Suicide Squad

[NowhereMan]

DC movie problem stems from the fact that there's no real plan or vision for the movies. They kind of know where they want to end up (JLA franchise similar to the Avengers, other movies featuring stand alone heroes/teams) but don't seem to feel they need anything more than a release schedule to get there. It's apparent from watching their movies there's pretty much no editorial oversight, with the result that none of these movies work together. There's no consistency of tone or even character design. There aren't really over arching meta-plots.

I think the biggest part of the reason for it is WB didn't start with an intention of creating a cinematic universe. They had Nolan working on some Batman films at the time Marvel were starting to put out their stuff and saw there was potential for more superhero movies so they farmed out some Superman movies (as that's their biggest IP brand). By the time it became apparent that Marvel were building a huge ass shared universe people were paying lots and lots of money to see part of, WB already had a couple of disparate super hero franchises all set out with no real plan behind unifying or linking them. Rather than risk trying to reboot so soon after setting them WB seem to be trying to take those individual movies as setting up the relationships and their creative directors are basically just ripping out famous storylines to put up on the big screen.

There seems to be a reliance on people's outside knowledge of these characters for dramatic impact rather than establishing a universe or characters through the films. SS is kind of a perfect example of why that can waste potential so much. The comic series worked, in part, because it is a great reversal of our normal view of these villains. They've moved from antagonists to protagonists and they're caught between worse villains and a semi-evil shadowy government body. If at least a couple of the characters had been introduced in other DC movies this one could have worked far better. There would be some identifiable characters and viewers could feel more invested. It would also serve as excellent B-plot fodder for say a JLA movie. As it is the whole thing feels like it's a focus grouped cash grab with zero artistic or creative drive behind it. I'm considering watching it just because the trailers (recent ones) looked good and there's nothing else out there at the moment. Not even sure if I'm that excited for it though.

[IainC]

DC movie problem stems from the fact that there's no real plan or vision for the movies. They kind of know where they want to end up (JLA franchise similar to the Avengers, other movies featuring stand alone heroes/teams) but don't seem to feel they need anything more than a release schedule to get there. It's apparent from watching their movies there's pretty much no editorial oversight, with the result that none of these movies work together. There's no consistency of tone or even character design. There aren't really over arching meta-plots.

I think the biggest part of the reason for it is WB didn't start with an intention of creating a cinematic universe. They had Nolan working on some Batman films at the time Marvel were starting to put out their stuff and saw there was potential for more superhero movies so they farmed out some Superman movies (as that's their biggest IP brand). By the time it became apparent that Marvel were building a huge ass shared universe people were paying lots and lots of money to see part of, WB already had a couple of disparate super hero franchises all set out with no real plan behind unifying or linking them. Rather than risk trying to reboot so soon after setting them WB seem to be trying to take those individual movies as setting up the relationships and their creative directors are basically just ripping out famous storylines to put up on the big screen.

There seems to be a reliance on people's outside knowledge of these characters for dramatic impact rather than establishing a universe or characters through the films. SS is kind of a perfect example of why that can waste potential so much. The comic series worked, in part, because it is a great reversal of our normal view of these villains. They've moved from antagonists to protagonists and they're caught between worse villains and a semi-evil shadowy government body. If at least a couple of the characters had been introduced in other DC movies this one could have worked far better. There would be some identifiable characters and viewers could feel more invested. It would also serve as excellent B-plot fodder for say a JLA movie. As it is the whole thing feels like it's a focus grouped cash grab with zero artistic or creative drive behind it. I'm considering watching it just because the trailers (recent ones) looked good and there's nothing else out there at the moment. Not even sure if I'm that excited for it though.

The other difference is that they just plain suck. I'm sure that both companies have hordes of anti-fun execs min-maxing over every editorial decision but, for whatever reason, DC just seems to be worse at stripping the cool-factor from their movies. Comics are larger than life and deliberately caricatured but DC seem hell-bent on making their stable of characters as boring as possible.

[HaemishM]

Kevin Feige. I think he's the main difference - he "gets it." It helps a fuckload to have a guy signing checks that really does understand there's more to making money in movies than just ticking all the boxes on the focus group list.

[Paelos]

So I'm guessing I shouldn't go see this on the weekend. Okay then. I'll probably go see Jason Bourne.

[Merusk]

Kevin Feige. I think he's the main difference - he "gets it." It helps a fuckload to have a guy signing checks that really does understand there's more to making money in movies than just ticking all the boxes on the focus group list.

That requires more than a business degree and a love of money, though. Feige has an evident understanding and affection for not only comics but making movies from the artistic side.

[Lakov_Sanite]

So I'm guessing I shouldn't go see this on the weekend. Okay then. I'll probably go see Jason Bourne.

I have bad news for you...

[Bunk]

My quick review:

Plot and direction are a hot mess. Some characters get ten minute back stories, others get "oh yeah, and he's on the team too". It's very obviously the Deadshot and Harley Movie.
Joker was fine, Flag was miscast and pointless. Smith was good, Robbie was outstanding (with what she had to work with). Nailed the character - by far the most loyal to the comics/show.

Biggest problem was that tying it in to the Justice League stuff forced them to use a big bad meta-human as the main villain - which just doesn't play to Suicide Squad's strengths. They don't really work as a Super Power Mega Brawl team, and it felt shoehorned in.

I enjoyed it a ton, but I have poor taste and can totally understand why others wouldn't. Still liked it better than Age of Apocalypse.

[K9]

Saw this at a midnight screening. I'll echo most of what the others have said, the film's pacing is a hot mess and you really have to struggle to be invested in any of the characters. Similarly, if not for the widely-known canon surrounding this the film would be borderline incoherent, in particular the Joker's character which - rightly or wrongly - makes almost zero sense within the context of the movie. With so many characters to introduce and setup, and the obligatory 30-minute long action sequences, there's not enough time left for much actual plot, and what story there is feels like a race to get from one piece of visual spectacle to the next.

I'll give Margot Robbie and Will Smith credit for their performances, but they're both great actors and I'd be disappointed with anything less. I think the performance I personally enjoyed was Jay Hernandez as Diablo. Despite having very little narrative space within the film, I felt he was arguably the most effective and convincing anti-hero, and I genuinely felt a degree of sympathy for him. I'd have liked to have seen more of him. The other's were a forgettable mess, the beer-drinking Australian, the katana-wielding honour-obsessed ninja girl, and the Navy Seal chap all felt like retreads of the most tired tropes imaginable, and all felt very one dimensional as characters. Even the moment near the end which is clearly supposed to invoke pathos barely registers, and is immediately undercut.

The action scenes are pretty unremarkable, filling a series of nondescript streets and offices in an entirely nondescript city. It's just a lot of the most generic shooty shooty bang bang I've ever seen.

Lastly, Cara Delvigne seems to have been cast for her good looks and her particular ability to make very strange arm motions, and not much else.

[Velorath]

I thought it was fun but I can get why people don't like it.  It didn't really bother me that some of the characters weren't that fleshed out. I don't think I would have found the movie more enjoyable if Killer Croc had been developed more. Some characters are more important than others, that's fine. I think the biggest issue I had was that the cannon fodder minions the Squad fights in most of the action sequences don't really make for interesting fights. Also Waller's central concept of Task Force X seems to be to use Metas to fight Metas, but that doesn't really justify why they need someone like Harley around who is swinging a baseball bat most of the time.

[MediumHigh]

Does anyone actually die in this movie?

[K9]

Does anyone actually die in this movie?

[Bunk]

[Merusk]

The best thing to come from 'Suicide Squad' will be the influx of Harley Quinn costumes this Halloween.

I agree. Even though most will be of the same age as my daughter, making me a lecherous pervert.

[Polysorbate80]

That will also be the worst thing, when it's worn by a sweaty 400 pound guy.

You know it will happen.

[Father mike]

Aieeeeeeh, the Sailor Moon flashbacks!!!

[01101010]

Well I'm sold, Angry Joe loved it. 

[Megrim]

I wish they'd stop making these as big money blockbusters. Just bite the bullet, make it R+ and go from there. Sighface.

Main problem for me was, while Will Smith is a good actor, he is too nice and always shoehorns the good guy family man routine into everything he does now. I've been reliably told that this is actually true to the comic, but this is one instance where they should have gone in a different direction. Doing the movie with him as the main character is just awkward. Main pov would have been better done with the soldierman as having to wrangle the psychopaths (since the story was about his girlfriend anyway), or just go full ham and do it from HQ's point of view, with her shifting between the real and unreal.

They also needed to straight up cut a whole bunch of characters. Cut boomerang guy, cut croc, cut explodey head man, cut katana (heh). Leave Diablo - most people will probably agree he was actually really well done, leave HQ and Deadshot as the main killers. That way they could have just focused on main story of soldierman trying to save girl, with a bunch of lunatics along for the ride.

Anyway, I'm not even the main target audience for this, but at least it was better than Age of Ultron.

[MediumHigh]

Does anyone actually die in this movie?

Really, really lacking a reason to watch this.

[Sir T]

I prescribe several viewings of the Dirty Dozen for the people involved in this.

I saw a comment somewhere that while Marvel has the Live action stuff sewn up for now, DC's animated content is far better than the Marvel animated content. Its like the DC Amimated guys are doing what the Live action crew cant do, and the Marvel Animated stuff is like the DC Live action crew.

[Riggswolfe]

I prescribe several viewings of the Dirty Dozen for the people involved in this.

I saw a comment somewhere that while Marvel has the Live action stuff sewn up for now, DC's animated content is far better than the Marvel animated content. Its like the DC Amimated guys are doing what the Live action crew cant do, and the Marvel Animated stuff is like the DC Live action crew.

I'd also argue that for live TV DC is better than Marvel. (I had to narrow it down because the Netflix stuff is outstanding.)

[Teleku]

...... Doesn't that narrow it down to just Agents of Shield?

[Flood]

I went to an early AM showing on Friday to cut down on the amount of the unwashed masses I had to be exposed to and still try and watch the movie.  In retrospect, and having some time to mull over my opinion(s), I guess I'm probably more of a fanboy than I realized.  I'm glad I caught it in the theater.

That all being said - I'm somewhere between K9 and Velorath on the movie.  K9 in particualr enunciated some of the specific aspects of the movie.  I enjoyed it, it had some neat parts.  But they were mixed in with what was an overall disjointed mash of things.  As a former comic collector and someone pretty familiar with the DC mythos I'm probably more of the target audience but yeah - clean up the flow of the film, more Joker, better villains / fight scenes (faceless zombies, lame).  To me it could have had a longer running time.  I'm hoping that the DVD release will have some sort of Director's Cut that will add some of these rumored deleted scenes.

Another example (for me) of a movie that was right in my wheelhouse of interests but was "alright" by dint of nothing being overtly awful. 

[HaemishM]

You know what? Fuck the critics. All the criticisms I'm seeing of this movie were right, BUT... it was still a good movie. It beats the shit out of BVS (not hard) in that at least it's a coherent plot, with characters whose motivations are fairly clear and make some goddamn sense. There are clear red shirts in the team, and it does feel choppy in places. The Joker is mostly there to provide a reason for Harley Quinn to be there and so we don't really get a good feel for Leto's take on the character. The action scenes are mostly pedestrian with a few good moments.

All that said, it is still worth watching. It got the main beats from the comic down, it had some cool characters that I want more of (Katana, Croc and Boomerang are somewhat underused but we got enough to want more) and it moved along at a good pace. I thought both Will Smith's Deadshot and particularly Robbie's Harley Quinn were OUTSTANDING. Deadshot is absolutely straight out of the comics, especially the part with his daughter and I thought they fit it well to the character. Diablo started out as a bit character but by the end, he was also one of my favorites.

Harley Quinn, though, was the absolute breakout star of this. She was fantastic. The writing, the quips, the acting, all top notch (and yes, holy shit is she CRAZY HOT). She's the craziest of them all and yet her motivations are the most clear. If Joker and HQ are not part of the next Batman movie, someone needs to be slapped hard.

[KallDrexx]

Jesus christ this was so bad.  I'm pretty sure it was edited by a monkey.  There was no flow, the random cuts to backstory were poorly done, and done in a way where you couldn't tell the scene you just abruptly cut to was a flashback or current time, they tied random scenes together with music that had no purpose being cut together.  They hid enchantress bolting just so they could revisit that scene as some big reveal that there was a bomb under the subway is wtf.  You can also very easily tell what parts they reshot to make funny, and they were not funny in the slightest.

I think they could have had actually made a good movie with what they shot for the most part if they didn't fuck the editing up so badly.

[MediumHigh]

So girlfriend being a Harley quin fan dragged me to this. Boy was this uninterested. Its a solid 6/10 but I highly doubt they can revisit this again. The dialogue was straight bad. Like written by a 13 year old with a 5th grade education and just realized his computer won't melt when you watch porn. If there is a "R" cut for this i'll save my brain cells. Will Smith spent very little time acting and they took literally all the edge from deadshot character. Harley quin works I guess. She doesn't save the movie, despite having unofficial main character status, nor does she hurt the movie either. In hindsight there is very little going on in this movie, the fact that her subplot takes up 1/3rd of the run time points to a very simple reason why this movie has mixed reviews.

You either came for Harley Quin or you came for the Suicide Squad. If you came for the latter than your going to be rather disappointed. If you expected a vehicle for the extension of the batman universe and yes Harley Quin, than you got your spring board. Also to note this Harley Quin works with this incarnation Joker. Which is the worst "you don't really get it do you" interpretation I have ever bare witness too, easily knocking DC Movies version of Superman out of that coveted spot. I feel the joker shouldn't twitch like that. I mean I just got caught up to The Strain and looking at this joker wondering when will a tongue snake make escape velocity out of his mouth. Why can't the joker make complete sentences???

[IainC]

[Merusk]

Just saw this. I rate it around IM 2. Leagues better than BvS, but still failing in some places. It was entertaining but the cuts for the comedy stood out pretty hard. We got TWO introductions to the characters that mattered. The Reshoot and the Original script. Probably should have cut one of those out.

The music also seemed ripped directly out of the trailers and overlaid into some scenes as a way of creating a connection to what people liked. I don't believe for a moment any of the Rock was in there before the reshoots.

I disagree with anyone who says we didn't get enough of Leto's Joker to make a judgement. We got plenty of him. We see how he acts, schemes, and interacts with henches, other Criminals, and Harley. He's a very different take, very slick and sexualized. This is a Joker who fucks. I never saw any sexual charisma out of other Jokers, they were all madness and depraved indifference to all things human. The only thing that mattered was the Joke that is life and death, or power and the illusion of it.

I can't say I'm a huge fan of the characterization, since it lost some of the madness along the way. He was intense and focused on his woman rather than totally insane. Still the obsession part was there and done well. The only complaint I've really got is it felt more like Leto was trying to channel Ledger into that than make it totally his own. Rather than making it totally his own, several scenes seemed like he was shown a performance of other Jokers and and tried to meld them together rather than coming up with his own take.

Same complaints about Robbie's Harley accent. It slips a few places pretty badly. She was trying to portray the voice actress' Harley rather than a Jersey/ Bronx accent.

Waller was a lot darker than I expected. This is not the Amanda I knew from the DC TV days. Is this how she is in the comics? The scene in the tower was a bit jarring but added a LOT to the character. Combined with the after-credits scene this is totally a woman I can see as the antithesis of Bruce Wayne.

The rest of the movie was there. The twists were predictable, as noted, but I don't go to see a comic movie for the complex plotting. I was entertained enough and give it a 6/10. It was better than X-Men: Apocalypse and far better than I'd been expecting it to be.

[KallDrexx]

[Bunk]

Waller is a complete psycho power-mad bitch in the comics, they toned her down in this.

I agree with a bunch of the criticisms and I think they mostly come because Suicide Squad vs Superbad makes no sense. It should have been a Mission Impossible/Caper type of plot. The last cartoon I saw got it right, invading Arkham.
Boomerang was pointless here because the guy's a dam jewel thief - what the hell do they have him along for - to throw one gimmicked boomerang? He needed to be there because he's iconic to the original comic, but it made no sense.

Also, waaay to much effort to tone down the violence and criminal aspect of the characters, with the faceless minions and all. This really should have been a hard R movie.

I still enjoyed it though.

[HaemishM]

The guy who can climb was actually named as Slipknot. Yeah, he was just as useless in the comics.  He basically got played by Boomerang here as a test to see if they were shitting about the neck bombs.

Apparently there was a shitload more stuff shot for the Joker that wasn't used - according to Leto like an entire movie focused just on the Joker's worth. Maybe we'll see some of that in a director's cut blu-ray.

[Furiously]

So any of you see The Killing Joke yet? How is the real Joker?

[Velorath]

So any of you see The Killing Joke yet? How is the real Joker?

The Killing Joke was terrible.

[Strazos]

I give this movie a strong "Meh." Harley and Deadshot were decent, thought Enchantress was well-done. For all the hype, Joker had very little screen time or impact. Diablo was cool; turning into an Aztec avatar was a nice touch. The rest of the characters were forgettable throwaways. The actual shooting and plot were a complete mess.

Note - I have not seen Man of Steel, or BvS

[HaemishM]

I'd put this movie as much better than BVS, about on par with MoS though MoS was a little better shot with better action set pieces.

[Bunk]

$135 Million domestic debut. Smashed August records. Shows how much bad reviews really matter.