Fantastic Four (Man of Steel Edition) (2015)

[01101010]

Darth Vader was fully masked way back in 1977.  You'd think someone could manage a fully masked Doom today.

And you'd be hard pressed to find anyone outside of rabid fanboys who know the actor's name inside that mask. Hell, I'd bet most people think it was Jones.

[jgsugden]

It'd be interesting to see a Netflix series about Villains that gives us some extra time developing the villains of the MCU. It could lay bonus groundwork for villains in upcoming movies. It could give us some time to catch up with Villains that have not been seen in a while. It could tell stand alone stories about villains that don't need a hero to tell interesting stories. A few antiheroes like Black Cat that cover both sided of the coin could also get some time...

[DraconianOne]

Darth Vader was fully masked way back in 1977.  You'd think someone could manage a fully masked Doom today.

And you'd be hard pressed to find anyone outside of rabid fanboys who know the actor's name inside that mask. Hell, I'd bet most people think it was Jones.

Only outside the UK. For people of a certain age in the UK, he'll always be the Green Cross Code Man.

[Nevermore]

Darth Vader was fully masked way back in 1977.  You'd think someone could manage a fully masked Doom today.

And you'd be hard pressed to find anyone outside of rabid fanboys who know the actor's name inside that mask. Hell, I'd bet most people think it was Jones.

So?

[HaemishM]

The problems with Doom in both iterations of the FF movies has hardly been related to the actor or whether or not he has a goddamn mask. Visually, both Doom's have been shit, but the real killer seems to have been the writer's and director's inability to make the character worth a shit. Both seem to apologize for having the villain in there and have tried to take him completely out of the comic roots or any sort of 4-color characterizations.

Superhero movie writers and directors need to either stop being embarrassed of doing superhero movies or don't do them at all. Here's a hint - if you hate the very concept of superheroes, don't take a job that forces you to work on a tentpole franchise type superhero movie. Do something small and indy like Super.

[DevilsAdvocate25]

Films do have a complicated problem with fully-masked villains. Not many actors want to take a role where you don't see them very much, especially a role where the mask conceals everything about the face. It takes away your biggest tool as an actor, and you can't use some of the same visual tricks the comics can to give a masked character facially-registered emotions.

But also you just can't do Doom or the Fantastic Four unless you're willing to go full comic-book. There's no halfway or dialed down version of Doom that works.

Don't forget V for Vendetta either. Hugo Weaving is outstanding playing V and he is masked the whole movie.

Darth Vader was fully masked way back in 1977.  You'd think someone could manage a fully masked Doom today.

Another excellent masked character that got a lot out of color and shape and light.

[Threash]

Hugo Weaving would make a great Doom.  The only way Doom works is if you go all out with him, like his marvel heroes version.

[Khaldun]

Yeah, it's a solveable problem.

I think that doing Doom right is just a matter of right actor, right screenwriter. I almost imagine him like a more malevolent Doctor Who. In fact, Matt Smith would be pretty good in the role. Basically imagine Elon Musk combined with Stalin and combine that with the relationship between Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, or Teller and Oppenheimer. Weaving would also be good.

Which also makes me think that Reed Richards needs to be the Oppenheimer--more principled, maybe a bit less of a genius but also a slow-and-steady wins the race.

[kaid]

Hugo Weaving would make a great Doom.  The only way Doom works is if you go all out with him, like his marvel heroes version.

Doom does not tolerate those unwilling to fully commit.

[Slyfeind]

I'm starting to think the only way you can do a Fantastic Four movie is to actually make a Doctor Doom movie and have the Fantastic Four be the antagonists.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'm starting to think the only way you can do a Fantastic Four movie is to actually make a Doctor Doom movie and have the Fantastic Four be the antagonists.

Day one viewing.

[Fordel]

Doom basically just needs to be competent, excessively so. Like Doom's baseline would be the lifelong goal of another villainous organization.



I'm kind of amazed this latest FF movie is somehow worse then all expectations. Those expectations were already like rock bottom low and it's managed to dig itself underneath them.

[Threash]

Doom basically just needs to be competent, excessively so. Like Doom's baseline would be the lifelong goal of another villainous organization.

Excessively competent, excessively arrogant, speaks in third person, the only reason he is not a joke is because he can actually completely back up his shit talking and arrogance.

[SurfD]

Doom basically just needs to be competent, excessively so. Like Doom's baseline would be the lifelong goal of another villainous organization.

Excessively compete tent, excessively arrogant, speaks in third person, the only reason he is not a joke is because he can actually completely back up his shit talking and arrogance.

Basicly an evil Tony Stark.

[Khaldun]

This. That's what it needs--someone w/Downey Jr.'s cockiness but without any of the saving graces. Doom in the films has to be kind of fun, in an odd way--more fun than he is in the comics, where if you're paying attention he actually fucks up quite a bit and sometimes rather hilariously so. (Though right now he's doing a pretty good job of uber competence on a cosmic scale).

[Fordel]

To put it another way, while lots of villains claim that they should rule the world because they would do a better job of it... when Doom says that he might actually have a case.

[Mattemeo]

And in news that surprised literally fucking nobody, Fox are doubling down. From CBR:

"While we're disappointed, we remain committed to these characters and we have a lot to look forward to in our Marvel universe," Fox domestic distribution chief Chris Aronson told Hollywood Reporter. Although, he declined to comment specifically on the state of "Fantastic Four 2."

Aronson also spoke with The New York Times about the franchise's future, saying "We love these characters, and we will find ways to make use of them."

You have no idea what to do with these characters, you grasping fuckwits.

Honestly, this would be understandable if it was just the one fuck-up, but all 3 (technically 4) Fantastic Four movies have been a case of severely declining diminishing returns, both in gross and in critical and audience perception. Clearly they believe they can offset their FF related losses enough that flipping the bird at Disney is somehow a financially viable business move.

[Velorath]

This is about all you could expect them to say, especially while the movie is still in theaters. Even if they've decided they're done trying and would entertain an offer from Disney, publicly saying that they're ready to cut the franchise loose would only weaken their end of the negotiations.

[Yegolev]

WE HAVE SO MANY PLANS FOR THESE SHITTY MOVIES YOU WILL HAVE TO OFFER US SO MUCH $$$ WE LOVE FF4 NOM NOM

[Merusk]

At this point I'm going to assume Fox execs are the same guys who sit at a slot machine feeding quarters in forever.

It will pay off eventually. The machine will get hot ANY MINUTE. Just gotta keep plugging away.

[Yegolev]

I think they just don't care enough except to infuriate the fans into indirectly demanding someone buy the franchise from them.  Or: they love money, not movies.

[sickrubik]

Hey guys, maybe the Fantastic Four just suck.

Spoiler: They do.

[Fordel]

The Fox executives and the Marvel/Disney executives despise each other as people. They are going to keep making FF movies and hold onto the rights purely on spite.

[Mattemeo]

Hey guys, maybe the Fantastic Four just suck.

Spoiler: They do.

I got no love for the FF. I just want Doom. The MCU needs another villain you can actually root for besides Loki. And Fox clearly have no idea what they own.

[Velorath]

The Fox executives and the Marvel/Disney executives despise each other as people. They are going to keep making FF movies and hold onto the rights purely on spite.

They're on ok enough terms that Fox seems to think their negotiations for the X-Men TV series are going well.

Amazing Spider-man 2 made $700 million, presumably making it profitable if not as much as Sony would have liked, and they still ended up having to work out a deal with Disney. FF just lost Fox a fuckload of money, plus they already want a favor from Disney. Like others have said, I think the FF themselves are probably the least valuable part of their franchise (Doom, the Skrulls, Galactus, the Silver Surfer and probably by extension all the Heralds and other members of Surfers supporting cast, I would assume the Watcher, and who knows what else), but I'd be very surprised if Fox doesn't make a deal with Marvel giving them back the rights within the next year.

Edit: Snipped out some numbers for now that were confusingly listed on Boxofficemojo. Will correct and reinsert later (their website is having some problems at the moment).

[eldaec]

You're assuming anything other than the F4 themselves is off limits to disney.

Based on the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver thing, it seems more likely anyone who has been in a book outside of F4 is fair game. Not that anything on that list except Doom is really worth arguing over.

But if I were Disney I'd leave Fox to it, they really are not short on characters, and spending any effort on C listers like F4 when Wolverine is still out there makes no sense. That said, spending time and money on Spiderman at this point in time also makes no sense to me.

[jgsugden]

For me, getting the F4 back is more about getting the villains, realms, and peripherals from the F4, but I do think Marvel could do something good with the F4. I'd love to see them get the rights back and to see F4 be film 2 of phase 4.

[Velorath]

You're assuming anything other than the F4 themselves is off limits to disney.

Based on the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver thing, it seems more likely anyone who has been in a book outside of F4 is fair game. Not that anything on that list except Doom is really worth arguing over.

But if I were Disney I'd leave Fox to it, they really are not short on characters, and spending any effort on C listers like F4 when Wolverine is still out there makes no sense. That said, spending time and money on Spiderman at this point in time also makes no sense to me.

Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver seem to be the exception rather than the rule when it comes to the deals they made. That situation wasn't as simple as "well these characters appeared in a book outside X-men". Those characters have been a part of the Avengers since shortly after the book started (Scarlet Witch in particular has been pretty important throughout the majority of the Avengers 50+ year history).

[Strazos]

Saw this over the weekend and wow...it just feels so...empty. 

I had to check online to confirm it's not part of the MCU, which makes a lot of sense considering how soulless it felt.

[jgsugden]

Frank has apparently retained counsel ... I think the story behind the scenes will make b a better movie than the movie.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Frank has apparently retained counsel ... I think the story behind the scenes will make b a better movie than the movie.

You mean Trank?

[jgsugden]

Yes... autocorrect when I am on my phone is a pain.

[HaemishM]

More Gossip About the Production Problems on FF4

Some of that shit is cray cray. Telling actors when to blink and breathe. No thanks, Stanley Foobrick, we can do that all on our own. It also looks like while Trank may well be a moonbat fuckwit, Fox's lack of vision on this contributed as much to the failure as anything Josh CrazyPants did.

[jgsugden]

If you're telling them when to breathe and blink in almost every scene, it is crazy. If you're giving them direction for the second take after they do something weird on first, it isn't weird at all. Heck, there are directions where to blink and breathe written into some scripts for certain deliberate scenes. I'm guessing that those directions from him would have been no big deal had thew cast and crew liked and respected him. The real problem seems to be that he wanted the control he had over Chronicle and became unlikable when the studio took over. I hope he manages to leak the script from the version he liked so that people can see what he envisioned. I'd rather read it than see what was released at this point.

[DraconianOne]

Heck, there are directions where to blink and breathe written into some scripts for certain deliberate scenes.

Usually by bad writers.

Edit: also, sweeping generalizations needs specific examples. What scripts? Curiosity compels me to ask so I can read them.