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Author Topic: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi  (Read 248147 times)
Samwise
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Reply #140 on: December 11, 2017, 12:43:55 PM

None of the following count as surprises:

1) Rey is a Skywalker.
2) Rey turns to the dark side.  (Which probably requires killing Ren.)
3) A member of the original cast dies.
4) There is a Porg and it is cute.

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Sky
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Reply #141 on: December 11, 2017, 01:57:29 PM

I'm pretty sure Finn is a Skywalker from when Luke "turned to the dark side" IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN WINK WINK
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #142 on: December 11, 2017, 02:32:44 PM

I'm sure I've mentioned it in this thread or the ep 7 one but Rey going evil and Finn being the jedi to redeem her in ep9 is still a distinct possibility to me.

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Reply #143 on: December 12, 2017, 01:09:18 AM

It's Kylo.  He's 1/2 Skywalker and Luke remains the strongest Jedi in the new canon. 

Anakin was stronger than Palpatine, which was why Palpatine worked so hard to convert him. While the loss of his limbs crippled him, he was STILL stronger, as he was able to toss Palpy into the Death Star reactor with little fuss. The Emperor wanted to turn Luke because his potential was stronger than Vader as a cripple due to being whole.
Supposedly it's actually Ray, or at least female.  Haven't been able to verify it with a limited google search, but rumor has it someone picked it out of a subtitled version this trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0CbN8sfihY from somewhere like Taiwan or Korea, where they have gender specific words for things like "you", and noticed that the line Snoke delivers at the beginning of the trailer (which everyone assumes is directed at Ren) uses a Feminine "You", which leads them to believe that both Snoke and Luke later in the trailer are talking about Ray, and not Kylo.

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Reply #144 on: December 13, 2017, 03:47:33 PM

Just returned from the theatre. NO SPOILERS


but let me say that the last 40 minutes blew me away and  got me VERY emotional: the first part of the movie, on the other hand left me...not disappointed, but pretty neutral about the whole thing ("so..is that it?").  And yeah, having avoided most spoilers, I didn't expect the outcome about one of the characters.

Do I like TLJ better than TFA (and I really liked TFA) ? *gnashing of teeth".....hmm, first part of the movie: personally,  no,  but "hell yeah" for the last hour or so. And what about the "holy grail" called ESB, also considering the often mentioned parallelism between the various chapters of the saga? You know....similar but...VERY, VERY different, for some obvious reasons.

Enjoy the show  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

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eldaec
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Reply #145 on: December 13, 2017, 07:07:17 PM

This is good.

But, the first 20 minutes I did not enjoy, and there were too many jokes that would have sat better in space balls.

Also, in places it gets a bad case of the prequel cgis.

And the whole 'this is going to go how you think' line is overdone. That said, you should  stay spoiler free because although the reveals are not really a shock - they are very satisfying when delivered.



It is a much better film than tFA.

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eldaec
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Reply #146 on: December 13, 2017, 07:08:28 PM

There are some things about this movie that are better than the ESB equivalent.

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Wasted
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Reply #147 on: December 13, 2017, 07:12:40 PM

I liked this a lot better than The Force Awakens.

There are still some annoying bits, but it definitely feels like its own movie and not just a big nostalgia grab like TFA.
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Reply #148 on: December 14, 2017, 01:11:11 AM

Well, that's a relief, I guess.  'Cause it still looks from the outside to be a remake of ESB.

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eldaec
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Reply #149 on: December 14, 2017, 02:39:48 AM

Oh it is entirely that. Set expectations accordingly. Even the opening crawl doesn't fuck about on this topic, it might as well say 'remember the start of ESB? We' re back there'

But it isn't a remake in the same paint by numbers way tFA is a remake of aNH.
 
There are some very on-the-nose scene for scene repeats. But characters react to them in a satisfying and different way that lets you contrast how OT characters did it and finds ways not to simply tell you who is right.

Luke and Leia arguably get better characterisation than they did in the OT. This Poe is much more interesting than tFA Poe.

Like every new star wars it has pacing issues. The plot's unwillingness to slow down (whole thing runs for somewhere between 48 and 72 in universe hours as far as I can tell) means character growth  stretches credibility. But at least it is there.

The worst aspect of the film is the slapstick dialled up way too far. To such an extent that occasional well delivered jokes that might have made me chuckle stopped being funny. That said, the audience was laughing a lot. Maybe they were morons or maybe I hate fun. Possibly both.

Dreadnought captain guy is how you do funny in a star wars film. General Hux is not.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 02:59:43 AM by eldaec »

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Reply #150 on: December 14, 2017, 04:58:47 AM

I'd happily watch an entire movie about the adventures of Dreadnought Captain Guy. Or an animated series.

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Reply #151 on: December 14, 2017, 08:21:48 PM

Damn good movie. Genuinely surprised me in a couple of the choices they made, two in particular. I don't see how JJ is going to be able to follow this one up. If TFA was Batman Begins, then this was the Dark Knight which leaves Episode 9 in danger of being The Darkknight Rises (which I thought was a pretty bad movie compared to the two that preceded it) Before one of you jumps on me, my comparison isn't meant to say this is as good as the Darkknight, but just relative quality differences between the movies within the trilogy.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
eldaec
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Reply #152 on: December 15, 2017, 02:24:58 AM

Dark knight is a good comparison.

Both films have flaws, but really stand out for final acts that deliver thematically and for their characters as well as having explosions and punching.



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Reply #153 on: December 15, 2017, 03:42:20 AM

I loved it.

The blatant side quest was the only slow part for me.

Had some great humor beats and a couple that fell flat.

My jaw dropped multiple times and I even blurted out "no fucking way" in a good way once.


Caveat: I'm that guy that wears a Star Wars t-shirt to watch a Star Wars movie.

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Reply #154 on: December 15, 2017, 11:48:30 AM


Like every new star wars it has pacing issues. The plot's unwillingness to slow down (whole thing runs for somewhere between 48 and 72 in universe hours as far as I can tell) means character growth  stretches credibility. But at least it is there.



Actually...


"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
eldaec
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Reply #155 on: December 15, 2017, 01:00:44 PM

I was allowing for there to be a day or so between the start of the movie and the person saying the thing in the spoiler. Also there could reasonably have been 24 hours between the end of the period mentioned in the spoiler and the end of the film.

But it does grind gears and seems a trivial thing to fix.

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Reply #156 on: December 15, 2017, 04:46:45 PM

That's it. I'm done.

In all seriousness, I think I'd rather watch the prequels than this.
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Reply #157 on: December 15, 2017, 10:32:59 PM

I saw this today and I'm still a little ambivalent about it. I'm not sure how to feel. There were some really good parts in it, particularly in the last half-hour. There were some choices I did not expect and was pleasantly surprised by. There were some really well-filmed scenes and well-staged scenes. There was some good humor.

But it was tonally all over the place, as if it didn't really know where on the spectrum of comedy and drama it wanted to rest. Some of the comedy was good but slapstick is a good description of some it. At times, it felt very much like a Star Wars movie while at other times it was just odd. The entire casino scene and plot felt out of place, not just the plot point or the side quest that spawned it, but the whole casino did not feel like it belonged in the Star Wars universe. In addition, there were at least two major characters (or should have been major characters) that we just get no information on at all, Capt. Phasma and Snoke. There's no origin, no explanation, no character motivation (at least with Snoke you know it's because he's a Sith Lord or something but the lack of any sort of origin for him just puzzles me).


The more I think on it, the more I like Force Awakens better than this.

EDIT: I forgot to mention

« Last Edit: December 16, 2017, 12:31:07 AM by HaemishM »

eldaec
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Reply #158 on: December 16, 2017, 01:12:09 AM

I'll tell you where the casino does fit - the prequel universe.

But watching our heroes pratfall in their flight suits was incongruous.

The main tonal issue I have with this is the first order. They aren't frightening because there is no sense of competence. Hux gives us no sense he could lead an army, Phasma and her troopers seem to have escaped an anime.  In aNH Tarkin immediately gives a sense that the empire is not going to fuck around and is quite capable of getting shit done. Hux never gives that impression. Dreadnought Captain guy maybe - but mostly he reinforces the problem by pointing out that the FO are mostly idiots.

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Reply #159 on: December 16, 2017, 02:20:34 AM

Very disappointed.

Some of it was not really anyone's fault or can be forgiven.  There were a few Luke lines that ended coming out with the animated Joker's voice.  That took me so out of the film...  And the criticism of Episode 7 being like episode 4... and then the scrawl of Episode 8 being so similar to the start of Episode 5.  I can put those issues aside if the rest of the film works, but....

Some of it was just the wasted story elements. 
Some of it was unearned sap.  It takes more than 5 minutes to forge a meaningful relationship, folks. 
Some of it was massive idiocy.
Some of it was poor writing. They tried to subvert expectations so much that it got in the way of the story.
Some of it was dialogue.  Some very, very bad dialogue in places.  There were several moments that took me right out of the film.

There were good moments.  There was some iconic images.  There were a few great lines.  But the good stuff was not connected enough to give me chills.  Trim the film down - remove some of the cute - it would be better, but it was a disappointment. 

2020 will be the year I gave up all hope.
eldaec
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Reply #160 on: December 16, 2017, 04:38:50 AM

Amazing. Every word in that sentence is wrong.

(Actually I agree with you on the casino, the porgs, and idea the film should be 20-30 minutes shorter.)

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Reply #161 on: December 16, 2017, 04:53:47 AM

I mean he does watch agents of shield and wants the mcu to tie into that garbage.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #162 on: December 16, 2017, 05:16:03 AM

Re:Luke


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Reply #163 on: December 16, 2017, 08:50:50 AM

Have had three people, knowing I don't like Star Wars, explain the movie to me. I didn't ask them to do this.

Not a single person description moved me past "why the fuck do people still watch this shit?"

I can see nostalgia driving people to see Phantom Menace. Hell, that's why I saw Phantom Menace. But we're five movies later and I haven't heard anyone I trust actually call them great.

So, real talk, why the fuck do any of you care about Star Wars? Is there some sort of generational thing we're you're just unable to admit it's poorly written garbage for kids?
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Reply #164 on: December 16, 2017, 01:06:30 PM

People still care because there have been plenty of good star wars media in the last 30+ years since the original movies. Even more after the prequels (as surprising as that may be).  Whether its the both of the clone wars cartoons, some well written comics, books, etc etc. Its not like the franchise has been lying dead for years only for greedy studio execs to swoop in our on a popular IP from the begone era of the 70s. The ground floor, the living room, and the damn kids rooms are there. The movies just need to not suck at building a fucking roof.
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Reply #165 on: December 16, 2017, 01:17:42 PM

I'm not really a fan.  I think very little about Star Wars between films, so 'care about' is a far stronger term than I would use to describe my relationship to the franchise. Star Wars and the MCU are the only two franchises where I will watch a Hollywood event movie, nearly all the other times I don't watch blockbusters/action Hollywood films.

They aren't great films, if you only ever want to watch great films then skip them.  They are what they are now, if you don't know if you want to see it or not then you are over-thinking it.

I do think Star Wars will get better with time, in that I think once the memory of all the money they paid for the franchise fades a bit and they allow smaller scale side projects to experiment with themes we might get some 'great' films, but the Episode movies will always be Event films and made for mass market expectations.
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Reply #166 on: December 16, 2017, 02:30:11 PM

Enjoyed it, but I can see the cracks. If it wasn't Star Wars, it would be patently ridiculous B movie crap for the most part. With each new movie the 'event' feel of a SW release is lessening. I am sure I will see the others, but they won't feel quite as special as they used to.


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Reply #167 on: December 16, 2017, 02:54:52 PM

I still watch Star Wars movies because when they are good, they are good. And I have enough nostalgia from them as a kid that I've been willing to accept the bad (except Revenge of the Sith which I never saw in theaters, only on a bootleg download). Rogue One, for whatever its flaws, showed that you can do something different with the Star Wars universe that takes some risks and make a good movie out of it. I have actually not ever read a Star Wars EU book, nor seen any of the animated movies or TV shows so I'd really only call myself a casual Star Wars fan rather than a rabid one.

This took some risks and I think most of them failed, mostly because I think they were done to subvert audience expectations rather than a conscious story choice. It was just a glorious mess and the last half hour just showed how well it COULD be done but wasn't.

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Reply #168 on: December 16, 2017, 03:04:47 PM

Cause we aint miserable and hate ourselves? It's fun space opera with some nostalgia thrown in.

The first 90 minutes were a bit meh. The last hour was great. One particular scene at the end got me in the feels. Porgs were awesome, fuck you haters!

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Threash
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Reply #169 on: December 16, 2017, 04:25:02 PM

This was pretty damn great.

So, real talk, why the fuck do any of you care about Star Wars? Is there some sort of generational thing we're you're just unable to admit it's poorly written garbage for kids?


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Reply #170 on: December 16, 2017, 09:45:29 PM

It's going to take me a while to process this. I agree, it managed to retell Empire without feeling like the shot by shot retread that episode 7 was.

I enjoyed it, was surprised several times, was bored a few times... It never really seemed to have enough "big" moments. The one big silent shot was pretty awesome, though I agree with Jgsugden that it just creates another why didnt they ever do that before dilemma.


I'll admit, I kind of like the squeaky bird in the Falcon. Totally not the type of thing I usually enjoy, but I think they got the humor balance right there.

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HaemishM
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Reply #171 on: December 16, 2017, 10:09:53 PM

Porgs were awesome. I loved the porgs.

eldaec
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Reply #172 on: December 17, 2017, 04:00:26 AM

I'd have been fine with the porgs if we didn't also get frog nuns, and crystal pokemon, and green milk monsters, and casino planet horse-things.

There is too much nonessential cgi. Individually they are all bearable. Together it makes the film feel like a George Lucas special edition.

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Threash
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Reply #173 on: December 17, 2017, 06:09:03 AM

I'd have been fine with the porgs if we didn't also get frog nuns, and crystal pokemon, and green milk monsters, and casino planet horse-things.

There is too much nonessential cgi. Individually they are all bearable. Together it makes the film feel like a George Lucas special edition.

Only one that bugged me was the milk one, I thought blue milk was bantha milk anyways.

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ghost
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Reply #174 on: December 17, 2017, 07:38:15 AM

Overall this was a decent flick that could have used a decent editor.  
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 08:02:17 AM by ghost »
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