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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: Crowfall aka Play2Crush aka Shadowbane II aka Nostalgia Online 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Crowfall aka Play2Crush aka Shadowbane II aka Nostalgia Online  (Read 85304 times)
Rendakor
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Reply #1330 on: May 17, 2017, 05:12:44 PM

Is it playable long term yet, or still in beta weekends only? I KS'd it but can't be arsed so far because weekends aren't great for me to MMO.

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Threash
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Reply #1331 on: May 17, 2017, 06:45:18 PM

Well I'll be damned, this game might easily never come out

On what are you possibly basing this on?

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Raph
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Title delayed while we "find the fun."


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Reply #1332 on: May 17, 2017, 07:00:33 PM

Is it playable long term yet, or still in beta weekends only? I KS'd it but can't be arsed so far because weekends aren't great for me to MMO.

It's still not 24/7 but it was open for a snap test today actually. Schedule is here: https://www.crowfall.com/en/playtest-schedule/
Falconeer
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Reply #1333 on: May 18, 2017, 07:21:35 AM

I am pretty sure it will come out but you really never know these days, or in what state it will be released. When I backed it I thought/hoped it could raise more money, but after a while I was under the impression it simply wasn't making enough cash to keep the premises/promises. I want this one to succeed as I put money in it (and I put money in it because I loved all the ideas) but I'm afraid it could be too ambitious and this revamp seems even more ambitious.

Well I'll be damned, this game might easily never come out

On what are you possibly basing this on?

We had this disagreement before me and you. You think/thought that for a pre-alpha it was coming up pretty good, I thought that even for a pre-alpha it was bad and not going in the right direction. No reason in trying to argue over it in such an unfinished state all over again.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 07:24:28 AM by Falconeer »

Threash
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Reply #1334 on: May 18, 2017, 08:02:38 AM

There is a difference between not liking the direction they are going and thinking the game is not going to come out.

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Falconeer
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Reply #1335 on: May 18, 2017, 08:19:55 AM

As if that were the only reason I mentioned for my doubts.

Triforcer
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Reply #1336 on: May 18, 2017, 06:52:50 PM

As if that were the only reason I mentioned for my doubts.

If they were struggling to keep the lights on and weeks/months away from running out of money, why would they do this ambitious revamp?  It wasn't accompanied by a new funding plea and since the announcement their running tally is only up 5,000 or so.  If anything, the revamp proves they AREN'T in money trouble.

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Raph
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Title delayed while we "find the fun."


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Reply #1337 on: May 19, 2017, 12:20:28 AM

For those who haven't been watching closely, Crowfall has an international publishing deal and recently did a Title III raise.
Draegan
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Reply #1338 on: May 19, 2017, 03:30:20 AM

I haven't looked in a while but is combat still kinda meh?
Raph
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Reply #1339 on: May 19, 2017, 10:11:58 AM

It's changed quite a lot. Depends when you looked in. I would say "no, it is not meh." It's actually a bit too frantic for me, I am very bad at it. :)
Threash
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Reply #1340 on: May 19, 2017, 11:14:32 AM

Hard to say what someone else is going to consider meh, it is action combat and it has improved a lot from previous builds.

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Draegan
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Reply #1341 on: May 19, 2017, 11:43:12 AM

I like action combat.

Combat was essentially RMB, LMB, 1-6 then a few keys for Dodge and utility or something.

Then many skills had chains where you hit the same number key again or E for another branch for each level of the chain.

Very disjointed. Too many keys.

I thought BDO had an amazing setup. With TERA just behind it.
Falconeer
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Reply #1342 on: May 19, 2017, 12:41:12 PM

I haven't looked in a while but is combat still kinda meh?

Combat is much better than it was 6-12 months ago but it still has a long long way to go.

EDIT: It is not and won't ever be TERA, BDO, Blade & Soul.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 12:43:12 PM by Falconeer »

Threash
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Reply #1343 on: May 19, 2017, 02:03:28 PM

Combat was essentially RMB, LMB, 1-6 then a few keys for Dodge and utility or something.

Then many skills had chains where you hit the same number key again or E for another branch for each level of the chain.


It's still this and I don't think there is any plan to change.

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Draegan
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Reply #1344 on: May 20, 2017, 05:34:47 AM

That's a shame because for me personally the combat control scheme is uninspiring. It's clunky and doesn't flow properly.

They should either reach for blade and soul, Tera, bdo or go for something simple like mobas (three abilities and an ult, then include long cooldown utilitelies from items or whatever).
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 05:37:08 AM by Draegan »
Triforcer
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Reply #1345 on: May 22, 2017, 04:32:50 PM

My mini-rant on combat expectations:

Crowfall (or any MMO) will never, ever, ever be able to satisfy the people whose essential position is "because technology, every MMO from now on should be a pure MMOFPS".   If they spent every single penny of their 12 million on combat and they couldn't create the first fully functioning MMOFPS with that, people would still be unhappy.  Its a fool's game to try to please those people.

What people never seem to grasp is that it is impossible (or nearly so) to have a twitch game where macro-strategy matters.   The more twitch you have, the less strategy-rich your game must be.  

I am having trouble posting pictures, but the best illustration of this I ever saw was a picture of a TF2 pyro two feet away from a sniper (who was scoped in facing the other direction).  The caption said "Some people believe the sniper should have a 50% chance to win this fight.  Those people are insane".  

And that's the essential divide.  Some people believe that you should be able to salvage absolutely any situation with a no-scope flick headshot (or its equivalent).  But if your game allows that, then nothing leading up to your no-scope flick headshot matters.  It doesn't matter if you/your group have countering classes/skills, engage on favorable terrain/terms, etc. if your victim can beat all of it with no-scope flick headshots.  This is why I despise COD and all similar games.  And if Crowfall is too twitch, having 100 disciplines and infinite customization won't matter because the most red-bull fueled side will win.        

To be fair, Overwatch and Paladins get away from this (it was a long, cold 10 years after TF2 for shooters before they came along).   But MMO players still seem to be stuck in the mindset that more technology always makes MMO combat better, and it absolutely does not.  I am in an extreme minority on this, but I would have been fine with tab-target combat and have the devs concentrate on the SB metagame aspects.  As it is, beyond obvious stuff (bug fixing, lag, extreme class imbalances, etc.) there is no need for the Crowfall devs to spend any more time on combat.  


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Rendakor
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Reply #1346 on: May 22, 2017, 05:21:35 PM

I haven't touched CF yet but I'm with Triforcer. If I want a twitch game, I'll play a twitch game. I don't mind tab-target combat in my MMO if the other gameplay systems are interesting.

Check out my podcast: ADD&D, Attention Deficit Dungeons & Dragons!
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Draegan
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Reply #1347 on: May 23, 2017, 04:45:40 AM

Seems like you never played BDO which is probably the best twitch combat for an MMO ever imo.

Tera was pretty good.
Blade and Soul was pretty interesting too.

You don't have to reinvent the wheel just build on top of what's out there.

Rendakor
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Reply #1348 on: May 23, 2017, 05:27:07 AM

BDO is great, and I'm actually playing it again right now. But not every game has to be that.

Check out my podcast: ADD&D, Attention Deficit Dungeons & Dragons!
"I think it's time for a dose of F13 RED PILL MOTHER FUCKERS" ~cosapi
Threash
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Reply #1349 on: May 23, 2017, 06:51:52 AM

Seems like you never played BDO which is probably the best twitch combat for an MMO ever imo.

Tera was pretty good.
Blade and Soul was pretty interesting too.

You don't have to reinvent the wheel just build on top of what's out there.



You are missing the point of his post.  BDO combat was amazing, so was Tera and Blade and Soul, all three games are still shit.  The most "fun" combat I've had in years was on Age of Wushu and it was straight up tab target cooldown based combat, but it required strategy and knowledge of your opponent.

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Draegan
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Reply #1350 on: May 23, 2017, 12:52:02 PM

BDO is great, and I'm actually playing it again right now. But not every game has to be that.

What does this reply mean? Crowfall was designed for action/twitch combat, essentially fps style. Their combat system is bad in my opinion. There are a few different styles like B&S that is better. Even tab target hybrid like GW2 is better.

The fundamental design is flawed imo.
Draegan
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Reply #1351 on: May 23, 2017, 12:54:02 PM

Seems like you never played BDO which is probably the best twitch combat for an MMO ever imo.

Tera was pretty good.
Blade and Soul was pretty interesting too.

You don't have to reinvent the wheel just build on top of what's out there.



You are missing the point of his post.  BDO combat was amazing, so was Tera and Blade and Soul, all three games are still shit.  The most "fun" combat I've had in years was on Age of Wushu and it was straight up tab target cooldown based combat, but it required strategy and knowledge of your opponent.

I'm not talking about the game, I was talking about combat control and fundamentals. Crowfall game design and over all system interdependence is what I find extremely interesting. BDO the game is bad for the most part, I agree, but I'm not talking game design.
Rendakor
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Reply #1352 on: May 23, 2017, 01:51:35 PM

BDO is great, and I'm actually playing it again right now. But not every game has to be that.

What does this reply mean? Crowfall was designed for action/twitch combat, essentially fps style. Their combat system is bad in my opinion. There are a few different styles like B&S that is better. Even tab target hybrid like GW2 is better.

The fundamental design is flawed imo.
The selling point of Crowfall, for me, is the world PVP stuff: resetting servers, RvR/GvG, heavy focus on crafting and player economy, etc. If all those things are good, I will give mediocre combat a pass.

I haven't actually played CF yet, but as long as the combat is playable (and I have a low bar for playable) I can enjoy the game.

Check out my podcast: ADD&D, Attention Deficit Dungeons & Dragons!
"I think it's time for a dose of F13 RED PILL MOTHER FUCKERS" ~cosapi
Falconeer
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Reply #1353 on: May 23, 2017, 04:39:46 PM

Albion Online has 90s graphics and a ridiculous combat, but the sandbox and PvP mechanics save it and deliver a very good game. I think we can all agree that no one got interested in Crowfall for the combat, and if they chose to go tab-target and all it would have probably collected the same amount of pledges and preorders. Yet since they chose to go with an action-based combat it's hard not to have hopes and expectations (and eventually disappointments). Simply put, a dull "action" combat is worse and more depressing than a dull tab-target combat.

Draegan
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Reply #1354 on: May 23, 2017, 06:31:13 PM

Fair point. I'd rather have an average to good tab target system (I hate tab target) than a really shitty action system that makes the game unfun to play.
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