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Author Topic: Index/Oculus/Vive/PSVR  (Read 91666 times)
Cyrrex
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Reply #560 on: December 03, 2019, 01:28:43 AM

Just to put a lid on that conversation, almost nobody prefers a Vive Pro over an Index in the real world.  You can probably find people that do, but based on what I am seeing, that would be the rare exception.  The OLEDs have an advantage on black levels, but the Index has every other conceivable advantage.  So that also leaves the OG Vive in the dust.  The Index is the Ferrari of VR, and it currently sits there alone.

Yegolev, I think the first thing you need to do is state your BUDGET for just the VR hardware alone.  Second, describe the amount of SPACE you are willing to use for it.  And you say cables don't matter, but are you willing to have 2 little black tracking boxes hanging from the walls or in otherwise opposite positions with power cords or other cables running to them?

I could just say "get an Index, stupid", but if you don't have the budget and space, then that would be pointless.  And unless you are powering it with something at least equivalent to a desktop 1070, you will be a very sad panda indeed.  Display Port and USB 3.0 are basically are also required.




« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 01:32:36 AM by Cyrrex »

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Yegolev
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Reply #561 on: December 03, 2019, 09:41:54 AM

Is there any chance I can get a laptop and VR for under $1700?

It would be nice to have something at least as good as the PS VR kit. So, you see my bar for quality is low.

I'd like it to use very little space. SOMEONE has filled my house with FURNITURE.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 09:44:30 AM by Yegolev »

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Trippy
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Reply #562 on: December 03, 2019, 12:20:16 PM

Is there any chance I can get a laptop and VR for under $1700?
In theory yes but you may not be happy with the compromises made to achieve that goal. You are looking at about $1000 for a bare minimum laptop that can “do” VR, which is something with an NViDIA GTX 1060 / 1660 Ti / 2060. “Do” is in quotes since those laptop GPUs can’t do 4K/VR at a stable 90+ FPS without turning down a lot of graphics details.

That leaves ~$700 for the VR system which unfortunately excludes the Valve Index.
Cyrrex
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Reply #563 on: December 03, 2019, 01:18:56 PM

Yeah, that is a pretty low bar.  Literally every PC based VR set is better than PSVR, and probably by a wide margin.

You cannot really get both for that kind of money, however.  I would probaby aim for getting the best laptop you can get, and then just get some shitty used Rift or Vive as a starter. 

And then you will eventually realize you want better resolution, and also that our laptop isn’t good enough.  Maybe you answered it already, but why why oh why a laptop?

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Brolan
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Reply #564 on: December 03, 2019, 01:53:31 PM

That’s what I don’t like about my original Vive, the pixelated view.  Have the newer units fixed this?
Falconeer
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Reply #565 on: December 03, 2019, 02:06:23 PM

At this point I only want a VR helmet for Euro/American Truck Simulator. And Elite Dangerous. Half Alux Life is the 3rd reason, but it requires more hardware than just the helmet so I don't know...

Trippy
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Reply #566 on: December 03, 2019, 02:23:17 PM

That’s what I don’t like about my original Vive, the pixelated view.  Have the newer units fixed this?
Newer top end models (e.g. Index, Vive Pro, Odyssey+) have higher resolution (1400 x 1600 per eye) than the earlier generations (1080 x 1200 per eye) which reduces or eliminates the "screen door" effect.
Druzil
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Reply #567 on: December 04, 2019, 08:36:30 AM

I think with the addition of PC support to the Oculus Quest (link) it's the best choice for casual VR.  You get a totally stand alone unit. Inside out tracking so no wall mounted devices or strict room requirements.  Then using link Link you get access to pretty much all PC VR titles and can leverage your PC if you have one.

You can take it wherever you go so it's easy to show off to friends and family, play in the living room or garage or wherever.  But then you can still take it home and plug in into your gaming PC and take advantage of that power as well.

If you're hardcore into flight sims, space sims, iRacing or something or have a dedicated VR room/cockpit in your house it's maybe not the best choice.  But you're probably not talking about budget at that point.

If you then decided you want to take it to the next level or that VR isn't for you, you can sell it on craigstlist/facebook for $300-350 and your only out $50-100.
Cyrrex
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Reply #568 on: December 04, 2019, 09:20:46 AM

That is probably true.  Although, inside-out tracking is a negative IMO, but that is because I have the space and willingness to setup lighthouses.  For casual VR....sure.  But then, it almost costs as much as the Rift S, so I wonder what a true side by side comparison would pan out.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Tale
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Reply #569 on: December 04, 2019, 06:17:12 PM

At this point I only want a VR helmet for Euro/American Truck Simulator. And Elite Dangerous. Half Alux Life is the 3rd reason, but it requires more hardware than just the helmet so I don't know...

Then your choice is limited to Valve Index, HTC Vive and Oculus. Frontier has just stated (after people reported double vision and incorrect rendering on HMDs with non-parallel displays, e.g. Pimax) that it is ONLY going to support those three HMDs in Elite: Dangerous.

Quote
At the current time, there are no plans to provide support for new HMDs outside the officially supported systems and platforms. The officially supported platforms are Valve Index, HTC Vive and Oculus. QA-Jack
Yegolev
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Reply #570 on: December 05, 2019, 02:05:53 PM

Maybe you answered it already, but why why oh why a laptop?

I don't think you can do VR on a tablet.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Yegolev
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Reply #571 on: December 05, 2019, 02:09:37 PM


Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Cyrrex
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Reply #572 on: December 06, 2019, 01:38:10 AM

 Head scratch

I mean, okay.  Don't get me wrong, there is a place for stuff like that and there is plenty of it out there (and probably better stuff, never even heard of that one).  But wouldn't you rather play this ?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/823500/BONEWORKS/

Anyway, the real point I am trying to get across is that - regardless of which of the main VR sets you go with - if you go out and drop a grand on one of those theoretical laptops Trippy mentioned that has a 1660 card and a handicapped i5 or i7 mobile processor.....it might not be long before you are kicking yourself and regretting that choice.  Maybe if you spent 2 grand on it.  And even then you can never upgrade it.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Yegolev
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Reply #573 on: December 06, 2019, 09:03:32 AM

I figure by the time the family hits walls with the shared gaming laptop that we will be in a position to have another discussion on an upgrade; it's not like we haven't had this happen with desktop models. Performing upgrades on a floor chassis is also a huge pain, even moreso due to the time/effort involved. We don't have any spare time or energy for such things. A laptop is something we can use until the wheels fall off and then we can just buy a new one. This is why on the last cycle I bought everyone a Mac, and that paid off pretty well for the Support Team.

First priority is gaming laptop. We can't lug a desktop on trips, and we don't really play much at home except PS4/Switch style games. VR helmet is a nice add-on. The laptop will be used in any case but we can't (or don't want to) use the VR alone (since we already have a PSVR).

Maybe I will get the Oculus. I still don't feel smarter and I think that's the dumb option.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Viin
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Reply #574 on: December 06, 2019, 11:09:41 AM

I don't think this is too GPU intensive and it's a great game: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1079800/Pistol_Whip/

- Viin
Cyrrex
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Reply #575 on: December 06, 2019, 01:53:14 PM

I figure by the time the family hits walls with the shared gaming laptop that we will be in a position to have another discussion on an upgrade; it's not like we haven't had this happen with desktop models. Performing upgrades on a floor chassis is also a huge pain, even moreso due to the time/effort involved. We don't have any spare time or energy for such things. A laptop is something we can use until the wheels fall off and then we can just buy a new one. This is why on the last cycle I bought everyone a Mac, and that paid off pretty well for the Support Team.

First priority is gaming laptop. We can't lug a desktop on trips, and we don't really play much at home except PS4/Switch style games. VR helmet is a nice add-on. The laptop will be used in any case but we can't (or don't want to) use the VR alone (since we already have a PSVR).

Maybe I will get the Oculus. I still don't feel smarter and I think that's the dumb option.

Given this, I still think the best thing for you to do is to make the specs of the laptop the priority.  And then either get some used VR or save up a little longer for a Quest or something.  The “risk” here is that you will like VR enough that you will want to upgrade to a Rift S or an Index....in which case you will have to start over.  You have no upgrade path on either the PC or the VR.  Not something I would do myself, but you know yourself and your own needs.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 01:59:35 PM by Cyrrex »

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Yegolev
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Reply #576 on: December 10, 2019, 10:32:18 AM

I'll take that advice. Get a solid gaming laptop and pick a easy VR. I figure I've already suffered enough in this situation to account for $2000 but I have a different value set than my wife does. It's not as if we aren't able to pay for something top-end but we don't like to spend inefficiently.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Cyrrex
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Reply #577 on: December 10, 2019, 12:15:12 PM

As long as you have a ton of use for the PC even without the VR, it is hard to argue it as a waste of money even if you find you have fucked up the VR part and underpowered things.

All that said, we’re going to want to see some specs.  Ohhhhh, I see.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Yegolev
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Reply #578 on: December 10, 2019, 12:19:00 PM

No problem. There is a list of games that the life obstacles have been deprived of since I decreed they get Macs. Will report back.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Cyrrex
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Reply #579 on: December 13, 2019, 01:53:07 AM

Meanwhile, Boneworks has dropped (I cheekily linked it above).  I am still in the very long tutorial section, but as a physics demonstration it seems pretty cool, and it runs amazing.  It seems to be the fastest selling Steam VR title as of yet and is even on the front page for regular Steam stuff.  Descriptions of it range from "amazing, momentous" to "janky mess" and often in the same sentence.  Will report back when I get past the boring bits and get to shoot stuff in the face.

Whatever else, whoever made this shit is proving some interesting stuff about what can be done with the physics, how good it can look and how well it can run.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Yegolev
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Reply #580 on: December 13, 2019, 08:55:33 AM

I woke up today and realized it is December 13. Must purchase today.

I see laptops with Ryzen 7 and GTX 1650 listed. Is this a "mobile" 1650 or a "real" 1650?

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Yegolev
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Reply #581 on: December 13, 2019, 09:01:13 AM


Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Yegolev
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Reply #582 on: December 13, 2019, 09:13:17 AM

Internet tales lead me to think ASUS ROG all have "Intel Thunderbolt" which is supposedly Displayport. Confusing.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Yegolev
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Reply #583 on: December 13, 2019, 12:14:31 PM

Ended up with a laptop on which I could determine the correct inputs: https://www.newegg.com/black-msi-gl-series-gl75-9sdk-063-gaming-entertainment/p/N82E16834155296
And Oculus Rift S which was actually in-stock.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Trippy
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Reply #584 on: December 13, 2019, 02:20:48 PM

Yes that's a better choice than the Amazon one which has a gimpy GPU.

As for Thunderbolt, I've only seen a single AMD desktop motherboard that has a real Thunderbolt 3 port and that's apparently a special one-off design, so you wouldn't be able to find one on an AMD CPU laptop.
Tale
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Reply #585 on: December 13, 2019, 02:34:43 PM

Really good choice, I reckon. I researched gaming laptops recently and this was one I nearly settled on. Came closer to a similarly specced Dell G5 on Black Friday, but backed off for now will look again in Boxing Day sales.
Falconeer
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Reply #586 on: December 15, 2019, 08:46:44 AM

I've been buying MSI for years and the last one I bought was a big disappointment. I can't say anything about your purchase and I hope it'll be good, but let's just say that the "slim" line in my opinion sucks and it makes sense. Simply put, you'd wonder how can they achieve good ventilation for all that power in such small laptops? They can't. When you are playing serious games they heat up to the point your fingers can't sit comfortably on the keyboard.

So again, I hope this won't be the case with your laptop (I am sure some reviews or a bit of googling can help) but damn MSI really broke my heart here. My next one it'll be as big and fat and heavy as it can be because termodynamics.

Mandella
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Reply #587 on: December 15, 2019, 12:04:59 PM

I've been buying MSI for years and the last one I bought was a big disappointment. I can't say anything about your purchase and I hope it'll be good, but let's just say that the "slim" line in my opinion sucks and it makes sense. Simply put, you'd wonder how can they achieve good ventilation for all that power in such small laptops? They can't. When you are playing serious games they heat up to the point your fingers can't sit comfortably on the keyboard.

So again, I hope this won't be the case with your laptop (I am sure some reviews or a bit of googling can help) but damn MSI really broke my heart here. My next one it'll be as big and fat and heavy as it can be because termodynamics.


Problem solved!

:D




They do make actual blower stands for notebooks, but I love the cheapass box fan approach...
Falconeer
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Reply #588 on: December 15, 2019, 03:34:26 PM

I tried them all. Again, I can't speak for all the models but I am extremely disappointed with mine. I paid $1700 for it and so I wasn't going to give up on it easily. I tried two different coolers, I fiddled with settings, fans everything. Download apps, constantly opened to remove dust, had the siliconic paste reapplied, everything I can think of. The verdict is that it SUCKS, and it's my first MSI that I am unhappy with and also the first slim one. My previous ones were all "desktop replacements" and were dreamy good. The slim one? A portable heater for cold winter days. No good.

Cyrrex
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Reply #589 on: December 16, 2019, 12:09:19 AM

Well, aren't they basically trying these days to shove desktop model GPUs in those things nowadays?  Keeping it cool seems quite a challenge.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Cyrrex
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Reply #590 on: December 16, 2019, 09:58:58 AM

Meanwhile, Boneworks has dropped (I cheekily linked it above).  I am still in the very long tutorial section, but as a physics demonstration it seems pretty cool, and it runs amazing.  It seems to be the fastest selling Steam VR title as of yet and is even on the front page for regular Steam stuff.  Descriptions of it range from "amazing, momentous" to "janky mess" and often in the same sentence.  Will report back when I get past the boring bits and get to shoot stuff in the face.

Whatever else, whoever made this shit is proving some interesting stuff about what can be done with the physics, how good it can look and how well it can run.

Okay, so I am not even through the first real level, and I don’t even have a gun yet, but I am upgrading my opinion to “unbelievable”.  This is the only true killer app for VR, and it is a must-buy.  Insane that they are selling it for 30 bucks, they could charge double.  I cannot believe how immersive this game is, nor how smooth it runs.  The physics alone should make it a tough job for most computers, but it is so far the only title I have that I run at 144hz, and even at 120% resolution.  With lots of room to spare.

If you have VR, buy it.  The only word of caution is this:  they are not kidding when they say it is for VR ‘experts’.  You need to have found your VR legs.

Everyone raves about the gunplay, and I haven’t even found a gun yet.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Yegolev
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Reply #591 on: December 16, 2019, 10:00:49 AM

I don't see any heat complaints about the MSI laptop on Newegg so I'm hopeful it will be OK. Plus it probably won't be running very demanding games.

Why am I homeless?  Why do all you motherfuckers need homes is the real question.
They called it The Prayer, its answer was law
Mommy come back 'cause the water's all gone
Cyrrex
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Reply #592 on: December 17, 2019, 05:37:04 AM

Okay, dialing back the hyperbole a little.  Boneworks is far from perfect.  Still janky, strange and sometimes pretty frustrating.  But awesome nonetheless.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Count Nerfedalot
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Reply #593 on: December 19, 2019, 10:47:01 PM

I'm typing this on a 6 year old MSI GT70 laptop. I can still play some pretty hefty games on it, like Ark and Elite Dangerous  (both at lower resolution and framerate than the desktop 1070 of course) and I was playing EQ2 on it a couple years ago.  It's not a notebook style though. More like a "luggable desktop replacement" than "laptop", 15-16" wide, weighs 10+ lbs, and absolutely requires having something between it and my lap for comfort. I use a wedge-shaped lap desk thingy with built-in extra fans that don't work anymore but the air gap it provides between my lap and it's nuclear core is much appreciated.  It really does get very hot unless I take measures, so in addition to exposing the underside to air with the lap desk I usually force the fan to constant full speed, with a large amount of white noise as a byproduct. Otherwise it will dither around trying to minimize the fan speed instead of doing everything it can to avoid melting down. I love it, but it's definitely not for everyone, and I find I'm as likely to leave it home on trips as take it given how much work it is to schlep it around.

Yes, I know I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
Cyrrex
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Reply #594 on: December 23, 2019, 04:09:05 AM

Beat Saber now has both 90 degree and 360 degree levels.  Pretty freaking cool.  I don't know if the custom song community is on top of the new 360 stuff, but I imagine it is inevitable.

For any of you that don't own it or are only just about to get an HMD of any brand, Beat Saber is probably the one true Can't Miss title.  Everyone likes Beat Saber.  It looks and runs like butter, and it is super easy and intuitive to get into. 

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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