Captain America: Civil War

[Soulflame]

I certainly wasn't implying that.  Simply giving an example off of the top of my head that sounded, probably, more amusing than it really is.

I was picturing something like the UN Security Council, which, I think, can be blocked on most actions by a single veto.

[Teleku]

Except both the Chinese and the Russians would be fine in that scenario also.   

[Khaldun]

You could make a pretty fair argument that Captain America didn't need to be involved in the opening incident, that human beings can still deal (or fail to deal) with that kind of terrorism. If Cap's busting Crossbones in Lagos, you kind of have to figrue he could just as well go rescue captured women from Boko Haram while he's in the neighborhood, etc.. But that's where the line that Spider-Man draws is important (and why I think he'll eventually drift to Team Cap anyway): you can't just wait until a threat has already happened--if you have the power, you have to try and do something about it. The non-Accord Avengers could stick to a rule of engagement that limits them to enhanced bad guys, but given that at least some of the Avengers themselves are just guys with fancy military hardware, that's a hard line to draw in the MCU at this point.

[Teleku]

Anyways, while only sort of scanning over these posts so I don't spoil to much, I'll just vent my anger that this film remains unavailable in English language in Russia still with no relief in sight.  Meanwhile, Age of Apocalypse will have English language release on day one.

I'm sure this has to do with Ukraine beating Russia in Eurovision somehow.

[Malakili]

Think of it as additional motivation to learn Russian.

[Teleku]

[Ard]

You've already got the right mindset down, halfway there 

[Rendakor]

Saw this last night, finally. Aside from the complete lack of casualties, it was pretty good. Much better job integrating the wider cast of Avengers while still keeping the focus on Captain America and Bucky. Spidey was great, and I can't wait for his standalone movie.
 

[Lakov_Sanite]

Saw this last night, finally. Aside from the complete lack of casualties,

#Wakandanlivesmatter

[Evildrider]

Saw this last night, finally. Aside from the complete lack of casualties,

#Wakandanlivesmatter

#I'mtheboss

[Rendakor]

I meant of like, real named characters.

[Evildrider]

Meh, you don't have to have character deaths to create drama/tension.  I think a death would have kind of overshadowed the ending and been a reason for everyone to come back together in some fashion.

[Kail]

I meant [deaths] of like, real named characters.

I'm kind of the opposite.  Comic book "deaths" always make me roll my eyes.  Captain America's death was supposed to be the emotional climax of the Civil War comic I think, but it undercut the entire story because EVERYONE in the audience knew they'd be bringing him back in some (ridiculously bullshit) way and make the whole thing irrelevant.  It's pretty much the cheapest way to engineer forced drama and they've pushed that button so many times I have a hard time giving a crap about it anymore.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Death or not in that last fight I really believed despite my knowledge of RDJ being in spiderman that Cap might actually kill Tony.  To me that damn good film making, to make me completely second guess real life for the world they built.

[HaemishM]

I kept expecting them to kill Ant-Man in the airport scene even though I know there's a sequel with Wasp coming out. So yes, good tension-building that didn't need a big hero death.

[MediumHigh]

Why are people so obsessed with people dying in the MCU. These are superheroes not soldiers. The idea that regardless of the number of bullets, lasers, and god like beings crashing in the foreground generally doesn't resolve in anyone with a colored shirt dying is very much part of the genre. Repetition is built in, even if it doesn't make real world sense why the batman is constantly punching the joker in face. Comic books only treat hero deaths as a way to pass the torch to another character, usually shuffling backstories or ethnicity to create  someone new. Only story that comic book line that killed people permanently was the young justice/teen titans comics, which is a comic book trope in and of itself. That any young hero below the age of 21 dies and doesn't come back.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I don't think that's what people mean when they talk about dying.  What people want is consequences, to know there are real stakes because in many superhero movies you know the good guy wins and at the end it's back to the status quo.

[Threash]

Sure, and that can happen when you are fighting bad guys like in Ultron, but in this case a death would have just meant the end of the Avengers franchise. The only one who was actually trying to hurt someone in that fight was Black Panther, everyone else was just playing around. It would actually be weird if anyone died.

[HaemishM]

I thought the ending brought home some serious consequences without needing a death. I mean technically,


Those are pretty big consequences for the universe.

[Soln]

#GoodFranchiseMgmt

In a world where we have the Ghostbusters Reboot on one side, a dirt bike jumping Star Trek on the other, I *yearn* for more MCU films.  Having a predictable night-out-entertaining-flick is worth endorsing vs. a maybe-it-won't-suck-as-much-as-the-trailers-indicate drek.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Saw this yesterday finally, and absolutely loved it. 

Even after having read this thread all along and knowing about some of the issues other folks had with some things, nothing in the movie felt forced or particularly bothered me.  I certainly wasn't expecting what Zemo did when he got to the hidden base, but that whole fight between Cap, Bucky and Iron Man.. that was just pure WOW!  I really did think for a moment that Cap might kill IM there instead of taking out this chest piece.

For having so many characters in it, they really did a good job of not slighting anyone nor did anything feel glossed over either.  It really was a very personal movie with everyone having to decide what they wanted to do with regards to the Accords. T'Challa and Peter Parker both felt like they belonged and weren't add ins or afterthoughts.  The white eyes of his mask changing shape was a bit weird though; that stood out to me.

I did laugh a bit at the off hand remembrance about picking up girls or something between Cap and Bucky.  I was waiting for that scene to see the context because I've seen complaints about it for "ruining" the slash dynamic that they supposedly had by reinforcing their hetero-ness.   

[Mandella]

Just saw it again in a packed theater still. Even better the second time around.

And blame Stark for Spidey's eyes, he's always gotta add something just a little more cool.

[ezrast]

I just saw this too, but thought it sort of sucked. Too much of it was just establishing characters that served no plot purpose other than to line up and punch each other on cue. Hawkeye, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Ant-Man (not that they wasted any time setting him up), and Spider-Man all could have been axed and you wouldn't notice anything was missing.

The bit during the big fight scene where both sides formed up into straight lines and then ran full speed towards each other was incredibly stupid. Hawkeye and Spiderman suddenly deciding to be melee brawlers for the sake of (I assume) a trailer shot does not fall under rule of cool.

The villain mastermind stuff was completely contrived, and this is coming from someone who thought Loki's scheme in the first Avengers was well-done. Real teams of people in real life break up over stupid squabbles all the time; they could have just let the movie be about that without it needing to be a secret plot.

[HaemishM]

I think you may be putting more into the villain's plot than there was. He wasn't trying to do the whole Sokovia Accords thing. He was just trying to contrive to find evidence that Winter Soldier killed Stark's dad, and in that, create a rift between Stark and Cap that would destroy the Avengers. The other shit was just collateral damage.

[WayAbvPar]

Finally watched Winter Soldier last night. This movie makes a hell of a lot more sense now. Also, WS was awesome and I am annoyed I waited so long to see it. At the 1:17 mark when Bucky flips onto an SUV/Hummer, it sideswipes my car's twin- made me laugh. As did the epitaph on NF's grave.

[jgsugden]

Zemo's plan could have gone wrong a thousand different ways.  If Cap just agreed to go quietly with Tony as long as the collected Avengers all went to deal with the 4 Super Soldier threat first, Zemo would have been toast.  They needed a few more controls on his plan to show he knew he was getting Stark, Cap and Winter Soldier together with nobody else present before he decided to stay there.  Heck, even showing him watch news coverage of the hero battle could have done that....

Regardless, I loved the film in general.  They handled moving a lot of protagonists to supporting roles very well.  Every hero in the movie had moments to shine, but it was still clearly a Cap and Iron Man story (I bet that had BvS not been coming out this would have been called Captain America versus Iron Man: Civil War).  I loved the development of Stark, Cap and the entire universe.  The worst thing about it, to me, was that it put the final nails in the coffin for the claim that the TV shows and movies are part of the same universe.  When this movie ignored the TV storylines when there was so much room to address them (even if it was only a line or two of dialogue referencing the growing numbers of Inhumans), it made it clear that the MCU are the movies and the TV is fan faction.  Such a missed opportunity.

  

[Lakov_Sanite]

If more avengers showed up he may very well have released the other winter soldiers.  The thing is with Zemo and his plan/s we don't really know what other contingencies existed or how many things did go wrong/right.  All we do know is most of the movie wouldn't even happen the way it did if the hydra agent just gave zemo the mission report in the beginning.

[Mandella]

If more avengers showed up he may very well have released the other winter soldiers.  The thing is with Zemo and his plan/s we don't really know what other contingencies existed or how many things did go wrong/right.  All we do know is most of the movie wouldn't even happen the way it did if the hydra agent just gave zemo the mission report in the beginning.

Right. I still see Zemo as just being *very* good at playing things by ear -- nudging situations along into one of multiple possible positive outcomes for him. Sure he was planning, but the first scene with him shows how flexible he was. Hydra agent won't talk? Well I've got the book now, so I go with plan B (or C or D or E).

[ezrast]

Finally watched Winter Soldier last night. This movie makes a hell of a lot more sense now.

That was part of my problem; I haven't seen WS or Age of Ultron so I wasn't up to speed on any of the heroes. Maybe I'd have been more okay with all the minor characters coming along for the ride if I'd had more of Bucky's background to ponder.

[01101010]

As my girlfriend said when she got home after seeing this: "I really am not into movies that are made just to set up other movies... I'd rather not invest 2+ hours watching a glorified TV drama." To which I smiled. I am glad I didn't invest my dollars and time into this movie series. Had enough with LoTR.

[Abagadro]

Ya, I really hate it when books have chapters that set up the next chapter I am reading. Totally annoying.

[Margalis]

You have to love it how personally people take it when someone has the gall to not like a precious geek property quite as much as they do.

[Velorath]

I think not liking it is one thing, but it's odd to complain about the 13th film in a series of interlocking franchises (and the 3rd movie within its own franchise) interlocking with other movies.

[Malakili]

This sort of thing has been escalating. I have to admit it's starting to feel a little burdensome to keep up with all the movies so I know what the hell is going on in each new one.

[jgsugden]

2 or 3 movies a year is sooooooooo hard to manage.