Legion Pre-Expansion Patch Hits - everything changes

[Setanta]

I dislike that the mic controls affect the system settings eather than the in-app settings.

I'd like an opt-out option for it because I have no use for it.

Other than that, I can see how some wouldn't want to use Vent, Skype etc and that this would be their go-to.

[Paelos]

I unsubbed yesterday. I've got another month and I may purchase some months after that with gold, but the endgame is trash, as has been said. They really really need to do a better job of quarterly content updates, but they never will. It's something that the Final Fantasy MMOs excelled at while everyone else in the game can't seem to figure it out.

[Setanta]

Tried to get into Mythic dungeons as DPS so that I could learn the 2 unknown dungeons and tank them. After 25 minutes of hitting refresh and not getting into groups I gave up and switched the game off.

Would it really have hurt to make it the auto groupfinder tiered to keys? Particularly as 2-3 questlines require mythics... not to mention some follower rewards.

Just one more endgame fail - I'm starting to think this is WoD all over again, just in a different way. Great leveling experience (but lack of alt-friendliness through AP/AK demands) but nothing there afterwards.

[Azuredream]

They definitely need a separate category in the Group Finder for Mythic+. They should also add the ability to filter out groups that, for example, are full on DPS. Their Group Finder tool is seeing more use now than it ever has, I think, and they have not caught up in improving the interface for it.

The problem with being a DPS right now and especially a DPS with lower ilevel is that there are going to be higher ilevel DPS applying for the same thing you are and the group is just gonna take the one with the higher number.

[lesion]

Realistically nobody wants to waste time failing on a mythic+ run because you're locked in once you start.

Whenever I do mythic(+) I run as a tank with a healer and dps, and I generally try to take lower-end ilvl because I'm biased against high ilvl people being dicks. I will always, always take anyone with a creative comment in their group application because I like to have fun.

[Setanta]

I found out why I couldn't get in.

First comment was DPS warrior... lol
Second comment was fury warrior... lol

I get it, even in 849 I fall behind Shaman and WW monks... in fact almost all classes. Sadly I didn't know that when I started the xpac and it's my go to tank/dps class.

I invested just enough AP into my tanking artifact to make it viable and concentrated on the fury artifact, nothing in the arms one.

I'm not going to grind through another toon, seriously AP and AK are pathetic in their implementation and just another example of blizzard cock-blocking.

The irony? I gave up on enhance shaman last expansion and moved to warrior main.

[Azuredream]

Yeah they definitely could tweak some specs, Fury Warrior top amongst them. But Blizzard never gets class balance right.

[Zetor]

It's kinda telling that my dps went from 150k to 230+k when I switched from elemental to enhance for my first mythic... despite having a level 19 elemental artifact and a level 3 enhancement one (it didn't even have an iron relic). This considering I haven't played enhance since very early BC - have exclusively play ed ele/resto since then - so I was probably fucking up the rotation pretty bad.

The 7.1 QOL changes for ele are nice, but they won't be enough to fill the gap. I can at least, uh, spam chain lightning and earthquake on trash really well? Go team!

[Paelos]

Realistically nobody wants to waste time failing on a mythic+ run because you're locked in once you start.

Whenever I do mythic(+) I run as a tank with a healer and dps, and I generally try to take lower-end ilvl because I'm biased against high ilvl people being dicks. I will always, always take anyone with a creative comment in their group application because I like to have fun.

And that's the problem with mythics in general. They've fucked up everything by having them on lockouts. If you have them on normal dungeon mechanics, it's all fine. Now I'm playing shadow games with my friend trying to figure out how to get into these things without creating little cliques. It's pissing me off so I don't bother with them.

It also infuriates me that Karazhan is a 5-man now and on the same system. It should be a raid. It should have an option in LFR or group finder. It's fucking nonsense.

[lesion]

They've fucked up everything by having them on lockouts. If you have them on normal dungeon mechanics, it's all fine.

A thousand times yes. With the gold-for-sub now it really doesn't make sense to gate dungeons.

If anyone is looking for 5-man spots Alliance side (because my friends are chumps) add itsgoor#1403

[Ginaz]

I got my first legendary tonight while on my hunter...for my surv off spec.   To top it off, it was pretty shit, too.  Boots that give you 15 energy when a trap is triggered.   Note to self, always open emissary chests in my main spec.

[Paelos]

They've fucked up everything by having them on lockouts. If you have them on normal dungeon mechanics, it's all fine.

A thousand times yes. With the gold-for-sub now it really doesn't make sense to gate dungeons.

If anyone is looking for 5-man spots Alliance side (because my friends are chumps) add itsgoor#1403

It makes no sense to gate dungeons. Yes, you can gate Mythic plus. I get that, and it's fine. But are we really worried about people running dungeons over and over to get 840 items? I get more of those off world quests.

[Rokal]

I got my first legendary tonight while on my hunter...for my surv off spec.  To top it off, it was pretty shit, too.  Boots that give you 15 energy when a trap is triggered.  Note to self, always open emissary chests in my main spec.

You can set your loot spec without actually changing to the spec by right-clicking your character portrait.

Still having a bad time with legendaries myself. I would like to have the freedom to change my loot specs around to get some DPS trinkets or help out guildies that are trying to get something specific that would be on my loot table, but I can't without fear that I'll end up getting my "bad luck prevention" legendary at that time and will have screwed my main spec for x months.

[ynotgolf]

I have a hard time believing it really matters what spec you're in, or what loot spec you have designated.  My main is a resto druid, finally had a legendary pop in my bags while healing Normal Emerald Nightmare....

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/item/132452

Fuck my luck, I mean, is this Blizzard's way of telling me I should be PVP'ing?  

Argh.

[Merusk]

Never got a legendary. I suspect I wouldn't get one even with their BS "catch up" code, which I belive isn't there just a statement made to mollify those who haven't found one yet.

If I can't see the number, it doesn't exist.

[Khaldun]

I found one pretty early in doing World Quests--one of the purple world bosses dropped it. It's the rogue wrists, not very good.

[Paelos]

I don't think many of the legendaries are good. For a prot warrior you have Gloves that increase your damage (meh), a chest that helps you with shields on you and your intercepted ally (fine but you shouldn't be losing threat on raid targets), a belt which reduced demoralizing shout cooldown every thunderclap (good for multitanking, shit for everything else), and then the decent one with wrists that provide self healing per rage spent, and the best one which is a ring that reduces the cooldown on shield wall with every shield slam (which you use constantly).

So yeah, 1 of 5 is great, 1 is ok, and the other 3 I find to be mostly situational at best if not outright disappointing.

[Merusk]

The unholy DK ones are pretty nice. Rune refreshes, Additional burst damage chance, empowering more than just our ghoul, AMS gives a heal off of damage absorbed.  All pretty nice stuff.

[Khaldun]

One of the other rogue ones is just overtly shit, almost incomprehensibly so. This feels like another small thing that they got wrong.

[Setanta]

My prot warrior OS felt like a wet noodle last night... the I read about the IP nerf.

Was it not bad enough that getting rage is pure hell?

unsubbed.

[Xanthippe]

I have played WoW an embarrassing amount since Legion launched, and still have no legendary. (Today is the first day I haven't played, in fact.)

I still like this expansion more than any since Wrath, but  I am struggling to understand how it could have gone live with all of the balance problems for the different classes. Some are just wildly OP and others are not only weak but not fun to play. OP and unfun is an ok combination, but weak and unfun is not.

I now have priest, druid, hunter and warlock at 110, although I mostly play priest. I don't really have a favorite, particularly - none seem really really fun, just adequate or inadequate. I am building AR on the inadequate alts in hopes the classes get fixed at some point.

I'm just not really digging healing this time around. Disc is hard to get used to with the changes, and holy has never been my thing. Resto is ok but I'm just not enjoying it a lot.

I experienced the unfun of being rejected for mythics on my hunter for Kara attunement, who had very low ilvl (830ish to start), then my guild took me along so I could get that done. I also don't understand why base Mythics cannot be in LFG. I have not yet done Kara - I prefer to do dungeons after I know what to expect rather than try to figure it out in the now.

Meanwhile, I'm good at leveling alts. Still haven't gotten the fishing artifact, and haven't really spent much time with the auction house, professions are bleh although the 7.1 change of crafted items going up to 855 is nice - but that's 8 obliterums to get there.

Monk is next. Leveling as WW but not fond of it. Maybe I'll switch it over to MW to see if I like healing like that better.

I have WoW ADD.

[Khaldun]

Mythics that are not keyed should absolutely use the standard LFG setup. If you look in Premades, that's what people *are* doing, only with an extra touch of assholery on the side. There's only a few mechanics in the base Mythics where a clueless DPS can wipe the party through repeated stupidity or cost the group the DPS for most of a fight. If folks are patient enough to just say, "Ok, you have to X", they save themselves the time of a death or a wipe. The Premade tool is essentially churning at fantastically fast rates because it's being used as a substitute LFG, which it is not designed for.

Keys I completely see why people want to be selective about, and the same even for normal raiding, considering that LFR is just a giant zerg fest.

[Xanthippe]

The 7.1 patch is really buggy, with some major issues for many people. Among them, zoning taking either too long or never completing, people not getting credit for killing bosses, and a lot of minor stuff. It's as though they took out their A team, and put in their C team.

The most amusing bug I've found is getting a rbg win item Potato Stew Feast, a group feast that bestows a 10% stamina gain, and is "Only usable in Battlegrounds." Except when I try to use it, it says "cannot be used in a pvp area."

At any rate, balance is really off between the classes, and doesn't seem to be getting better. There seems to be a change in philosophy by the devs. In this thread a player wonders if the game is for the devs or the customers.  Orynx, the community manager, responds with this:

Game design is most definitely an art, and the artist is the one in control of their own hand.

One of Blizzard's oldest philosophies has been to build worlds and games that we ourselves love, and, only then, inviting players to join us on adventures within. This doesn't mean we don't care or listen, it just means that we do disagree at a philosophical level about some things that players may not like.

Everyone who has worked on Legion has put tons of love and sweat into building this expansion. We are most definitely working on making Legion the best expansion WoW has seen - and I think that will show over the coming months.

As you can imagine, that statement did not go over well. A few other blues jumped in with comments about how people may have "twisted" Orrnyx's words, and when thread was full it was locked and not continued.

[Merusk]

Hah.. I imagine Ornyx got a talking-to about messaging later that afternoon. I get what he was trying to say but he did it in almost the worst way imaginable.

Funny that class balance is still fucked. That was pointed out at launch and they said they'd make the first series of passes in 7.1 then evaluate from there. Did that not happen?

[Setanta]

Of course it was... they triple nerfed warriors so far.

You know, the weakest DPS. It's like being a shaman or druid all over again.

Fuck their art form - just make it fun.

[Merusk]

But it IS Fun! For them. Didn't you see the statement above? It's how they design!

Of course that also means that if you don't find their version of fun as fun you're fucked. Might be nice if they were to release a vision statement of what they consider fun so you could consider purchase before a months-long investment let you decide it wasn't for you. That ain't happening, though.

The more naive/ cynical part would also comment that if the devs suck at their game they'd also be likely to nerf classes who achieved beyond their pet class. I'm old enough I don't see that happening in a multi-million dollar company with so many heads anymore. It's just a lack of greater vision and myopic data evaluation at this point.

"How are warriors performing in this metric at the top 2%? Right there? Awesome. No, I don't care about over-alls. Those players just suck/ have to gear-up/ L2P/ aren't important." Or "Well they can't be THAT bad there's still a billion of them. When they stop being played we'll address it but there's clearly something compelling enough they're good where they're at for now."

That's been the Blizzard flaw in WoW design for a long time.

[Paelos]

I mostly quit playing. I saw what was coming in the patch and thought, okay you've already nerfed my warrior to the ground as a tank, now you're putting in bugs to top all this? The mythic lockout thing has ruined endgame for me. I'm not going to go through some fucked up half-LFG workaround just to play the game. It's the exact opposite of what dungeons are supposed to be about. They are supposed to be fast and fun. Raids are supposed to be where you pound your dick with a hammer for weeks putting together rosters and managing lockouts.

[Setanta]

Guild Wars 2 Fractals would beg to differ. Yet Fractals did it right - including a LFG that worked and a non-bullshit "key system" (Fractals ranking you up).

For an expansion that had so much promise and no garrisons, they fucked it right up.

[Nebu]

I mostly quit playing.

I'm losing my desire to play after one week.  I had 3 friends convince me to come back for this expansion.  They were very excited about the more 'casual' nature of gearing.  After a week, I'm finding it to be the same as always.  I'll probably dabble for another week or two, but will definitely not sub for another month.  I'm pretty let down by the whole experience.  Balance issues plague this expansion.

[Paelos]

There is no balance. They've made it so that you have one viable thing your class should be doing, and if you're doing anything else you're stupid.

[Nebu]

There is no balance. They've made it so that you have one viable thing your class should be doing, and if you're doing anything else you're stupid.

I think I chose well.  I played a priest this expansion.  So far, Holy and Shadow seem viable for all but the most hardcore progression guilds.  I'm wanting to see if I make make discipline work since it is the most fun... and since I don't care about much other than 5 man content.

[Merusk]

Disciple e won't work until higher gear levels if at all.  Someone on the design team was seriously pissed at discipline heal sniping with. Uh Lee for the last two expansions. They kicked it hard.  At least you can do dps and heal, it's just not a spec for high end stuff like it was

[Xanthippe]

You can do heroics as a disc priest, and mythics in a group that knows the mechanics, but definitely not as effortless as holy, and you'll want to be overgeared for randoms.

I like soloing as a disc priest, especially when some dumb rogue tries to gank me, because they're pretty ungankable 1x1, and even morex1 if they're bad.

Disc is a lot of fun in pvp unless you're the only healer and then you just spend your time being focused to death.

I think that disc needs a boost, though, for pve - should make it easier to apply atonement and make it last longer, or they should boost dps and healing.

I have hardly played holy or shadow, not enough to get them down pat. I've played shadow the least. Disc is my favorite, but it needs something.

On another note - I got the fishing artifact, the Underlight Angler. Also there is a new hidden faction with a mount, falcosaurs - picked up 2 new pets doing WQs. There is a lot for casuals to do, if you like pet battling, fishing, archaeology, and leveling alts (which I do). It's frustrating though if you want to run mythics and aren't a tank or healer, and don't have a guild/regular group to do it with.

[Setanta]

While I appreciate all of that - why should I bother given that they have gated out content again and not addressed the issue of my main class?

Leveling alts just isn't the answer for me and repetition is repetition.

Blizzard need to get its shit together and get the hell over the casual vs hardcore/PvE vs PvP bullshit.

[Khaldun]

I don't really understand why that's so hard for them to grasp. The hardcores don't have anything *else* to jump to now anyway. Give them one raid that's crazy-shit hard and a couple of special doodads tied to it. Then put the rest of your effort building a very long and enjoyable treadmill for the casuals. I should not be gritting my teeth trying to get into a mythic in order to have anything much to do, or playing just the one or two nights a week when the remaining six or seven people in our guild of busy professionals can all get online at the same time.