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Author Topic: Eternal - Luis Scott-Vargas makes Hearthstone: The Gathering  (Read 5101 times)
Setanta
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Reply #35 on: October 29, 2017, 02:49:13 PM

Much better Hearthstone than Hearthstone ever was.

The  way in which they throw free packs at you is great, the mechanics work really well and the screw/flood isn't too bad at all. The PvE campaigns are great and the PvP is good at casual level (all I've done so far). Forge is a lot of fun as is Gauntlet.

I bought the Jekk's expansion - all of a sudden it got tough!

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
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Reply #36 on: October 29, 2017, 03:18:31 PM

Why did they have to go and fuck with the Gauntlet payouts?  My draft habit is too expensive!

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #37 on: October 30, 2017, 02:27:25 AM

Why did they have to go and fuck with the Gauntlet payouts?  My draft habit is too expensive!

If you win 7, no nerf for that reward.

Yeah, not a wise move on their part. On Discord, one of the developers popped in & said they wanted to incentivize PvP and that too many players were doing single player (they bumped slightly the Ranked rewards and gave a nice boost to Casual rewards). The bonus to Ranked wins is not in evidence until your 13th win of the day (you get a pack on your 1st win, a small chest for subsequent wins & a chest that nets you 200+ gold and an Uncommon on 4th, 7th, 10th wins that also has a small chance of upgrading to a bigger chest).

Haven't hardly touched Hearthstone since discovering this -- though Ranked probably is one of my least favorite modes -- not that I don't like Constructed play, the Ranked format that these games have just replicated from RTS/MOBA makes it a grind & incentivizes aggro decks, even though, in this game, they're not as dominant as in Hearthstone, where aggro rules. Still, *games per hour* means even a slightly less win % is better in the long term. Contrast to tournament mode decks, where best of 3 (or best of 5 in finals, or even later rounds) where you bring a Sideboard (just like MtG) and can swap out cards after game 1 (or game 2 in bo5). There it mostly midrange decks, but control decks too, and aggro least present.

Still, aggro decks if they draw the nuts still can close out games quick, no matter.

I believe early on, it was best of 3 on ladder but queue times were so long, that got scrapped.

My favorite modes are Draft (which I'm not that great at, but improving) and the Events they have, once or twice a month -- there, you bring a constructed deck and play like Draft mode, until you win 7 or lose 3. You get rewards for each run and even for your Leaderboard rank after 1st *N* runs. Most of these feature a special rules wrinkle (this weekend, "Midnight Ride", you start with 31 Health, and at start of turns 7 & 13, you put a Pale Rider, a 4/4 Unit with a random combat ability into play) like you see in game 7 of Gauntlet or even more interesting. There was one a few weeks ago after campaign where there was no special rule. This weekend, your 1st 5 runs count for Leaderboard rank and there are a progression of rewards.

Legendaries (not all, but a lot of them) are OP, but I don't mind that -- Legendary cards should be OP IMV. But there are budget decks that have been piloted into Master rank too.

"We offered players a Camelot. We immediately discovered players wanted to smear shit all over the walls, create giant penises out of whatever was available, rape, rob and kill their fellow players and anything else not given invulnerability while making the teabag emote over their corpses and generally be utter and complete cunts. So we dialed it back a little." ~HaemishM
Nebu
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Reply #38 on: October 30, 2017, 08:49:00 AM

If you win 7, no nerf for that reward.

Winning 7 seems almost random since they don't allow you to adjust your deck to the conditions of the match.

I want to play Draft almost exclusively and was grinding gauntlet to fund it.  Now, you pretty much have to grind for 2-3 hours to make enough to play one draft.  While I understand that this is their incentive to buy gems, it's really a bit to overt to make me spend money.  I'm more likely to just quit the game and go back to Hearthstone where I can infinite in Arena.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #39 on: October 30, 2017, 08:50:41 AM

well

welcome to ccgs? they cost money

not sure what to tell you on that one
Hoax
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Reply #40 on: October 30, 2017, 07:47:57 PM

What didn't work for me is that unlike Weebstone(Shadowverse) the state of play is super stale, there just isn't enough new cards or card changes going on. That and getting into constructed in Eternal is so much slower than HS or SV. So. Much. Slower. I was playing it for dailies and the like but I wasn't progressing at all in terms of collection and nobody was playing anything that was new because nothing new comes out.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Nebu
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Reply #41 on: October 30, 2017, 08:17:25 PM

well

welcome to ccgs? they cost money

not sure what to tell you on that one

I'm fairly certain I was playing Magic before you even heard of it.  I know all about ccgs.  I just didn't happen to like this particular change. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

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Reply #42 on: October 30, 2017, 08:39:45 PM

well

welcome to ccgs? they cost money

not sure what to tell you on that one

I'm fairly certain I was playing Magic before you even heard of it.  I know all about ccgs.  I just didn't happen to like this particular change.  
That would be literally impossible unless you were playing at 1993 gencon (before it's existence was publicised to the rest of the world).
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Reply #43 on: October 31, 2017, 12:43:00 PM

What didn't work for me is that unlike Weebstone(Shadowverse) the state of play is super stale, there just isn't enough new cards or card changes going on. That and getting into constructed in Eternal is so much slower than HS or SV. So. Much. Slower. I was playing it for dailies and the like but I wasn't progressing at all in terms of collection and nobody was playing anything that was new because nothing new comes out.

I've only been playing the game for a month but in that time I've seen a release of a new campaign and ~25 new cards & a promo card cut a few weeks ago. There was a major set release in July & another set coming out by end of year.

Plus periodic balance changes and one coming this week, probably addressing this card that warped the meta.


"We offered players a Camelot. We immediately discovered players wanted to smear shit all over the walls, create giant penises out of whatever was available, rape, rob and kill their fellow players and anything else not given invulnerability while making the teabag emote over their corpses and generally be utter and complete cunts. So we dialed it back a little." ~HaemishM
Nebu
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Reply #44 on: October 31, 2017, 12:52:52 PM

That would be literally impossible unless you were playing at 1993 gencon (before it's existence was publicised to the rest of the world).

I assumed you were like 10 years old back then.  You win.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #45 on: October 31, 2017, 01:46:54 PM

That would be literally impossible unless you were playing at 1993 gencon (before it's existence was publicised to the rest of the world).

I assumed you were like 10 years old back then.  You win.

Ten year olds play CCGS. But no, I was I think either 12 or just turned 12 when I started playing.
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Reply #46 on: October 31, 2017, 01:57:54 PM

You have to understand that I enjoy the virgin deck type competitions in ccgs rather than the Pokemon card collecting.  If I could find a game that focused on developing the virgin deck/draft mode to a fine art, I'd likely stay with that game for a while.

I like the draft mode for Eternal FAR FAR more than Hearthstone's version.  I just wish that it wasn't so prohibitively expensive to dabble in.  By changing the payout on gauntlet, what was a 1-2hr grind to play a single draft became even longer.  I do realize that this is a business and they need to get some of their money back.  I'm happy to financially support any game that provides solid entertainment value, but their monetization scheme is just a bit too punishing for my personal tastes.  

If you can recommend a game with a better draft mode, I'd be happy to give it a shot.  The one in Eternal is pretty solid, just expensive.


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #47 on: October 31, 2017, 02:03:27 PM

They're all between $4 and $12 per draft. Though each draft lasts longer than a movie. I'm not sure how you value your time, but I don't feel there's a single draft mode on the market that's "too expensive." At least, not when I'm enjoying a game.
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Reply #48 on: October 31, 2017, 02:43:04 PM

They're all between $4 and $12 per draft. Though each draft lasts longer than a movie. I'm not sure how you value your time, but I don't feel there's a single draft mode on the market that's "too expensive." At least, not when I'm enjoying a game.

It wasn't a question of my value being the same as yours.  It was a question asking if you knew of a better draft mode.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Setanta
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Reply #49 on: October 31, 2017, 02:47:24 PM

I have no issue with the Gauntlet costs. When I think of how much I spent on MTG from 1994 onward a few dollars here and there for virtual cards that you get to keep isn't an issue. Unlike fucking Hearthstone.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
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Reply #50 on: October 31, 2017, 03:13:25 PM

They're all between $4 and $12 per draft. Though each draft lasts longer than a movie. I'm not sure how you value your time, but I don't feel there's a single draft mode on the market that's "too expensive." At least, not when I'm enjoying a game.

It wasn't a question of my value being the same as yours.  It was a question asking if you knew of a better draft mode.
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Reply #51 on: October 31, 2017, 03:59:59 PM

They're all between $4 and $12 per draft. Though each draft lasts longer than a movie. I'm not sure how you value your time, but I don't feel there's a single draft mode on the market that's "too expensive." At least, not when I'm enjoying a game.

You could buy 2200 Gems in Eternal for $20 (better deals on Founders packs).

A Draft costs 500 Gems or 5000 Gold. So that's 4.4 Draft fees for $20.

But if you go 6-7 wins, you make it back (on 6, you might be ~200 short).

5 wins nets you 3-4K Gold.

Gauntlet still good if you can go 7 wins consistently -- theres a dude, kcbandit, who's accumulated a million gold just playing Gauntlet and he's claimed he earns 1500 Gold per hour. But he loves Gauntlet mode and it not just winning but how fast he can go to 7.

For most players, Ranked mode probably is better deal. You get a free pack on 1st win of day, 50 Gold for each win, 4th & 7th & 10th wins of day get you a Silver chest which nets an Uncommon card and 200-250 gold. After that every win is 50 gold with every 3rd one double that. And those chests have (1/10 I think) chance of upgrading to a bigger chest -- where you would get ~500 Gold and a pack.


"We offered players a Camelot. We immediately discovered players wanted to smear shit all over the walls, create giant penises out of whatever was available, rape, rob and kill their fellow players and anything else not given invulnerability while making the teabag emote over their corpses and generally be utter and complete cunts. So we dialed it back a little." ~HaemishM
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Reply #52 on: November 05, 2017, 03:25:38 PM

Has any of you tried the Smite Card/Tactics game? It's called Hand of the Gods and beside the obvious Smite theme, it blends Heartstone (not MtG), with a generic "Tactics" game, like Duelyst. I have to say, while there are not enough cards out yet and it is once again a very simple game due to its Heartstone nature, I enjoy the extra layer given by the map and positioning. Also, it's Hi-Rez and to me that's a good thing. Free on Steam.

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Reply #53 on: November 05, 2017, 10:56:20 PM

I bought the Founders Pack for Tactics. It's pretty meh at the moment. Nothing to write home about. In fact it would be better as a mobile app.

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Reply #54 on: November 08, 2017, 08:38:34 PM

I guess I enjoy the fact that it's a huge improvement over Hearthstone.

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Reply #55 on: November 08, 2017, 11:36:57 PM

I guess I enjoy the fact that it's a huge improvement over Hearthstone.

Literally everything is a huge improvement over Hearthstone.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Setanta
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Reply #56 on: December 03, 2017, 04:03:42 AM

New expansion of 300 cards coming out. Teaser legendary can be won x4 from first win of the day in casual or ranked or made from dust later.

For the core and first expansion I'm now at 100% common, 100% uncommon, 82%/75% rare and 25% legendary mostly from playing although I did buy the top of the line founder's pack.

Looks like they boosted rewards from gauntlet back up. Draft is great for grabbing the rarer cards you need although the best I've done is 4/5

Just deleted Hearthstone off my mobile as I don't play it anymore due to this game (and its occasional frustrating mana screw/flood  awesome, for real )

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Reply #57 on: December 03, 2017, 02:55:45 PM

Eternal is a huge improvement over all of them but the progression is glacial and the metagame felt stale.

Shadowverse is a huge improvement over HS esp now that it got through a stretch of really really bad balance and has settled on a monthly nerfing of top cards in top decks, which results in being able to "dust/vial" said cards for full value for that month. Oh they are adding an entire new class in the next expansion and have announced rotating cards out ala mtg, which I'm mixed about.

tl;dr

fuck HS. Its complete shit and anyone playing it should feel bad. The entire 30 card deck 1 legendary thing would make it a bad rng highroll/draw setup and then you add that they go out of their way to add skilless high roll cards every chance they get. That shit is aids.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Setanta
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Reply #58 on: December 03, 2017, 11:22:49 PM

I want to try Shadowverse but the art puts me off. I'm just too old for anime T&A

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Reply #59 on: December 04, 2017, 07:21:27 AM

nerfing of top cards in top decks

garbage
Hoax
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Reply #60 on: December 04, 2017, 07:36:10 AM

SV is the most HS-clone of them all. So like HS there's no trading cards, no value/market for them. Its a digital game so honestly a monthly pass through of -1/-0, -1/-1 or +1 cost type shifts to the 2-5 cards powering the more abusive engines leads to at least variety and they needed it because they go with the whole on release powercreep the legends hard so that whales spend $$$$ to get them.

Its far from ideal or righteous game design but the end result is more fun to play games and less shit games.

https://shadowverse.com/news/?announce_id=453

here's the post on the November nerfs, which are pretty typical and indicative of how they've started to do it in the last 3 months. I mean I'm much more of a let the players sort it out instead of LoL style micro patching everything all the time.

BUT

this is a casual braindead virtual card game, so honestly in terms of making me willing to play this shift has been a major improvement.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 07:38:54 AM by Hoax »

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Reply #61 on: December 04, 2017, 08:33:10 AM

there's no trading cards, no value/market for them

garbage
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Reply #62 on: December 04, 2017, 04:11:01 PM

Played Shadowverse, for a while, last year, over a couple of expansions. They are far more generous than Hearthstone in giving you cards & packs. One of the expansions (neutrals) tilted me bad (& the previous one was *interesting* in that they released some OP cards that just couldn't be answered), just ridiculous. Haven't gone back since.

Loaded up Hearthstone for 1st time in a few weeks (& it was a like 2nd time in past 3 months), & it felt weird, being a passive spectator on opponent turns. And drawing 3 cards felt funny too as well as the card animations that seemed to take longer than I could recall. Looks like it will be 1st Hearthstone expansion I skip since I started playing Hearthstone.

Made Master rank last season (November) in Eternal (Ranked, not in Draft where I couldn't hurdle past Diamond). Never made Legend in Hearthstone, though I came close a few times -- it seems playing 20-40+ games of Eternal in a stretch, I'm having fun, & just need to break to give poor eyes a rest. Whereas in Hearthstone, after a dozen or so games, win streak or not, I just would be tired of the game, even when I was real active playing.

I see players complain about the grind to get a collection but I've not spent much money (bought a Founders Pack, maybe threw down $20 for Gems & haven't spent anything since, though when new expansion launches probably will pony up for a set of gems) yet I've got full collection of Rares and a lot of Legendaries -- missing mostly the memeish ones (though Meme decks, while not T1, are actually competitive in this game) but I've got enough cards to make a number of excellent/fun decks.

"We offered players a Camelot. We immediately discovered players wanted to smear shit all over the walls, create giant penises out of whatever was available, rape, rob and kill their fellow players and anything else not given invulnerability while making the teabag emote over their corpses and generally be utter and complete cunts. So we dialed it back a little." ~HaemishM
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Reply #63 on: December 04, 2017, 04:21:35 PM

Yeah the neutral expansion was awful, but that is all fixed/gone now, its quite playable atm. with a decent variety of decks.

Eternal is just too stingy with cards, I got so burned out of playing Eternal pauper for my dailies day after day after day without getting any closer to being able to build real decks. Its by far the worst payout from packs and the packs come at best as often as they do in SV plus you need 4 copies of a legend instead of 3 plus the card crafting is insanely stingy compared to SV it felt like to me, I don't think I checked the actual numbers.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Reply #64 on: December 04, 2017, 05:31:38 PM

Yeah the neutral expansion was awful, but that is all fixed/gone now, its quite playable atm. with a decent variety of decks.

Eternal is just too stingy with cards, I got so burned out of playing Eternal pauper for my dailies day after day after day without getting any closer to being able to build real decks. Its by far the worst payout from packs and the packs come at best as often as they do in SV plus you need 4 copies of a legend instead of 3 plus the card crafting is insanely stingy compared to SV it felt like to me, I don't think I checked the actual numbers.

Thing is, once you start to fill out your Rares, the Shiftstone just comes -- it's like ~338 per pack (assuming Rare & not 1/10 Legendary roll). And you get a lot of packs -- you get 1 just for winning 1st Ranked game of day. Then you get Gold for Ranked wins -- easily, I can pull down 1-2K in gold in a session. On top of quests, some of which give you packs and each daily is like 500-1000 Gold -- & sometimes you get lucky with chest upgrade & get packs there. If you do decent in Draft, it's like 7 packs (including cards you draft). I got Premium Legendary for making Master, 2 Rares for Diamond in Draft, plus like 5 or 6 packs at end of season.

"We offered players a Camelot. We immediately discovered players wanted to smear shit all over the walls, create giant penises out of whatever was available, rape, rob and kill their fellow players and anything else not given invulnerability while making the teabag emote over their corpses and generally be utter and complete cunts. So we dialed it back a little." ~HaemishM
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Reply #65 on: December 04, 2017, 05:36:54 PM

A comprehensive study on which CCG is free-est to play from among Hearthstone, Shadowverse, Eternal, TESL, Gwent:
Going Deep – Free-EST-to-Play



They're all cheaper than MtGO:
Quote
If I were to include MTGO in this article it would rank dead last in all categories. I am not kidding. For example, as of the writing of this article, the top 3 most popular decks cost about 500$, which is more than any other game. And that is the good news! The bad news is that the game is “pay-to-play”. It is impossible to get into serious matches without spending money just to play. Even then, you need a win rate close to 55-60% to keep playing without spending more. It is impossible to build a collection without being incredibly good at the game, no matter if you play constructed or limited. What about the starting material they give to beginners? Basically nothing, and in addition you need to pay real money for an account, so you are just paying for that. In addition, managing the economy is a mess. You need to trade with others to get cards you don’t have, which usually means trading with bots, that sometimes don’t have the cards you want, or are being used by other people so you need to wait. This is all aside from difficult-to-navigate screens, tons of clicking around, and the anxiety of managing your collection like a stock portfolio. Of course neither MTGO nor its proponents argue that the game is even trying to be F2P, but the economic model is honestly trash. Before anyone comes at me about the ability to sell back cards to vendors or use redemptions, this doesn’t exactly solve the massive buy-in problem, or the fact that most cards depreciate in value, or the fact that it is so expensive for the average gamer. Unless you are a ringer who never loses or a baller that can just throw your wallet at the screen, MTGO’s economy is hot garbage.

"We offered players a Camelot. We immediately discovered players wanted to smear shit all over the walls, create giant penises out of whatever was available, rape, rob and kill their fellow players and anything else not given invulnerability while making the teabag emote over their corpses and generally be utter and complete cunts. So we dialed it back a little." ~HaemishM
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Reply #66 on: December 04, 2017, 06:22:12 PM

A comprehensive study on which CCG is free-est to play from among Hearthstone, Shadowverse, Eternal, TESL, Gwent:
Going Deep – Free-EST-to-Play


tl;dr higher numbers are better, so Eternal is "best" cost-wise according to an, uh, Eternal fan site.
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Reply #67 on: December 05, 2017, 04:39:08 PM

I have 100hrs in Eternal and 350hrs in SV on Steam.

Eternal is much much much much much slower to build meta decks for constructed.

What does Eternal do well? The gameplay is the best, because it actually has instants so its an adult card game not a kids card game ala SV and HS. Can't speak to Gwent or TESL because both failed to appeal on any level to me so I never tried them.

What else? Drafting, where you keep the cards feels a lot better than Arena in HS or Take 2 in SV.

I like both games. SV has better art and is more rewarding if you don't feel like playing well because children's card games are easy to play halfass while basically ignoring your opponent's turns while you watch netflix or read f13 or whatever. If Eternal hadn't dickpunched me so hard when it came to actually building a collection I'd probably still be logging in for my dailies. But the reward was so bad I couldn't justify it over just playing Pauper on MTGO.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
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