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Author Topic: Marvel's The Defenders  (Read 1285 times)
MediumHigh
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Reply #35 on: August 23, 2017, 04:25:04 AM

I keep imagining Daniel Wu from Into the Badlands as a Chinese-American Daniel Rand. He could play the bratty, double-privileged, babe-in-the-woods kid *and* do amazing martial arts. Finn Jones is just a giant block of inert nothing at the heart of it all.

Don't waste a perfectly good Asian actor on a role that demands him to be an indecisive twat with mommy issues. I mean fuck we have the last 10 years of anime main characters living out the basement fantasy of its weeboi fanbase for that.

Iron fist sucks because they want an anime main hero with an origin story where no one acts like an anime character and everyone knows who the fuck they are already. So when he is with the grownups he gets treated like a child, who you can't grab the TNT away from. I didn't hate the iron fist show, but maybe because I've been watching recent anime and de-sensitized my taste pallet when your main character who suppose to be this great warrior, defender of fucking heaven has more in common with deku from my hero academia.

And not knowing what to do with him in this show is painful to watch, but doesn't kill the Defenders. I liked it, not more than daredevil or jessica or luke cage but definitely better than whats on TV. And whats on TV is bad. I wish they just give up on having us care about his personal story and just focus on him being a bad ass martial artist, but you know Netflix has a command from on high that any tv show they make gotta be meta, gotta have social relevance. And while that is easy when your talking vague nothings about today's social issues, its less pointed when your trying to over compensate for a white guy beating up poor people because he knows magic kungfu.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 07:48:20 AM by MediumHigh »

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eldaec
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Reply #36 on: August 23, 2017, 05:44:26 AM

Also we've had 18 hours of shows with Iron Fist in them. That is a lot of screentime in which to show zero growth. RDJ hasn't played Iron Man for that long.

Regardless, I enjoyed this.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 05:50:42 AM by eldaec »

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eldaec
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Reply #37 on: August 24, 2017, 04:40:40 PM

Actually one thing did niggle aside from Fist.

"Jessica Jones is an alcoholic ha ha ha what a good punchline"

It might have been that it was never funny.

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Khaldun
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Reply #38 on: August 24, 2017, 07:53:28 PM

She is showing genuinely Wolverine levels of shrugging off the drink in ways that are a bit, hey hold on. She's not a high-functioning alcoholic in her habits and amounts but she is treated as if she is one, as if it doesn't impair her except when it's a funny character bit for her to be slightly impaired.
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Reply #39 on: August 24, 2017, 11:59:12 PM

Out of curiosity: Given the decline, how would you want Netflix to proceed?  My best path for them would be to:

* Do more seasons that are shorter (film 2 seasons at a time, each 6 to 8 episodes, release them every 6 to 12 months rather than 12 to 24 months). 
* Keep Daredevil mostly separate. 
* End Iron Fist. 
* Merge Jessica and Luke into one series.
* End Punisher.
* Give us Moon Knight.
* Combine the ABC/Movie/Netflix by giving us a Hawkeye and Mockingbird series.

I would want them to proceed by not having shows dedicated to shitty fucking heroes and having the standard course of action be "make it grimdark, everyone fucking broods."
Khaldun
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Reply #40 on: August 25, 2017, 07:44:58 AM

Yeah, I think this is the other thing they need, is to be less embarrassed by the superhero genre. And to spend a bit more money. The long, draggy intervals in all of these series except DD 1 has something to do with wanting to avoid anything that looks like super-hero action for a lot of it for both financial and 'ew, superheroes' reasons.

The MCU is also creeping up on a problem that all super-hero universes have but only a few really come to grips with: that life eventually would be substantially different in those worlds, that things would change for everyone. The old Wild Card books that George Martin edited grabbed that problem by the balls and solved it; so does Kurt Busiek's series Astro City. Marvel and DC's main comics mostly ignore it except when they don't (when they don't often leads to great stories).

The MCU kind of has to deal with it because it's trying fairly hard to stay "realistic" and to be fairly constrained in the way it visualizes superheroes, whether we're talking the TV or the movies. Hence Jessica Jones making fun of Daredevil for having a costume, Luke Cage finding someone being "the Iron Fist" faintly ridiculous just as a concept, etc. This is not a universe where the first thing that someone who gets a power greater than human thinks to do is put on skin-tight spandex and punch bad guys in the middle of Times Square. Captain America's costume starts as a stage stunt and then becomes just a variation on a practical soldier's uniform custom designed for a superstrong guy with a shield. Thor's outfit is an alien's thing and everyone sees it as amusingly outre but also a bit awesome. Hawkeye and Black Widow basically don't wear 'costumes'. The Hulk doesn't either. Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver don't. Ant-Man finds his own science outfit kind of ridiculous. Even Spider-Man's outfit is basically being turned into a variation of Iron Man's: a technology first and foremost, not a disguise or "union suit".

But the Avengers-level films are now dealing with: what does it mean to the world when there's a team of global law enforcers/special ops people who have these powers? The Defenders was a bit more reluctant to come to grips with that. Harlem's different because of Luke. There's that one bit where Karen is trying to reassure Matt that he did something necessary and good by being DD even *if* he doesn't need to any longer. They're going to have to keep working on that. Your urban-level characters have either got to be a bit obsessive or kinky or whatever--being a superhero has to be something they just have to do, even if no one really needs them--or the metasituation has to require superheroes because something's changing, so that they have no choice but to keep doing it. Usually it's the latter--the event that made superheroes also makes supervillains, the police have given up and gone home (some versions of Batman's Gotham City at the time Batman suits up), something.

Right now with the MCU TV shows, there really isn't that kind of overall thinking. Luke cares about Harlem, but where does that go? If the politicians and cops don't care enough about Harlem, that eventually means: fighting the cops and the politicians again (which they should have stuck with more anyway). Jessica has sort of lost a motivation and she sure as hell doesn't really care what's going on overall--that will have to change. Matt is an obsessive, maybe; the Hand and Elektra function as a secondary motivator. Iron Fist is stuck in his own origin/millieu--he's got nothing once the Hand and K'un L'un are sorted out. But if in the next round of series you more or less have these four people doing shit in New York that sometimes is visible and has public consequences, eventually that has to change shit. If you were a cop--or a government--and you knew there was an invulnerable guy who could walk into gunfire unharmed, that would change your status quo. If you were an FBI agent and knew there was a stealthy ninja vigilante who could sneak into a mob safe house and get the hard drive of an incriminating computer and then leave it as an "anonymous tip", that would change things. If you knew you could hire a private detective who could throw a car through a wall, that would change things.

The Spider-Man movie actually did an interesting thing with the Vulture along those lines: the street-level consequences of aliens attacking and so on. The TV shows need to do their own version of that.
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Reply #41 on: August 27, 2017, 09:52:31 PM

Out of curiosity: Given the decline, how would you want Netflix to proceed?  My best path for them would be to:

* Do more seasons that are shorter (film 2 seasons at a time, each 6 to 8 episodes, release them every 6 to 12 months rather than 12 to 24 months). 
* Keep Daredevil mostly separate. 
* End Iron Fist. 
* Merge Jessica and Luke into one series.
* End Punisher.
* Give us Moon Knight.
* Combine the ABC/Movie/Netflix by giving us a Hawkeye and Mockingbird series.
You want them to end Punisher (one of the most well done characters to come out of this Netflixverse), and do Moon Knight (one of the worst and most pointless ripoff hero's in Marvels line up).

 Ohhhhh, I see.

But yes, kill Iron First or recast him or something god damn fuck

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Khaldun
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Reply #42 on: August 27, 2017, 10:11:55 PM

Moon Knight, yeah, I just can't see it.

If they want to do martial arts and give Luke a martial arts buddy, kill IF halfway through his season 2 and introduce Shang Chi to replace him. Though he has some pretty complicated baggage in his own right--I assume they'd just forget the Fu Manchu stuff, since it was a copyright violation back when they first did it.

Does Marvel Studios still own Blade? He could work really well, and introduce a new hook. Brother Voodoo maybe too if they can make him a bit less hokey.

They're doing Cloak and Dagger elsewhere, which is too bad, they could also work.

Ghost Rider, if they can reclaim him from SHIELD.

Taskmaster? He can almost be a protagonist, if he's done right.

Ms. Marvel, maybe, but I think she doesn't work with this mood--she needs to be upbeat and light, plus her powers can't be done on the cheap.
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Reply #43 on: August 27, 2017, 11:33:25 PM

Moon Knight - the first 20 episodes of the original comic - would be awesome. Yeah, he was still a Batman ripoff, but had plenty of unique twists. Moon Knight - I'm on the same team as Norse Gods version?No point.

So yeah, it would fit the Netflix mold quite well.

I am an admitted fanboi though, and own more Moon Knight comics than Batman comics.

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Reply #44 on: August 28, 2017, 12:01:24 AM

So I don't read comics and have no idea who a lot of these characters are... but it doesn't really matter.  Iron Fist sucks even without any knowledge of his comic book background or what he should be like.  I don't like anything about him... his acting, dialog, story, face, hair, outfit... he's just annoying.  His shoes are especially unattractive.  I couldn't get through the Iron Fist series and he might have the ability to ruin The Defenders, which I don't think is so bad.

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