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Author Topic: Star Trek (CBS VOD 2017)  (Read 36561 times)
Der Helm
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Reply #350 on: February 10, 2018, 03:02:33 PM

Neelix tried to poison the crew every other day and was still free to move about the ship.  why so serious?

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Khaldun
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Reply #351 on: February 10, 2018, 08:45:34 PM

I...

Ok, that's a good point.

Surlyboi
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Reply #352 on: February 11, 2018, 09:53:39 PM

Saw that end coming and it was still awesome. The closing music was key.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
satael
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Reply #353 on: February 12, 2018, 06:21:14 AM

Got to love how the plot is solved by federation giving a torturer a nuke with which to threaten a global annihilation.
Der Helm
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Reply #354 on: February 12, 2018, 02:32:26 PM

Yeah, I am pretty "meh" on the finale as well. Ohhhhh, I see.

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
Surlyboi
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Reply #355 on: February 12, 2018, 04:02:58 PM

Got to love how the plot is solved by federation giving a torturer a nuke with which to threaten a global annihilation.

But was she actually a torturer, given what we now know about Tyler?

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
eldaec
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Reply #356 on: February 13, 2018, 08:57:53 AM

I thought the finale was fine.

If I have any complaint it is that it was a bit too vanilla "star trek" and not very "discovery". Without Lorca it feels like the show is waiting for someone else to drive the threat/uncertainty. Evil Michele Yeoh didn't seem likely to get away with much.

Pardoning Burnham seemed a bit odd in that it discards the limited pov and status outside the system that she had as a mere specialist. But to be fair given the shit the TOS crew got away with and points above about people on specific ships, maybe it is inevitable.

Given that choice it now feels inevitable that she will eventually be captain. This feels a bit cheap - but given how bad the whole show looked after the early episodes it is hard to complain much.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 09:10:07 AM by eldaec »

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Khaldun
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Reply #357 on: February 13, 2018, 10:42:06 AM

There's a significant problem with pacing when you look at the whole season--the wrap-up on the Klingons was pretty rough. I also think there's an interesting question about just how many people were in on the plan to destroy Kronos--if it's most of Starfleet Command, then that should be a continuing plot point going forward (and it makes you wonder whether pardoning Burnham is an attempt to buy her silence about it).

The fact that top command makes you the most likely person to fail to live up to the Federation's values is such a persistent theme across all Trek that I think that it might almost be time to build in some form of conscious, non-ironic attention to it. One thing that no Trek has paid much attention to is the specifics of how the Federation government and Starfleet relate. If you think about democratic militaries between 1950 and 2016, generally there's two ways that some of the core ethical propositions they are supposed to follow get breached. First is because the top brass and some of the civilian government agree to circumvent those commitments. It's really rare for command staff to decide on their own to do something that has a major chance of having serious political consequences, even in the middle of wars. Douglas MacArthur might be one of the few examples of a general who was inclined to make major decisions independently from civilian authority and it's why he got reigned in. The second is because the rank-and-file commit atrocities or otherwise engage in serious misconduct. The brass may know about it, they may even countenance it or be implicitly ordering it, but frequently this is soldiers in the field simply deciding to do whatever they are doing.

In Trek, partly because the shows are always biased towards the adventures of the Starfleet rank-and-file (or at least the unit commanders of the rank-and-file), ordinary Starfleet crews are rarely shown as strongly breaching Federation regulations or ethics. When they do, as with the Prime Directive, it's usually in a forgiveable way that reflects a genuine, difficult ethical challenge. Sometimes we get the "crazy captain" subspecies of the "crazy admiral", but I'm hard-pressed to think of a "crazy crew" where it's the crew that initiated serious misconduct.

When it's admirals who are not crazy per se but instead are doing 'rationally' unethical things, Trek never makes clear whether the civilian government is in on the decision. The season finale of Discovery might be the first time we get affirmation that at least some parts of the civilian government are completely involved, e.g., Sarek is part of the decision. Given that this is the 'classic' timeline, I don't think you can get a house-cleaning of the Starfleet and Federation leadership in Discovery, there were a lot of bad admirals in Kirk's time as captain (both before and after his own service as admiral). But I really would kind of enjoy it if the series would tackle the whole issue head on in some way.
Surlyboi
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Reply #358 on: February 13, 2018, 10:48:42 AM

Didn't DS9 do that a bit with all the Section 31 stuff?

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Khaldun
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Reply #359 on: February 13, 2018, 12:27:12 PM

A bit. DS9 also finally showed some sympathy for trespassing ethical boundaries, and stopped structuring plots around "The Captain gets to give a speech about why we don't do things like that after kicking the Evil Admiral's ass". Though Voyager incomprehensibly went right back to that with a premise that should have demanded abandoning it.
Gimfain
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Reply #360 on: February 13, 2018, 01:45:57 PM

The build up during the episode felt mediocre and I hated the ending. It should have been a double episode finale, this one was rushed.

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eldaec
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Reply #361 on: January 23, 2019, 04:43:17 PM

So this is back. And good.

- I like Pike.
- I like deadpan engineer lady.
- I even quite liked 'random enterprise douchebag'.
- The story seems much more star trek.
- Even more running and explosions that last year - but it earned it - didn't become not-trek.
- Production values seem up.
- 'Hey there we' re doing religion' was a bit on the nose. But I guess that is no different to the overdone first episodes last year.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
Khaldun
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Reply #362 on: January 23, 2019, 08:49:30 PM

At least they finally stopped using all of the bridge crew as a bunch of nearly-unspeaking props, though we are still miles away from them actually being characters.
Ruvaldt
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Reply #363 on: January 23, 2019, 11:57:21 PM

It's a mixed bag.  Tig Notaro's character and Pike are fun.

I'm kind of Spocked out though and wish they wouldn't go back to that well.  Maybe Sybok'll drop by and spice things up?  awesome, for real

"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
Riggswolfe
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Reply #364 on: January 25, 2019, 05:28:21 PM

It's a mixed bag.  Tig Notaro's character and Pike are fun.

I'm kind of Spocked out though and wish they wouldn't go back to that well.  Maybe Sybok'll drop by and spice things up?  awesome, for real

I know it's silly but that picture of bearded Spock made me groan.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Khaldun
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Reply #365 on: January 25, 2019, 08:53:03 PM

Considering where the series went last season, maybe it's Mirror Spock.
Riggswolfe
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Reply #366 on: January 25, 2019, 09:11:18 PM

Even Mirror Spock only had a goatee. But it'd be funny if they went back to that same well again.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
slog
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Reply #367 on: January 29, 2019, 06:07:52 PM

I'm only 5 episodes into the series but i'm enjoying it.  I like how they don't seem to be sticking to any strict star trek rules that have ruined other trek series.

Edit: the ending to Season 1 Episode 07 was bad.  They should have done a summary execution.  It's war after all
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 07:27:53 PM by slog »

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Ruvaldt
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Reply #368 on: February 05, 2019, 08:12:20 AM

Was that the one with Harry Mudd?  If so, they can't execute him because he appears in two episodes of the original series and one episode of the animated series, all of which happen after Discovery, chronologically.  It'd be like Discovory finding the Botany Bay and killing Khan.

Lorca's decision at the end was really out of character, but I still liked the episode because the time loopy thing felt very Trek.

"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
slog
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Reply #369 on: February 05, 2019, 05:39:01 PM

Was that the one with Harry Mudd?  If so, they can't execute him because he appears in two episodes of the original series and one episode of the animated series, all of which happen after Discovery, chronologically.  It'd be like Discovory finding the Botany Bay and killing Khan.

Lorca's decision at the end was really out of character, but I still liked the episode because the time loopy thing felt very Trek.

Yea I know, but the idea that you can try to takeover the flagship of the fleet in wartime, sell it to the enemy, and not be immediately executed pushes it a bit.

"Die of flaming ass cancer you schmuck. No really, die."

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Khaldun
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Reply #370 on: February 05, 2019, 08:10:15 PM

I'm not exactly surprised that you take a keen interest in Mudd's modus operandi and its consequences.
slog
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Reply #371 on: February 05, 2019, 08:16:02 PM

I'm not exactly surprised that you take a keen interest in Mudd's modus operandi and its consequences.


Do you have to bring your politics everywhere?

It's seriously bad writing:

In wartime, how does that ship just appear right there at the end to pick up Mudd?  No commander is going to allow anything to get close, especially after the captain got captured by a cloaked Klingon ship.  At the very least, there should have been a prison ship (which we have seen already) to take Mudd away.  I get the idea that they writers are trying to inject a little humor, but it just doesn't fit the setting.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 08:26:56 PM by slog »

"Die of flaming ass cancer you schmuck. No really, die."

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eldaec
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Reply #372 on: February 06, 2019, 03:38:48 AM

Seemed like the sort of thing that happens in Star Trek to me and wasn't remotely important to the story of the episode but OK.

"People will not assume that what they read on the internet is trustworthy or that it carries any particular ­assurance or accuracy" - Lord Leveson
"Hyperbole is a cancer" - Lakov Sanite
slog
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Reply #373 on: February 06, 2019, 07:28:53 AM

Seemed like the sort of thing that happens in Star Trek to me and wasn't remotely important to the story of the episode but OK.

Yes you are right.  I was enjoying the the darker Battlestar Galactica type of stories and was hoping they would continue.

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Khaldun
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Reply #374 on: February 06, 2019, 07:39:10 AM

Presumably it was important to Lorca to look like he was still respecting basic Starfleet norms.
Ruvaldt
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Reply #375 on: February 06, 2019, 08:26:59 AM

Seemed like the sort of thing that happens in Star Trek to me and wasn't remotely important to the story of the episode but OK.

Yes you are right.  I was enjoying the the darker Battlestar Galactica type of stories and was hoping they would continue.

Oh, they definitely continue.  But this is still a Star Trek show and you're going to get episodes like that from time to time.

"For a long time now I have tried simply to write the best I can. Sometimes I have good luck and write better than I can." - Ernest Hemingway
Surlyboi
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Reply #376 on: February 08, 2019, 09:12:22 PM

The first episode of this season was good.

The original series reference with the fortune cookie was amazing.

Tuned in, immediately get to watch cringey Ubisoft talking head offering her deepest sympathies to the families impacted by the Orlando shooting while flanked by a man in a giraffe suit and some sort of "horrifically garish neon costumes through the ages" exhibit or something.  We need to stop this fucking planet right now and sort some shit out. -Kail
Teleku
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Reply #377 on: February 10, 2019, 06:11:00 AM

So, I saw this thread popping up and read the last page or so, said what the fuck, and started watching.  Its surprisingly watchable.  I certainly have some issues with it (like, they still haven't done a good job of portraying why everybody thinks Mike is evil and her 5 second failed mutiny that didn't do a damned thing resulted in the war), and they have been slow on getting me to actually like any characters (they are slowly figuring out roles for everybody).  But as I've progressed, it does seem to be getting better.  A Trek with a budget set firmly in established universe is pretty fun.

Though somebody please tell me the Red Head dies a violent and painful death at some point.  Her character drives me up the wall and I literally have to just skip forward on Netflix whenever she has an scene where she speaks.

I'm not exactly surprised that you take a keen interest in Mudd's modus operandi and its consequences.
Do you have to bring your politics everywhere?

It's seriously bad writing:

In wartime, how does that ship just appear right there at the end to pick up Mudd?  No commander is going to allow anything to get close, especially after the captain got captured by a cloaked Klingon ship.  At the very least, there should have been a prison ship (which we have seen already) to take Mudd away.  I get the idea that they writers are trying to inject a little humor, but it just doesn't fit the setting.
So, I think the main issue with this episode is just a tone problem.  Mudd is an over the top 1800's style lovable conman out to steal literal moons if he could.  OK.  If he had just been using the time thing to figure out how to take control of the ship and run circles around the crew in a comical manner, the ending would have been perfect.  Total throw back to old school episodes and a good time.  'Aw gee shucks, you got me.'

However, they showed that he had zero problems with (and actually enjoyed) violently killing shit tons of crew members on every pass, and having no qualms about torturing them in the most painful ways possible with zero remorse.  This makes him also come off as a complete psychopathic animal.  On that front, years of movies and TV have taught us the appropriate end of that episode would be for the crew to trap him into a 30 minute cycle where he slowly and painfully melts from radiation exposure in his shuttle over and over again for the rest of eternity.  The crew smiling and hitting the button to cut off Coms has he screams out nooooo in desperation from his disabled shuttle.  That's how most writers tend to end characters like that, and we've come to expect it.

But instead we got the charming rascal of a conman who isn't malicious, just greedy, ending.  After he spent 45 minutes being Ramsey Bolton.  So, basically, just really off tone writing for what they were trying to go for.

Still enjoyed the episode though!

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Khaldun
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Reply #378 on: February 10, 2019, 08:13:07 PM

I really, really hated the red-haired ensign for the first half of the season--like, I could not stop myself every time she was on screen from saying stuff like "Ensign Sensitive Snowflake" and so on. And then something weird happened--in part because of some of what happened in the season--and lo! I suddenly liked the character quite a bit.
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