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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  MMOG Discussion  |  World of Warcraft  |  Topic: The "WoW in 2016" Thread 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: The "WoW in 2016" Thread  (Read 12300 times)
luckton
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on: February 12, 2016, 05:21:58 AM

Might as well start doing these conversations in annual threads, as the activity is about on par with the other Graveyard games. tongue

Anyways, the Q4 2015 report is out. Bliz isn't reporting sub numbers anymore (since that would just give away the whole game and declare the game essentially dead), but what they are reporting is still kinda bad news. They're looking to launch Legion this summer post-Warcraft The Movie release. That puts any sign of new content/retention stuff off until July/August, which is making a lot of people wonder why anyone is even bothering with the game anymore.

Aside from that, well, that's it as far as WoW goes. The Legion alpha rolls on, and the content coming off the test servers looks spectacular. Just wish we didn't have to wait another six months to get it.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

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Hutch
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Reply #1 on: February 12, 2016, 05:55:21 AM

I read that there's going to be some kind of promo where you can win a free copy of the game (WoW) if you go see the movie  awesome, for real

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Reply #2 on: February 12, 2016, 06:45:04 AM

Yeah, because the movie has such broad universal appeal it will surely draw in a lot of new fans.
luckton
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Reply #3 on: February 12, 2016, 07:04:51 AM

Reactions from those I know seem generally positive for the movie. They may be onto something here with the promo tie-in to help boost sales of the expansion after a year of drought. Giving away the base game is not a big deal, considering it's value is essentially zero after a handful of expansions and so many years on. Hell, we should be offered some money back after they took Naxx out of being the final tier for vanilla :P.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Merusk
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Reply #4 on: February 12, 2016, 08:15:02 AM

They're looking to launch Legion this summer post-Warcraft The Movie release. That puts any sign of new content/retention stuff off until July/August, which is making a lot of people wonder why anyone is even bothering with the game anymore.

Aside from that, well, that's it as far as WoW goes. The Legion alpha rolls on, and the content coming off the test servers looks spectacular. Just wish we didn't have to wait another six months to get it.

This was a known thing for at least the last 4 months. It finally destroyed several of the remaining 25-person raiding guilds on my server, some of which stretched back to 2005. The remnants have reformed but a LOT of people I know who had 10+ year accounts and the trophies to prove it unsubbed. I doubt they'll be returning.

I don't even fire the game up for random bullshit anymore. The slog to get the legendary stuff combined with the content drought has proven to me the game's good as a nostalgia visit but will never be the contender it once was for my time.

Still, even though they've stopped reporting subs the game is still profitable and has hundreds of thousands of more subscribers than its next-closest competitor. Are there any non-free MMOs that can still claim over a million people, much less several million?

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Paelos
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Reply #5 on: February 12, 2016, 08:36:32 AM

IF ATVI drops back down to 20 again, I'll pick it back up. I think the company was VASTLY overpriced around Christmas and if you sold then, you slaughtered the competition.

That being said, they don't need WoW anymore and it's obvious. Their MOBA and Hearthstone and D3 and even the stupid SC2 stuff make them more than enough in the Blizzard realm. And then they have the other Activision stuff that just prints money.

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Merusk
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Reply #6 on: February 12, 2016, 09:46:59 AM

How is D3 making them money? Seems it's just an overall expense since there's no P2W layer like the other games. You can't even buy more stash tabs or skins and XP potions like their competitors in that sector.

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luckton
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Reply #7 on: February 12, 2016, 09:49:16 AM

Console sales + decent patch improvements that draw in new people.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

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Rasix
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Reply #8 on: February 12, 2016, 10:11:24 AM

Anecdotally, I'd say their free-to-play options are drawing people into their pay offerings.  My nephews started as HearthStone players, but ended up buying into WoW and D3 out of brand loyalty.  And since social gaming extends to their social circles, I'm sure a similar thing is happening with their friends. 

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Sir T
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Reply #9 on: February 12, 2016, 10:21:28 AM

I read a while back an article that speculated that blizzard are operating on a 3 month strategy for their games, meaning that they are thinking that people are going to be sick of their games after 2-3 months. So just when you are tiring of the game you are playing right now, they will suddenly pop up with a new expansion for ANOTHER Blizzard game, so that their playerbase will move to another one and be back to enthusiastic and willing to spend.

So the strategy is that you will be moved via carrot from one game to another, all the time spending your money yo blizzard. If you are a player who is only interested in ONE blizzard game, then fuck you, because your game will be moribund for 8 months of the year. They want you moving from game to game in a circle, all the time shedding money. Hail Blizzard.

I haven't seen anything to say this is not inaccurate since then.

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luckton
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Reply #10 on: February 12, 2016, 12:13:27 PM

I find that I still want to play WoW, and I'm excited about the new expansion. I just have zero desire to play right now. Could I jump in and farm old reps and content and such? Sure, butI'm really kinda burnt out on them. So I keep reminding the part of me that wants to play now that it'll be a lot better once Legion gets here.

I'm looking forward to starting fresh with a Demon Hunter.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
kaid
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Reply #11 on: February 12, 2016, 01:28:33 PM

Anecdotally, I'd say their free-to-play options are drawing people into their pay offerings.  My nephews started as HearthStone players, but ended up buying into WoW and D3 out of brand loyalty.  And since social gaming extends to their social circles, I'm sure a similar thing is happening with their friends. 

Also they are doing a great job of cross game promotions of get this for x game and get fun stuff for Y game has gotten a lot of WOW players I know to try heathstone and heroes of the storm.
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Reply #12 on: February 12, 2016, 02:18:21 PM

D3 is making money on new users and expansions. And as ppl said, they are trying to cross tie cosmetics to all products now.

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Azazel
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Reply #13 on: February 23, 2016, 04:54:45 AM

So is flying added back properly in Legion?

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luckton
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Reply #14 on: February 23, 2016, 06:08:57 AM

They're taking the idea they spawned in the last WoD patch moving forward. You're grounded until your max level, explored everything, found enough world treasure drops, and built your rep with the NPC groups. The recommended course of action is to just grind out the meta-achievement with your main so that your alts can fly around while you level them.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Merusk
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Reply #15 on: February 23, 2016, 07:13:08 AM

It's really just easier not to give Blizzard my $15.

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Rendakor
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Reply #16 on: February 23, 2016, 07:21:39 AM

It's really just easier not to give Blizzard my $15.
This right here.

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Azuredream
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Reply #17 on: February 23, 2016, 07:36:01 AM

I never understood what was wrong with the BC/WotLK formula.  Grounded until the last couple zones, with those last couple zones designed around you having flying.

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Hutch
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Reply #18 on: February 23, 2016, 08:01:25 AM

I never understood what was wrong with the BC/WotLK formula.  Grounded until the last couple zones, with those last couple zones designed around you having flying.

Nothing was wrong with that formula. What was wrong was the whiny, pissant argument that flying trivializes content. Which is horseshit, but once the WoW devs bought into it, well. Here we are.

I suppose that walling off flying behind a meta-achievement is better than no flying. But they fixed something that they didn't need to break.

How many subs did they lose during WoD? 5 million? 6? Oh I guess they're not publishing those numbers anymore  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #19 on: February 23, 2016, 08:24:17 AM

Do you guys even remember how hard it was grinding the money for flying back when bc first came out? Shit, having to just do one meta achievement is a non issue.  It's not like Onyxia keys or black temple attunement were any harder.

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Reply #20 on: February 23, 2016, 08:44:20 AM

I liked the game more without flying in WOD. Overall, I didn't really like the game anyway so my opinion doesn't really matter.

Not sure why I'm posting this.
Hutch
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Reply #21 on: February 23, 2016, 09:17:05 AM

Do you guys even remember how hard it was grinding the money for flying back when bc first came out? Shit, having to just do one meta achievement is a non issue.  It's not like Onyxia keys or black temple attunement were any harder.

I didn't put any more effort into the 5K that fast flight cost, than I did for the 100 gold that I needed at level 40 in order to buy the slow ground riding skill.

At level 40, Blizzard hadn't invented dailies yet  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

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Reply #22 on: February 23, 2016, 10:32:38 AM

Do you guys even remember how hard it was grinding the money for flying back when bc first came out? Shit, having to just do one meta achievement is a non issue.  It's not like Onyxia keys or black temple attunement were any harder.
I didn't play BC to max level, but getting money by playing the AH has never been hard. I had ~300k personally when I quit towards the end of Cata, after buying epic flying on 10 toons of my own and probably 20 more guildies plus all the BOE epics we could get our hands on. Even in vanilla I had thousands of gold just from buying cheap greens, DEing them and selling the dusts.

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Azuredream
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Reply #23 on: February 23, 2016, 10:49:51 AM

The only thing that was crazy expensive was the 280% flying. The shitty 60% was cheap.

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Merusk
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Reply #24 on: February 23, 2016, 01:31:27 PM

Yep, and even shitty 60% speed was faster than 100% land once you counted dismounts/ stuns/ obstacles.

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I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
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Setanta
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Reply #25 on: February 24, 2016, 12:17:53 AM

They're taking the idea they spawned in the last WoD patch moving forward. You're grounded until your max level, explored everything, found enough world treasure drops, and built your rep with the NPC groups. The recommended course of action is to just grind out the meta-achievement with your main so that your alts can fly around while you level them.

And this is why I doubt I'll buy the Xpac. I couldn't bring myself to do all this crap this expansion and unsubbed when they limited flying and increased grinding to fly. I hate rep grinds and flying has always been a small pleasure I got from the game.

Post WoD, my mantra has become "If you have to work in a game, it's not fun - it's a second job"

Screw that

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Reply #26 on: February 24, 2016, 02:47:26 AM

It's really just easier not to give Blizzard my $15.
This right here.

Yep. I'll continue with this particular formula.

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Reply #27 on: February 24, 2016, 02:49:07 AM

Do you guys even remember how hard it was grinding the money for flying back when bc first came out? Shit, having to just do one meta achievement is a non issue.  It's not like Onyxia keys or black temple attunement were any harder.

Yes I do. It goes under, "been there, done that shit in the past already, I already have a job so fuck you."

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Setanta
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Reply #28 on: February 25, 2016, 03:00:47 AM

Yes I do. It goes under, "been there, done that shit in the past already, I already have a job so fuck you."

Someone needs to nail this quote to the dev's wall.

Diablo 3 worked out that grind does not equal fun, HotS got it, Hearthstone got it, Overwatch got it (so far)... so WTF is up with WoW devs?

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Reply #29 on: February 25, 2016, 09:07:45 AM

"Grind" is a subjective term, defined by each playerbase.

WoW dev's problem is the same as the playerbase it focuses on. Lots of time on their hands so a minimum 4-5 hours a day of activity is an ok and desired thing. It's simply the market they're serving. Why are the current people quitting? Not because of grind but because they're done with the current grind and want another.

They lost the casual playerbase ages ago when Cata hit and they cranked things up because raiders were badmouthing the game everywhere for being "too easy" in WOTLK. A decision has been made to serve the current players rather than chasing the ones who left.

The only way to win is not to play.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
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I love the swinging dongs - Signe
Azazel
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Reply #30 on: February 28, 2016, 12:33:19 AM

Strokes about "casuals" there are a bit too broad, methinks.

My wife and myself were typically worth about 4-6 months a year worth of subs, each. A couple of months at a time, then a rest for a month or three when the sameness sets in. We took a break in mid(?) Pandas, and when it was announced that the new expansion (Draenor 2.0 - whatever it was called) wouldn't have flying, it pressed my Fuck You button. The manner in which it was patched in hasn't changed my mind at all.

You're right though, I think in that the Devs and the hardcore both share the catass mentality, but I think that choosing to serve them and the myopic dev worldview that goes with it is what has driven off and continued to drive off the rest of us. They're not chasing us - they actually chased us off.

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Merusk
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Reply #31 on: February 28, 2016, 06:38:18 AM

Unlike others I don't put a line on casuals and hardcore at raiders and the level of content tried. I put it at time in game per day.  Casual folks still have binge days, but my hardcore are on a minimum of 4 hours a day, EVERY day.

They plan IRL activities around the game. They get upset when family activities drive them off. They spend hours at work researching strategies or the best way to eek another 1% effectiveness out. Camping 16 hours straight for that Rare mount?  Sure, why not it's the weekend after all.

I knew plenty of these people who thought themselves casual because they only hit the 2nd tier of raid content a few months after release and never got to Mythic before the next patch. They may not have even gotten through all of the Heroic bosses before that patch.  However they were decidedly NOT casual.

They loved the changes since WOTLK, though.  Their only complaint was content took too long to come and the expansions got buggier each release. WOD was particularly bad after a year at the end of Mists so they were at a breaking point.  The announcement of another year before the next expansion finally broke them.

I can't get past the panties - Alluvian
I really like the cocks. - Lantyssa
People rarely believe just how good I am at sucking. - Lantyssa
I love the swinging dongs - Signe
luckton
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Reply #32 on: February 28, 2016, 06:11:32 PM

Do you think the increasing amount of time between expansions is related to the lack of serious competition in the current gen? I mean, there are still companies out there working on new and newer MMOs, and as some ambitious ones were released (GW2, Wildstar, Elder Scrolls) and carved off a chunk of the player base, has anything since MoP (or even Cata) been released that's made Blizzard say "oh man, we need to get out shit together"?

I think WoW stands as a testament to MMO gaming, and when everyone was trying make a stand in the oughts, such competition kept Blizzard innovating and improving. Now that they've reached what one could call it's apex, and all attempts to bring it down only made it stronger or had no effect, perhaps they've just gotten complacent with their position. I mean, the stuff coming down the pipe in Legion looks fantastic, but there just doesn't seem to be the huge "urge" to get it out as quickly as they once might have tried to do.

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Draegan
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Reply #33 on: March 02, 2016, 09:17:49 AM

Most online gaming is in FPS and MOBAs hence Overwatch and HOTS.

edit: I just checked Twitch and Black Desert Online is sitting in 12th place in viewers right now (fresh release) which kind of surprised me. MMOs hardly ever make it that high.
Rendakor
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Reply #34 on: March 02, 2016, 10:27:47 AM

Do you think the increasing amount of time between expansions is related to the lack of serious competition in the current gen? I mean, there are still companies out there working on new and newer MMOs, and as some ambitious ones were released (GW2, Wildstar, Elder Scrolls) and carved off a chunk of the player base, has anything since MoP (or even Cata) been released that's made Blizzard say "oh man, we need to get out shit together"?

I think WoW stands as a testament to MMO gaming, and when everyone was trying make a stand in the oughts, such competition kept Blizzard innovating and improving. Now that they've reached what one could call it's apex, and all attempts to bring it down only made it stronger or had no effect, perhaps they've just gotten complacent with their position. I mean, the stuff coming down the pipe in Legion looks fantastic, but there just doesn't seem to be the huge "urge" to get it out as quickly as they once might have tried to do.
I don't see how this is WoW's apex; subs have gotten so low they aren't even reporting them anymore. The devs aren't complacent as kings of the genre, they're maintaining a dying game because Blizzard has other sources of income. I don't think they ever considered their competition a reason to release content faster; they've always been their own worst enemy in that regard. People quit WoW because they've done all the things, not to play some other MMO.

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