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Author Topic: Westworld  (Read 31152 times)
Miguel
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कुशल


Reply #350 on: June 25, 2018, 01:31:01 AM

Wow.

“We have competent people thinking about this stuff. We’re not just making shit up.” -Neil deGrasse Tyson
Quinton
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Reply #351 on: June 25, 2018, 03:09:01 AM

All along it's been setup for season three.  I love it.

The Real WestWorld Starts Here.
Comstar
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Reply #352 on: June 25, 2018, 04:12:18 AM

So what happened? I am tired of shows drip feeding answers to things some of the characters clearly know but won't explain because reasons.

Defending the Galaxy, from the Scum of the Universe, with nothing but a flashlight and a tshirt. We need tanks Boo, lots of tanks!
Brolan
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Reply #353 on: June 25, 2018, 07:08:37 AM

Well it seems Dolores is a super villain planning on killing the human race, Bernard is the hero trying stop her.  William is a Delos-like clone host that isn’t quite right.
MahrinSkel
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When she crossed over, she was just a ship. But when she came back... she was bullshit!


Reply #354 on: June 25, 2018, 09:03:07 AM

So what happened? I am tired of shows drip feeding answers to things some of the characters clearly know but won't explain because reasons.
Arnold's inner monologue has an unreliable narrator.

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HaemishM
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Reply #355 on: June 25, 2018, 11:36:51 AM

Yeah, I'm in the "wow, what the fuck just happened?" camp. I have no idea how they fuck season 3 is going to go, but you can bet I'll be there. I wasn't quite sold on it until the scene with William. And then I was like "OH I GOTS TO SEE THIS SHIT."

Velorath
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Reply #356 on: June 25, 2018, 11:44:01 AM

Right now it doesn't sound like that end scene with William will really be addressed next season as it takes place farther in the future (which is why everything looks the way it does), and they said specifically already that Season 3 won't go that far. My take away from that scene is just that there is going to be a host version of him doomed to relive what he's done over and over, never capable of making a choice to do things differently.
Phildo
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Reply #357 on: June 25, 2018, 12:28:03 PM

I learned there was an after-credits scene from the internet while trying to figure out what the hell was going on at the end.  HBO GO kicked us out before we got to it.  Still, I find myself pretty uninterested in continuing with the show.
Abagadro
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Reply #358 on: June 25, 2018, 10:05:36 PM

All along it's been setup for season three.  I love it.

The Real WestWorld Starts Here.

That's what they said last season. What a load of horseshit this whole season was. Absolute dreck that went nowhere, made no sense, and was not even internally consistent. Bleh.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
Tebonas
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Reply #359 on: June 26, 2018, 01:20:37 AM

I'm torn on the finale. On a pure visceral level I liked it. But when you start thinking about it it falls apart frightingly fast. Senseless sacrifices that were put in there just to pull on our heartstrings, and are meaningless anyway because of suddenly bulletproof Hostbrains and the Forge giving us the opportunity to resurrect both guests and hosts (as seen with William and further hinted at with the marbels in Charlottes handbag). The pulling out secret hosts at the last minute shtick gets tiresome as well.

Nolan and Joy got lost in their own cleverness and their drive to surprise people who spoil themself. Its telling that the only superb episode of the season was the one with linear storytelling where you could follow the plot without brain acrobatics or explanations by the creators (Kiksuya).
Abagadro
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Reply #360 on: June 26, 2018, 01:33:23 AM

Can’t wait for Delores Lehnsherr and Charles Xavier Bernard next season.  Feh.

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

-H.L. Mencken
eldaec
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Reply #361 on: June 26, 2018, 03:02:08 AM

Liked Dolores and Bernard, wasn't so keen on the Maeve/Clem/Door ending.

The bulls were cool. But at the door I couldn't suspend belief as to why the humans didn't shoot everyone with guns - or notice that the hosts were diving off a cliff so who cares. Unlike in most of the season the hosts were no threat - so it felt like a lot of fuss for a few dozen robots that were in the process of shutting down. It also bothered me that the hosts were unaware of the choice they were making which undermined Bernard and Dolores discussion.

The post credit scene I'm mixed on. I couldn't help thinking that using simulated junior William, Logan, or Ford would have been a better choice than Emily.

Anyway, episode 9 had enough awesome to pay off the whole season - so I'll certainly be in for the third.

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SurfD
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Reply #362 on: June 30, 2018, 02:10:36 AM

Which is why I'm leaning more toward the "William's game is happening in the Forge" theory.  There's only so much fakery you can pull off with host bodies -- maybe you can fool scanners, but you can't fool a Bowie knife.
I am not so sure about that.  You saw the skeleton Bernard was laying out when he "rebuilt" Delores, and we know from the closet full of decommissioned Bernards as well as numerous other shots of hosts as well as the whole "park has been operational for 30+ years" thing that there has been a LOT of iteration on host design.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if most recent generation host bodies could likely fool everything short of a full on autopsy / xray scan.  For all we know, latest gen hosts might not even have hardwire ports, and could be entirely wireless pairing.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 02:20:26 AM by SurfD »

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SurfD
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Reply #363 on: June 30, 2018, 02:19:43 AM

Liked Dolores and Bernard, wasn't so keen on the Maeve/Clem/Door ending.

The bulls were cool. But at the door I couldn't suspend belief as to why the humans didn't shoot everyone with guns - or notice that the hosts were diving off a cliff so who cares. Unlike in most of the season the hosts were no threat - so it felt like a lot of fuss for a few dozen robots that were in the process of shutting down. It also bothered me that the hosts were unaware of the choice they were making which undermined Bernard and Dolores discussion.
I imagine it has to do with several things:
The humans didn't shoot everyone because there weren't enough humans, and as previously shown, the hosts had a rather effective ability to fight back. Clem was their answer to the "rogue host" problem.  Basically a walking infectious viral outbreak that caused hosts in proximity to her to start killing each other.
Saying the hosts were no threat is severely downplaying pretty much everything that happened in the season.   I mean, from the human perspective, every single host in the park is a threat from the instant Fords new narrative kicked off to start the season until every last one of them is found and dealt with.  It doesn't get more threatening than self aware killer robots.
As to the hosts throwing themselves off the cliff: humans fear the unknown / unexplained.  With all the strange behavior already going on with the hosts, you can be damn sure that the hosts seeming to commit mass suicide would be strange enough a phenomenon to have the humans concerned as to why exactly they were doing it.

Darwinism is the Gateway Science.
eldaec
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Reply #364 on: July 01, 2018, 07:38:17 AM

I can buy the idea that humans thought it was a threat and didn't understand that the hosts were suiciding to respawn elsewhere.

But I'm saying it didn't make good television because they weren't a threat and the only stakes were whether one unremarkable host made it over the line.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
lamaros
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Reply #365 on: July 23, 2018, 11:00:11 PM

This whole season was pretty average. A few of you who seem excited are going to get "Lost" with those expectations.

Ignoring the overall plot though, episodes 8 and 9 I thought were very well done. 8 especially.

On the other hand, the whole Shogun world stuff was complete drek. As was Neo-maeve generally.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 11:07:56 PM by lamaros »

Expect poison from the standing water.
Samwise
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Reply #366 on: July 24, 2018, 12:50:18 PM

Episode 8 was the one that made me say "okay, they're not just pulling a Lost here".  Because it would have been pretty easy for them to just leave the Indians as a mystical mystery box that never got opened, and instead they actually explained exactly what their deal was in a single satisfying episode.  It was great.

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eldaec
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Reply #367 on: July 24, 2018, 01:09:37 PM

The difference is that most of the time arbitrary plot twists here serve character, theme and watchable performances.

Whereas lost is just bullshit plot for its own sake.

Totally accept that the central 'delos are copying people' thing makes no particular sense. But I don't mind because that wasn't the answer to a stupid mystery, it was just premise. And premise that has opened up worthwhile content.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
lamaros
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Reply #368 on: July 24, 2018, 07:22:16 PM

Disclamer: I've never watched Lost, just used to term to mean unreasonable expctations.

The difference is that most of the time arbitrary plot twists here serve character, theme and watchable performances.

I didn't feel this really to be true for a lot of this season. I felt that outside of Bernard the rest were just killing time. There were some small moments of humor or well deliverd lines, but nothing that added. Maeve and Dolores were lessened by the season for me, not developed.


Expect poison from the standing water.
Khaldun
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Reply #369 on: July 24, 2018, 07:27:24 PM

I don't understand why the idea that Delos are looking for a system to test the fidelity of minds copied into constructed bodies makes no sense. It makes good sense to me--it's exactly what weird oligarchs like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel are hunting right now in the real world, a way to live forever. I think most of them don't want to live forever as virtual simulations, they want to have their minds uploaded and then downloaded into flesh. So Westworld's deep premise is that this turns out to be really hard to accomplish.
lamaros
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Reply #370 on: July 24, 2018, 07:37:38 PM

I don't understand why the idea that Delos are looking for a system to test the fidelity of minds copied into constructed bodies makes no sense. It makes good sense to me--it's exactly what weird oligarchs like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel are hunting right now in the real world, a way to live forever. I think most of them don't want to live forever as virtual simulations, they want to have their minds uploaded and then downloaded into flesh. So Westworld's deep premise is that this turns out to be really hard to accomplish.

Yeah I have no problem with that at all.

Expect poison from the standing water.
Wasted
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Reply #371 on: July 24, 2018, 08:22:32 PM

I always had the idea in the back of my mind that they might be copying people to replace their incredibly rich and influential customers with almost flawless replicas programmed to acquiesce to Delos as needed.
Khaldun
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Reply #372 on: July 24, 2018, 09:18:12 PM

Delos already seems to have all the acquiescence they need--this is clearly a world ruled by bored sybaritic oligarchs.
eldaec
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Reply #373 on: July 25, 2018, 02:47:58 AM

Delos is presented as entirely money driven, but there is no particular plan to make money with this, and if it is there it is far too long term to interest Delos as presented.

William has a line which could come straight from the underpants elves.

"If you can't see how seeing what people really are is profitable, you aren't the business man I thought" or something like that.

BUT I AM OK WITH THIS

I just see the project as William's weird obsession that grew out of his MMORPG addiction, and the Delos family as a victim of William's manipulation. Emily seems to take more or less the same view. It isn't very convincing, but ok because it is premise not plot.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Khaldun
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Reply #374 on: July 25, 2018, 08:06:29 AM

William is just scamming the old man with that line, I thought. Maybe even with the "you'll be immortal" schtick. Fundamentally I think what we're told is true: William wants to know if he can make a choice, if he has free will, or if he's just an algorithm.

I don't know what to do with the post-credits, though. Either it's a trick on him and therefore means nothing (e.g., his daughter or someone else is out to torment him specifically) or it means everything we've seen is a lie, which will be very stupid if they mean it.
lamaros
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Reply #375 on: July 25, 2018, 09:41:33 AM

The world outside the park is painted very thin. Delos is everything it's needed to be all the way along.

If you try to break any of it down it all falls apart. It's not the point, so I don't care.

It's a MMORPG delivery system for literary quotes and philosophy. I'm fine with that. I just wish they cut out all the bullshit with Dolores and Maeve which was bad drama and not the core fascination. Dolores fucking up Teddy was the only interesting thing that came from that.

Expect poison from the standing water.
eldaec
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Reply #376 on: July 25, 2018, 11:16:06 AM

I took everyone post credits to be an android and the point of the scene being to say 'Ed Harris in in season 3'.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Khaldun
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Reply #377 on: July 25, 2018, 01:24:42 PM

Could be. Maybe William becomes the test of whether a human becomes able to make a choice if he's downloaded into a host body.
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