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Author Topic: Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi  (Read 40645 times)
Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #560 on: January 15, 2018, 03:48:00 PM

"no bomber heroism by china girl..."   swamp poop

I'm pretty sure this guy is in utter bewilderment why no woman will touch him.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
TheWalrus
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Reply #561 on: January 15, 2018, 03:53:31 PM

Upside, he won't reproduce.

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HaemishM
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Reply #562 on: January 15, 2018, 04:28:20 PM

That's what the roofies are for... DUH.

Surlyboi
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eat a bag of dicks


Reply #563 on: January 15, 2018, 04:45:22 PM

He's too alpha for most women. The roofies are to help her see his brilliance.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
TheWalrus
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Reply #564 on: January 15, 2018, 05:06:17 PM

Gorilla mindset channel?  why so serious?

Paelos: Somebody find that post where I declared Seattle dead, because those fuckers are NFL cockroaches in the NFC.
Teleku
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Reply #565 on: January 15, 2018, 07:00:27 PM

I do accept that every part of this film and the last one would have benefited from a few 'time passes' star wars wipes.

But seriously, she visited the centre of all jedidom. That has to grant a pretty big xp boost. Definitely enough for 'force lift'.
I have zero problems with Rei throwing force around like nothing (she has raw talent or what ever), but wasn't one of the big points of tLJ is that Luke refuses to train her?  Wasn't that one of the things everybody went off about as being 'subversive'?

Like, Luke taught her how to sense things with the force, and then she fell into a hole.  That was about the extent of her training as I recall.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 07:23:03 PM by Teleku »

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Goumindong
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Reply #566 on: January 15, 2018, 07:55:49 PM

Training in the force was never some “level up” type shit. Being able to reach out and feel everything is about all you need and is frankly just about all Yoda gave to Luke. (Luke was there like... a few days... maybe...)

Riggswolfe
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Reply #567 on: January 15, 2018, 08:13:47 PM

Some redpill idiot spent time out of his busy life to make a 'defeminised edit' of TLJ. That version is only 46 minutes long.

Quote
Basically The Last Jedi minus Girlz Powah and other silly stuff.

<snip cringe inducing hatred>


 swamp poop

I literally cannot understand hating women this much. I know the cheap and easy joke is "well, you're not a Republican." But this is...it's just oozing with the author's contempt of women. I mean, he cut out reaction shots with women in them because...too much estrogen or something?

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Teleku
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Reply #568 on: January 15, 2018, 08:17:01 PM

Training in the force was never some “level up” type shit. Being able to reach out and feel everything is about all you need and is frankly just about all Yoda gave to Luke. (Luke was there like... a few days... maybe...)
Rock lifts and military like obstacle course runs seemed pretty important to Yoda's training regime.   awesome, for real

And to be fair, Luke wasn't all that great with the force after that training.  He basically learned just enough to let him make use of some of the powers, thought that meant he could fight Vadar, who promptly kicked the shit out of his untrained ass (just as Yoda predicted would happen since he hadn't finished his training).  Then he went back and trained with Yoda for years until he became a Jedi master, and then kicked Vaders face in.  Mind you, of the many things I didn't like about this movie, Rei's power level is near the bottom.  Though I can understand how for some people its jarring that she has become such a force badass in a way that goes against how the previous 6 movies portrayed what it takes to achieve that.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Riggswolfe
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Reply #569 on: January 15, 2018, 08:29:07 PM

Training in the force was never some “level up” type shit. Being able to reach out and feel everything is about all you need and is frankly just about all Yoda gave to Luke. (Luke was there like... a few days... maybe...)
Rock lifts and military like obstacle course runs seemed pretty important to Yoda's training regime.   awesome, for real

And to be fair, Luke wasn't all that great with the force after that training.  He basically learned just enough to let him make use of some of the powers, thought that meant he could fight Vadar, who promptly kicked the shit out of his untrained ass (just as Yoda predicted would happen since he hadn't finished his training).  Then he went back and trained with Yoda for years until he became a Jedi master, and then kicked Vaders face in.  .

Did you watch the Return of the Jedi? Luke doesn't return to see Yoda until after he rescues Han. And he doesn't really whip Vader's ass, he spends most of the movie retreating from him. Granted, he was hoping to redeem him, not beat him. Still...

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Teleku
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Reply #570 on: January 15, 2018, 08:35:21 PM

I always thought the implication was that he went back and trained with Yoda for a long time between the movies.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Goumindong
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Reply #571 on: January 15, 2018, 08:43:40 PM

I always thought the implication was that he went back and trained with Yoda for a long time between the movies.

No, he goes and rescues Han right away and then he sees Yoda and Yoda is like “I ain’t got shit to teach you”
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Reply #572 on: January 15, 2018, 11:18:07 PM

I always thought the implication was that he went back and trained with Yoda for a long time between the movies.

No, he goes and rescues Han right away and then he sees Yoda and Yoda is like “I ain’t got shit to teach you”

It's generally thought that there was a year between the events in Cloud City and rescuing Han.   Luke wasn't training with Yoda, but he was probably training on his own in that time. He has clearly become better at using the Force between the two films.

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TheWalrus
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Reply #573 on: January 16, 2018, 02:56:53 AM

I thought the show made it fairly obvious that Rey has absurd power with near zero control. It's like the first time you go against a teenage pitcher that suddenly grew an arm. Yeah, dude can throw fast, but he's walking every other batter.

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eldaec
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Reply #574 on: January 16, 2018, 03:25:35 AM

Is Rey a force baddass though?

Force related feats so far...

Mindtricks a stormtrooper
Nifty with a lightsabre
Force grabs lightsabres
Lifts rocks

They already established she was good with a stick on Jakku and anyway none of this is really jedi master level.

The mindtrick threw me in tFA, but if you can mindtrick with no training at all, the rest of this just isn't a big deal.

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Teleku
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Reply #575 on: January 16, 2018, 03:37:46 AM

Well, I sort of always lumped in light saber ability with force power.  Being able to literally deflect bullets and fight at the levels Jedi do is sort of implied that they are channeling force to give them Daredevil like senses and reflexes (also see Luke making a one and a million shot with his tie fighter using force).  Just simply being good with a stick doesn't really gel with defeating the galaxies most powerfull force user, who's spent most of his life specifically training to be a bad ass Jedi, on the first try.  Unless you are a force badass.  Also beat Luke as well (though I guess you can say he was rusty).

Again, mind you, I'm fine with the "she has raw talent" aspect and care very little about that particular complaint (everything else about the movie is what sucked  awesome, for real).  But unless they give some reason in the next movie, it is a bit inconsistent.  
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 03:40:55 AM by Teleku »

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
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Reply #576 on: January 16, 2018, 04:35:49 AM

In ESB, Luke is able to nearly lift his X-Wing out of the swamp when he first meets Yoda. At that point the only training he's had is in ANH for however many days on the Falcon between leaving Tatooine and bumping into the Death Star. It's clear that he only fails to lift the X-Wing because he believes that he can't and not because he needs more practice.

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Reply #577 on: January 16, 2018, 05:54:34 AM

In ESB, Luke is able to nearly lift his X-Wing out of the swamp when he first meets Yoda. At that point the only training he's had is in ANH for however many days on the Falcon between leaving Tatooine and bumping into the Death Star. It's clear that he only fails to lift the X-Wing because he believes that he can't and not because he needs more practice.

Fucking A.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YkbgvRMpW0

He barely gets it to budge. The scene implies that he has a LONG journey ahead of him as he has a lot to learn about the force. Luke Skywalker story is full of failure. Full of moments when he doesn't live up to expectations or can't even do the basics. There is progression, half rushed due to pressing need and mostly haphazard since again nothing about the situation Luke was in was normal even by jedi standards. He really only has 2 moments when he takes a decisive win against the odds between 3 movies. And Anakin, the chosen one, the force imbued jesus-kun only has one real win under his belt, two if you count the beginning of his fall to the dark side with count dooku.

Even my wife a non star wars nerd but a seasoned movie goer links the ability to not cut yourself in half with a light saber with force proficiency. And watching Rey and Jar Jar wield one registered a big wtf when the Force Awakens ended. But even more annoying, these movies would be at least bearable with some attention to what it takes to be a jedi. Its like literally saying Tom Cruise learned how to be a samurai after 2 weeks of being a hobo in a random Japanese village. Its laughably stupid only remotely redeemed by him dying at the end.

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Ironwood
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Reply #578 on: January 16, 2018, 06:06:02 AM

Tom Cruise didn't die in that movie.

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Teleku
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Reply #579 on: January 16, 2018, 06:44:16 AM

I prefer his version.

"My great-grandfather did not travel across four thousand miles of the Atlantic Ocean to see this nation overrun by immigrants.  He did it because he killed a man back in Ireland. That's the rumor."
-Stephen Colbert
Khaldun
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Reply #580 on: January 16, 2018, 06:44:41 AM

Why does Luke fail? Yoda says it in the movie. Because he won't let himself believe in the Force or himself enough.

Not because he hasn't done 10,000 rock lifts. Yoda implies very clearly that lifting the X-Wing is not a matter of training, it's a matter of belief, of total commitment.

Why is Luke able to fight Darth Vader well in the 3rd movie? Because he's totally committed now to the premise that he's going to save his father by reaching the good in him. Not because he spent a year training on Dagobah. Yoda doesn't greet him on his return as if he and Luke have been training extensively since the Cloud City debacle, but as if this is the first time he's seen him since then.

What has Luke discovered in the time between ROTJ and TFA? That it's not about the training--that this was an affectation of the Jedi. In fact, arguably the Jedi may have known it too--that they were using the "you need training" thing as a way to keep Force wielders under their command. The Jedi as we see them in the prequels are dedicated to making sure there are no Force users running around beyond their control--perhaps that's because they think that's how you get new Dark Side wielders.

What's the training for among the Jedi, really? Learning to fight--the warrior piece of it. Which Rey, we've seen, has been doing on her own with her stick-weapon ever since she was left on Jakku. As well as handling the athletics of raiding starship hulks. That part of it shouldn't require any additional explanation--she's basically Lara Croft--she fights, she trains, she goes into dangerous places that are physically challenging.
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Reply #581 on: January 16, 2018, 07:09:28 AM

Fuck you and your rock lifts.

The point of Luke's failure is that he has much more to learn about the force and himself. Its. A. Journey. Its. A. Path. That he takes in order to get to Return of the Jedi. Of course he doesn't believe that force can lift X-wings. Neither does the fucking audience, we come to realize that in completing his training, his self discovery, by attain a degree of discipline he can do those amazing things. How he reaches that is up to the movie to imply or to show. Or even let him fail, as again we don't know if Luke CAN be a jedi and he rushes off to fight darth vader we're given doubt to whether he will ever reach that point.

Fuck sake this concept is in our fucking kid shows. Avatar The Last Airbender has a little gary sue called Aang. He is the best airbender of his generation, a natural born genius and who can learn anything in a fraction of the time of any normal person. Yet even he had to go through a journey, not across the map but personally in order to become the Avatar the story says he can become. In fact the last air bender does a better job at being star wars, than star wars and I'm starting to wonder why their even wasting these actors time producing shyt.

Fuck this Disney bullshit and the clique it claims.

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Reply #582 on: January 16, 2018, 07:46:50 AM

"Please show me the same cookie-cutter version of the same archetypical story with the same archtypical characters that I've seen before because otherwise I don't know how to recognize it."
Riggswolfe
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Reply #583 on: January 16, 2018, 08:56:10 AM

While I get what you all are saying about her lack of a journey, her lack of growth I don't think this is a Star Wars thing. Or even a Disney thing. This is a mordern movies thing.

At some point, most movies gave up on this type of arc. You watch an action movie now, for example, and even if the main character has never touched a gun in their life, in most movies they're a John Wick level bad ass by the time the credits roll. Usually with no explanation given. These days it seems to all be about characters being bad asses with zero effort or really even zero challenge to them. It's why movie fights are increasinly boring to me as time passes. It's very rare to see the main character suffer a setback or even get hurt. It's one reason I loved Atomic Blonde so much. She wins most of her fights but she comes out looking like a person who is held together by pain pills and alcohol.

Also, I just realized, we never see Rey deflect a blaster with her saber. We see her win some fights with it sure, though only the throne room fight really counts. The TFA fight was against Kylo after he'd been shot and was mentally screwed up from killing his dad.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 09:20:37 AM by Riggswolfe »

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #584 on: January 16, 2018, 09:12:47 AM

I would like to hear more about how Real jedi Really work.  Ohhhhh, I see.

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Reply #585 on: January 16, 2018, 09:24:39 AM

Usually 9 to 5, but you can pay extra for after hours support.

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HaemishM
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Reply #586 on: January 16, 2018, 10:24:04 AM

I think that the difference between end of ESB Luke and beginning of RotJ Luke is actually one of the big failings of the original trilogy. There feels like a greater deal of time between the movies than there actually is and Luke is likely much further along as a Jedi at the beginning of RotJ than he should be if training is required. And even in Jabba's palace, his overconfidence in his Jedi badassery backfires and he's captured. However, he also knows he has Lando as backup. He doesn't really become "a Jedi" in the sense of the Jedi Council until the very end when he realizes that he can't beat the Emperor or save his father without surrendering to the whims of the Force. You see the same kind of surrender at the end of TLJ. In that sense, I actually do have very little problem with TLJ's character journey for Luke other than the very clipped, much too short "I sensed Ben had been turned by Snoke and so went to kill him even though the only evidence any of the audience ever has of any of that is because I said so in this one little flashback."

I also don't have a problem with Rey's ability with the Force and never have. I can see people's problems with it, specifically the Mary Sue aspect of her character, but I really don't have a problem with that. It's pretty much established canon that some Force users are quicker studies than others. I mean, one of the reasons Qui-Gon took Anakin in the first place wasn't just the midichlorians, he distinctly felt something about the kid before he ever tested him (so if you retcon out Midichlorians for mercy's sake, there's still a reason to save Anakin). And clearly the Phantom Menace led you to believe that Anakin's amazing flying abilities in the pod race and "luck of the draw" destruction of the main ship at the end was an unconscious use of the Force (or the Force working through him if you are so inclined).

TLJ's problems are way above and beyond whether Force users are immediate badasses or require unlocking holocrons.

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Reply #587 on: January 16, 2018, 10:26:51 AM

In ESB, Luke is able to nearly lift his X-Wing out of the swamp when he first meets Yoda. At that point the only training he's had is in ANH for however many days on the Falcon between leaving Tatooine and bumping into the Death Star. It's clear that he only fails to lift the X-Wing because he believes that he can't and not because he needs more practice.

Exactly. Getting Luke to believe in "magic" is the majority of his training. Rey already believes, she's grown up believing.

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #588 on: January 16, 2018, 10:37:07 AM

I love the mary sue thing comes up so much with rey as though it's somehow a new concept or that it's even an extreme example of it.  Who would you pick for top mary sue characters in film?

Off the top of my head tony stark gets a big nod.  Just saying "he's a genius" is not a great excuse for bending every law of physics and building a nuclear heart and walking robot body from spare parts in a cave with a forge.  Every Iron man movie had something just magic'd up by tony because the plot demanded it with no hint of explanation beyond "of course he can, he's smart" and we don't even see WHY he's smart, there's zero explanation given or any kind of backstory shown about him.

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HaemishM
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Reply #589 on: January 16, 2018, 10:41:45 AM

I don't consider Tony Stark a Mary Sue simply because his flaws are SO prominent in his character, and despite the fact that yeah, he can super science up some bullshit for just about anything, much of the time that blows up in his face. Ultron anyone?

That dumb bitch from Fifty Shades? Mary Sue. The lead from Twilight? Mary Sue.

Rey isn't even close because sure, she's survived but what has it won her?

Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #590 on: January 16, 2018, 10:54:26 AM

I'll grant you he has character flaws but literally nothing stark does negatively impacted him.  He's still with pepper and even after ultron goes on a killing spree across the world(wait, I think ultron only fucks up that one city in the movie, they really fucked that villain over) tony gets a slap on the wrist.  stark comes out of every situation smelling like a fresh bed of roses, even the whole alchoholic thing is hand-waved off after the first movie. 

Also I veto twilight and 50 shades as they are just both terrible and written by insane people.

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Reply #591 on: January 16, 2018, 11:13:15 AM

I don't consider Tony Stark a Mary Sue simply because his flaws are SO prominent in his character, and despite the fact that yeah, he can super science up some bullshit for just about anything, much of the time that blows up in his face. Ultron anyone?

That dumb bitch from Fifty Shades? Mary Sue. The lead from Twilight? Mary Sue.

Rey isn't even close because sure, she's survived but what has it won her?

the best ship in the galaxy
the best force usee in the galaxy
defecto symbol of the resistance
2 hot guys pining after her
the best weapon in the galaxy
the founding textbooms of the jedi order

she has more in common with the girl from books like twilight and hunger games. wish fulfilment power fantasy for a  audiences who wants power and adjacency without any of the actual consequences or work required. you can probably sub rey in for bella not miss a beat.

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HaemishM
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Reply #592 on: January 16, 2018, 11:46:10 AM

I'll grant you he has character flaws but literally nothing stark does negatively impacted him.  He's still with pepper and even after ultron goes on a killing spree across the world(wait, I think ultron only fucks up that one city in the movie, they really fucked that villain over) tony gets a slap on the wrist. 

Actually, he specifically says in Civil War that Pepper and him are done. That one destroyed city actually led to the Sokovia accords, which required him and all super-powered people to register. That also led to his very public and painful falling out with Steve Rogers, which led to Rhodey getting shot out of the sky and paralyzed.

Sure, he wasn't the one getting jailed, or having his back broken. But you can't say those things haven't negatively impacted him.

Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #593 on: January 16, 2018, 12:01:30 PM

Are people taking crazy pills?

the best ship in the galaxy -  It's not
the best force usee in the galaxy - snoke hands her ass to her so no
defecto symbol of the resistance - leia doesn't seem to give a shit about rey in fact finn seems to be the only one making her a priority
2 hot guys pining after her - two males  showing interest in a hot girl? stop the fucking presses.
the best weapon in the galaxy -  It's not
the founding textbooms of the jedi order - She stole them from Luke who found them but we better just get on Frodo's ass too about just happened to 'find' the one ring in his uncle's fucking living room.

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Reply #594 on: January 16, 2018, 12:18:30 PM

Are people taking crazy pills?

the best ship in the galaxy -  It's not
the best force usee in the galaxy - snoke hands her ass to her so no
defecto symbol of the resistance - leia doesn't seem to give a shit about rey in fact finn seems to be the only one making her a priority
2 hot guys pining after her - two males  showing interest in a hot girl? stop the fucking presses.
the best weapon in the galaxy -  It's not
the founding textbooms of the jedi order - She stole them from Luke who found them but we better just get on Frodo's ass too about just happened to 'find' the one ring in his uncle's fucking living room.

The only thing I'm going to respond to you with is;

Snokes dead. Killed by Ben. Rey is stronger than Ben Solo by a factor of a lot. Go back to dry humping to the corpse of this franchise.

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