot it up, but end up somehow tired after 30 minutes.

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Reply #58 on: November 08, 2018, 03:36:01 PM

Then you realize you left your rifle on your horse.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Hawkbit
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Reply #59 on: November 08, 2018, 07:26:33 PM

That's what caused me to kill the game without saving last night. I decided to take on a bandit camp but failed to get my rifle off my horse first. Instead of trucking back to the horse I just said fuck it and went to bed. I wish they would come up with a fun-mode patch that turns all that extraneous bullshit off.
01101010
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Reply #60 on: November 08, 2018, 08:33:26 PM

But realism, man...  why so serious?

"I want to watch it all burn in an orgy of smashed Coke machines and weasel rape." - HaemishM
Yegolev
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Reply #61 on: November 09, 2018, 07:24:02 AM

Counterpoint: you can whistle for your horse.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Sky
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Reply #62 on: November 09, 2018, 07:51:17 AM

I actually like that aspect. I'm a fan of verisimilitude, though. I like the emergent gameplay (oh shit, I forgot to grab that rifle, do I risk calling Bessie over or take these guys on with my pistol and lasso), that's one of the  things that makes Rockstar games interesting.

Yegolev
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Reply #63 on: November 09, 2018, 02:26:08 PM

I haven't been murdered by a cougar yet, so there's that.  The real limiter is that the game physically puts us to sleep.  I can fight it well enough but my wife can't.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
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