FIFA World Cup 2014 (Brazil) SPOILERS: Read at own risk

[sigil]

The USA squeaked by Ghana but they won it on a set piece so I give them credit. They fucked up against Portugal and lost to Germany. They'll go out first game, 3-0 to Belgium.

Keep selling them short, eventually you folks will be right.

[Abagadro]

The team is basically getting by on guts from what it looks like to me. Which can take you a ways, but eventually they will have to put together two things: 1) not making boneheaded plays in the first 5 minutes/last 5 minutes; and 2) string together some possession passing and connecting it to runs into the box.   

[rk47]

Solid set piece + resolute defense.
less talented teams make it with just that.
Remember Greece?

It's just the lapses on concentration will cost them dearly.
The moment you let in a goal, defense would just open up the floodgates..

[Hoax]

Thanks for proving my point, soccer fans.

Remain in wonder as the game fades to the background for another four years.

Also:

 If only there were a method of sending information from the game clock controlled by the ref through the aether to some mysterious device that could display it for all. No negative count or plus time required.

If only such methods existed on this frail mortal coil.

I could bother to explain why things work the way they do but honestly just fuck off. You will not be missed. 

[rk47]

[Sjofn]

Little towns with 2000 people have teams participating in youth soccer leagues but only the richest/biggest schools in suburbia tend to have the sport available at the high school level.

Wow, is that really true? I lived in a pretty rural part of NJ (as rural as a state with a population density that high can get, anyway) and every school in the area had a soccer team, because all it really requires is a field, a ball, and people with feet. Most other sports require more crap than that.

[Paelos]

I played soccer since I was 5. I ended up as a captain of my high school team, and we won our intermural championship at UGA. Soccer is fun to play.

It's fuckawful to watch at the high levels to me. I was a keeper so I hate poncy forwards anyway, but the clutch and dive jobs, the inconsistent offsides calls, the ties, the boring ass 70+ minutes of every game, and the elitist attitude of the hipster soccer assholes make the sport unattractive to Americans.

And I can't blame them. I would rather watch NFL, College Football, Baseball, Hockey, and Golf long before I'd turn on a non-USA soccer game. We care about the colors, that's all.

[Shannow]

There is nothing more annoying about the World Cup that the endless debate every 4 years about the status of soccer in the US.

[croaker69]

I played soccer since I was 5. I ended up as a captain of my high school team, and we won our intermural championship at UGA. Soccer is fun to play.

It's fuckawful to watch at the high levels to me. I was a keeper so I hate poncy forwards anyway, but the clutch and dive jobs, the inconsistent offsides calls, the ties, the boring ass 70+ minutes of every game, and the elitist attitude of the hipster soccer assholes make the sport unattractive to Americans.

And I can't blame them. I would rather watch NFL, College Football, Baseball, Hockey, and Golf long before I'd turn on a non-USA soccer game. We care about the colors, that's all.

The quibble that gets me is all the complaining about the refs, offsides calls, and penalties (including diving). I guess we won't talk about travelling and fouls for superstars in the NBA or holding calls and their "consistency" in the NFL.

[Paelos]

I don't like the reffing in the NBA either, and I find it distasteful as a product for many of the same reasons as soccer. Bad officiating, drama llama stars, flopping, and corruption. The NBA also has soccer's boring problem in reverse, there's TOO much scoring and it's agonizing to watch the first 3 quarters of a game. Note that was NOT on my list of things I would watch.

The NFL has issues with the refs, but they are leagues better than soccer because (guess what) when you get it wrong they can actually replay the call and prove what happened. Plus they review things after the game and make appropriate suspensions for nonsense.

[HaemishM]

Yes, let's have this endless fucking debate about why asshole Americans don't like soccer again.

Soccer doesn't have to be the biggest sport in America. If you don't like soccer, don't watch it, don't talk about it. Not every-goddamn-thing Americans think is great is actually liked by the rest of the world, and Americans acting like handegg is somehow a superior or more manly sport just confirms the impression the rest of the world has of us - that we are self-righteous, obnoxious, loud, violent douchebags.

The US team, however, really needs to learn how to fucking pass. Bradley has been TERRIBLE this tournament, and I'm a fan of his. His first touch is usually directly off of his dick and onto the waiting feet of the opposing team. The US actually played better when Bradley dropped back deeper and Jermaine Jones came forward. Boy, it sure would be great if the US had a proven, veteran attacking midfielder with international experience, a history of scoring goals in international competition, the ability to take a pass, run with the ball and then make a creative move to either provide a chance for someone else or make one himself.

I wonder where we could find a player like that. *COUGH*LandonDonovan*COUGH*

Seriously, that's been the US's biggest problem this Cup - no ability to keep the ball and make something happen through the center of the field. The wings have done well, the wingbacks have done all right defensively when they aren't having the same guys running down their throats over and over again.

Getting out of the group is a huge achievement. Only losing 1-0 to Germany (who I think could win the whole thing), almost beating Portugal and beating Ghana to get out of the group is a huge step for a team that's clearly not got all the pieces.

[Shannow]

Is Altidore back in for Belgium? Then you can push both Dempsey and Bradley back into better roles for them. Also doesn't Zusi usually play a more central role for Kansas City? I wouldn't mind seeing him in the middle...anyone at this stage other than stone feet Bradley.

Jones has been a beast. Funny how all the talk before the world cup was worrying about how he would play...

[WayAbvPar]

That is because every time I have seen him play in the past, he has done something stupid and gotten booked or sent off for it. He has a temper, but it seems like JK has gotten through to him, at least for now.

[Jeff Kelly]

Firstly there is a huge difference between claiming to not like soccer and claiming that it is an un-american sport because teams can advance because of ties. 'There are no ties in american sports' was the second sentence he said. Secondly it is misrepresenting soccer and the way of advancement in a group stage of a tournament. Thirdly it is completely ignoring the fact that all team sports have their 'traditional' rules and ideosyncracies that might seem weird or boring to the uninitiated.

It's basically the whole 'hand egg vs. football' debate all over again. That debate is lame because it is always about misrepresentation of and the putting down of one sport or another. Yes soccer has lots of diving, a lot of barely competent refs and many teams get away with abusing rules and playing dirty. Which makes it no different from the NBA etc, etc.

Until 1994 there was no Major League Soccer in the US. Between 1950 and 1990 the US team never qualified for a World Cup and just 20 years after hosting the WC in 1994 the US has a professional first and second league > 10 million soccer players and a team that can qualify for the final 16 of a WC tournament and is competent enough to have a chance to beat teams like Germany or Portugal. That is a big fucking deal and should be honored and celebrated - especially by your people and even more especially by professional sports experts and reporters, like Olbermann.

I simply don't get the hate. It's not like American Football, Baseball or Basketball will become illegal next year.

[Jeff Kelly]

And as far as soccer rules and regulations are concerned. As with most other sports most of the additional regulations are there as a reaction to systematic abuses of the rules or to clarify certain things.

Take additional time for example: Additional time and the 'back passing' rule, were added because teams kept extensively playing for time and the FAs didn't want to reward destructive tactics. The time has to be added at the end because in soccer the clock is not stopped. The clock is not stopped because that would go against one of the core tenets of the sport. So there are no timeouts, no breaks for the referees to review plays, no challenges and so the refs have only a few moments to make up their mind which leads to more mistakes etc.

I rather like the metaphor of American Football being a turn based game and soccer being a real time based game. You can't make the one more like the other without completely changing it and probably not for the better.

In American Football you can stop the clock, review the game so far, react to the opposing team and communicate all those things to your offensive or defensive line. In soccer you can't. That doesn't make one sport objectively better or worse than the other. You might like one or the other more and that's OK

[WayAbvPar]

The single rule change I want to see is replay review of simulation. Award retroactive red cards for that shit (which come with automatic suspensions) and it would clean the game up in 6 months. No, you can't do this at the weekly Sunday game down the park, but they don't have goal line technology there either- that ship has sailed.

[Paelos]

I simply don't get the hate. It's not like American Football, Baseball or Basketball will become illegal next year.

Because soccer people in America fucking whine about it. They try to pretend they are smarter as sports fans because they watch it. The rest of the American backlash to soccer is over that mentality. And the fact the Euro nations prize it so highly, yet we throw out 5th tier of athletes at it.

America will never care. Ever. We have our own sports we enjoy, and the one thing we don't like to hear is the same bullshit out of the media every four years saying WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR SOCCER IN THE USA? IS IT TIME NOW? IT CAN HAPPEN!

No it can't. The average American sports fan already follows at least one major league, and there are already 4 realistic options. That's not even counting niche stuff like Golf, Tennis, and NASCAR. Throwing Soccer into the mix is basically competing with Tennis.

[Hoax]

America will never care.

The deep true SEC country American south may never care. But beyond that I think you should just shut the fuck up and avoid speaking for the entire country.

Because soccer people in America fucking whine about it. They try to pretend they are smarter as sports fans because they watch it. The rest of the American backlash to soccer is over that mentality.

Literally worst strawman on f13 ever. "Soccer people" are way too busy enjoying the world cup right now.

Meanwhile cretins like you are coming out of the woodwork like they do every four years complaining about diving or added time or latin teams attitudes and the media is trolling you all with their bullshit debate over WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR SOCCER IN AMERICA!?

[Paelos]

America will never care.

The deep true SEC country American south may never care. But beyond that I think you should just shut the fuck up and avoid speaking for the entire country.

Awww, did I strike a nerve soccer guy? Thanks for proving my point. Save the whining and start posting TV ratings of anything but the World Cup here in the states if you want to make a legit point about the game in this country.

I don't give a shit if you like soccer or not. Good on you if you do, but the vast majority of the country votes on pro sports in TV ratings and with their wallets. Like I said, I've played the game for years. I'm not "uninitiated" or whatever terms you like to toss out. I understand the game. Jeff Kelly asked the question and I answered him.

[Hoax]

You can go back through this thread and try to prove your point that the people posting how much they hate: offsides/no commercial breaks/added time/no replay reviews/diving/player attitudes/whatever were only doing so because they were forced to respond to claims that soccer fans are smarter and whines about how the rest of America needs to get on board. I'll wait.

This thread is like every comment thread everywhere else. Some people are talking about the game and some people who don't like the game want to make it about them and how they have legit reasons to dislike the game.

[Shannow]

Gotta agree on the straw man. Seems to be a lot of whining from soccer haters about people FORCING soccer on them, 'stop stop I'm being oppressed' when it ain't really happening at all. People are just enjoying the World Cup. Maybe it's a fear of brown people, cause, ya know they like to play soccer..

Last week I was in Kansas City where their brand new beautiful soccer stadium is built right next to a Cabella's and the speedway. They drew 6000? ppl to a 4th round US Open cup match ...

Stop complaining so much. People like sports. People like different sports. People's tastes change. Soccer may become a top 4 sport in this country, it may not. You can't stop it either way.

Enjoy rooting for a national team , there's nothing like it.

[Ingmar]

It probably will be a top 4 sport, eventually, just by virtue of immigration from soccer-loving countries.

Also, people are getting waaaaaaaay too personally insulted by people criticising certain aspects of the game. I'm pretty sure everyone here is still following and watching and enjoying the World Cup. Every game can have improvements made to it, and the fact that I don't like how the clock works and all the stupid diving is not a crime against nature. Relax.

[Paelos]

It probably will be a top 4 sport, eventually, just by virtue of immigration from soccer-loving countries.

Also, people are getting waaaaaaaay too personally insulted by people criticising certain aspects of the game. I'm pretty sure everyone here is still following and watching and enjoying the World Cup. Every game can have improvements made to it, and the fact that I don't like how the clock works or all the stupid diving is not a crime against nature. Relax.

That's a good point. Americans are by far watching and enjoying the World Cup. They usually do when the team does well. We all enjoy a national bandwagon.

http://www.deadline.com/2014/06/usa-germany-world-cupespn-ratings/

The ratings play out that way too. The USA has bought in to this tournament. That doesn't mean soccer can't be improved in many ways to attract a larger audience.

[HaemishM]

That doesn't mean soccer can't be improved in many ways to attract a larger audience.

Think just a minute about what you are saying. Let it sink in for a second. You are obviously missing a word in there, a qualifier of some kind. I'll wait.

[Ingmar]

That doesn't mean soccer can't be improved in many ways to attract a larger audience.

Think just a minute about what you are saying. Let it sink in for a second. You are obviously missing a word in there, a qualifier of some kind. I'll wait.

Which of the changes people have suggested do you think would drive away existing audience members? Would aggressively penalizing dives drive away millions of existing fans? Or a displayed clock?

Stuff like adding stoppages or whatever, sure, but I don't think anyone is actually suggesting that; 45 minute halves with no breaks is something I don't like, but changing it would be too big a structural change.

I see what you're getting at ("LOL you didn't add American before audience") since it's the most popular sport everywhere else, but these are changes that, say, MLS could make that would improve the game's profile here without hurting anything anywhere else.

[WayAbvPar]

I honestly enjoy the ambiguity of the clock. Maybe I am just used to it, but I like they way the ref will almost always let one last attack play out before blowing.

[Shannow]

I honestly enjoy the ambiguity of the clock. Maybe I am just used to it, but I like they way the ref will almost always let one last attack play out before blowing.

Gotta agree it's kinda fun.

I'd also like to boggle at the fact that I'm looking forward to Jozy Altidore returning to the US lineup. Twilight zone.

[Paelos]

That doesn't mean soccer can't be improved in many ways to attract a larger audience.

Think just a minute about what you are saying. Let it sink in for a second. You are obviously missing a word in there, a qualifier of some kind. I'll wait.

Larger means larger. It doesn't matter how much you already have.

[WayAbvPar]

I honestly enjoy the ambiguity of the clock. Maybe I am just used to it, but I like they way the ref will almost always let one last attack play out before blowing.

Gotta agree it's kinda fun.

I'd also like to boggle at the fact that I'm looking forward to Jozy Altidore returning to the US lineup. Twilight zone.

It really seems like they need him to hold the ball, doesn't it? Christ knows Bradley isn't getting it done. And Dempsey plays much better in a CAM or 2nd CF position than as a striker IMO. He is really good at secondary runs and finding passing lanes in tight spaces.

[HaemishM]

That doesn't mean soccer can't be improved in many ways to attract a larger audience.

Think just a minute about what you are saying. Let it sink in for a second. You are obviously missing a word in there, a qualifier of some kind. I'll wait.

Larger means larger. It doesn't matter how much you already have.

If FIFA really gave two shits about dramatically increasing the American audience or felt like it needed to, you wouldn't have seen the World Cup go to Qatar.

As for needing to change the game, sure FIFA needs to make some changes, but not to appeal to an American audience. The NASL tried that and it was a colossal fucking failure. For all its faults, the MLS has actually been very successful. You know that aerosol can of chalk the refs are using to mark the proper distance for free kicks? The MLS was the first place I saw using that. This game is OLD and its governing body is corrupt as fuck, not to mention being made of old traditional players. Worldwide rules changes are GLACIAL, worse than MLB with more history involved.

Penalty shootouts to remove ties? Won't happen and soccer fans don't like them. Having ties is not what turns Americans off to soccer - since there are still ties in the NFL - they are just more infrequent. The offsides rules don't really need changing so much as they need consistent enforcement - most especially they need the refs to enforce the rule as its written, which says give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker (when in practice it's the defender that gets that benefit). Diving? Come back to me when the NBA fixes flopping or the NFL fixes its fucked up pass interference and roughing the passer rules.

[Paelos]

If FIFA really gave two shits about dramatically increasing the American audience or felt like it needed to, you wouldn't have seen the World Cup go to Qatar.

 

[Amarr HM]

It really seems like they need him to hold the ball, doesn't it? Christ knows Bradley isn't getting it done. And Dempsey plays much better in a CAM or 2nd CF position than as a striker IMO. He is really good at secondary runs and finding passing lanes in tight spaces.

Tickles my funny bone to hear American sporting terms used in a football (soccer) sense.

How a non-american might say it.

"They really need someone to hold the ball up, cause Bradley isn't very good at it. Dempsey plays much better in the hole, where he excels at making late runs into box or working the ball out of tight spaces."

I was quite impressed by the US so far, most by the fact they play physically and don't go in for playacting bullshit. Being Irish our national team shows a similar naivety in the art of simulation, which has cost us results over the years but it's just the way we play over here. Similarly it stems from our national sports were you would basically get a kick up the arse (ass) for any sort of carry on.

What also impressed me is the midfielders composure on the ball, which has turned over possession at times, especially later in the game. But it has actually been important aspect to the build up play and allowed breathing space for your defenders. Beasley, that guys an animal how has he not had a higher profile? I like him, maybe I'm missing something but he's impressive so far. Bradley was decent last game except a bit wasteful in final third, played some nice long balls and broke up the German play well.

[WayAbvPar]

Beasley's main gift is speed, even at his relatively advanced age. A stiff breeze can knock him over though. He has been wildly inconsistent through the course of his career. He broke in about the same time as Landon Donovan, and together they were supposed to save US Soccer. Then he disappeared for most of a decade, only surfacing to inexplicably be named to every World Cup squad.

He has been ok when his midfielder in front of him helps out, but he can't handle world class wingers on his own.

[Miasma]

I find it hard to watch most sports because of all the commercial breaks so I sort of wish I could get into soccer but I just can't.  I also don't understand how the best players in the world manage to miss such a large target so often.  I mean I realize they have to aim for the edges or the goalie will stop it but still.

If a sixty minute NFL game didn't actually take three hours because of all the ads I'd watch it all the time, but fuck watching two hours of bullshit out of three.

[Sjofn]

Stuff like adding stoppages or whatever, sure, but I don't think anyone is actually suggesting that; 45 minute halves with no breaks is something I don't like, but changing it would be too big a structural change.

I find it really weird that is an issue for you. I've watched many fine football games with you where you don't move for at least 45 minutes, even with commercial breaks happening. I've also watched movies with you where you were capable of going 90 minutes without needing to pee!