Magic: The Combattening - Hearthstone

[jakonovski]

Regarding mana screw, it's a game mechanic in its own right (or rather, land cards are). Hearthstone removed it and thus nobody can leverage mana density to build weenie decks. For example. It's been like 10 years since I've really thought about this stuff so please excuse any wrong terminology and such.

[schild]

 poor mulliganing skills,

To mulligan properly is one of the most important things in competitive CCGs. So much so that almost every Magic writer has talked about it, from the dev team on down.

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/in-development-a-mulligan-is-worth-three-cards/
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr112b
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/5509_The_Art_Of_The_Mulligan.html
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=10702
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11855

That's not even all the articles from one page of a shitty google search.

Edit: For example, once I start streaming, you'll see that I'm in the LSV camp of mulliganing, which is Camp Greed is More Fun. It's a Jewish camp in upstate New York.

[Rendakor]

 poor mulliganing skills,

 

Are you unfamiliar with the term mulligan, or what constitutes bad mulliganing?

Fake edit: beaten by schild.

[naum]

Dreamhack Summer 2014 Decklist

From a tournament held last weekend.

[MrHat]

 poor mulliganing skills,

To mulligan properly is one of the most important things in competitive CCGs. So much so that almost every Magic writer has talked about it, from the dev team on down.

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/in-development-a-mulligan-is-worth-three-cards/
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr112b
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/5509_The_Art_Of_The_Mulligan.html
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=10702
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11855

That's not even all the articles from one page of a shitty google search.

Edit: For example, once I start streaming, you'll see that I'm in the LSV camp of mulliganing, which is Camp Greed is More Fun. It's a Jewish camp in upstate New York.

I would say that most of my losses in Hearthstone are 80% bad mulligan and 20% bad draw (retrospectively).

How this game doesn't have replays is beyond me.

[schild]

Most of your losses in Hearthstone are due to mulliganing? Really?

Statistically improbable.

[Ironwood]

Not unfamiliar with the term or the importance.  Just seemed an odd way to refer to it.

[Johny Cee]

I would say that most of my losses in Hearthstone are 80% bad mulligan and 20% bad draw (retrospectively).

How this game doesn't have replays is beyond me.

Well, it's far more likely that your losses are actually due to poor deck construction (curve too greedy, not enough early answers for common early plays, etc.) or poor decisions with your mulligans (too greedy) rather than RNG screwing you.  Yes, RNG will screw you occasionally.  But lots of bad early hands/re-picks is an indicator that you need to adjust your curve, tighten up your deck for the prevalent meta (not just copy-paste a deck from a tourney 2 months ago) and take an honest look at your decision making when you choose what cards to repick.

Go look at a long video of a bunch of games by a pro, like a Trump Arena run.  How often is he screwed by his opening hand and first few draws?  Is it significantly less than your observed rates?  If so, then it might be time to sit down and evaluate exactly what your curve generally looks like, or how safe/greedy you are with your repicks.

Not unfamiliar with the term or the importance.  Just seemed an odd way to refer to it.

The phrasing was awkward but I'm generally trying to avoid "player is bad" pejoratives while keeping my gist more general.  Good mulliganing (tossing a hand with acceptable cards because you are aware that your matchup with an opponents deck is weak and requires specific answers, for instance) is also far different from adequate mulliganing (not getting mana screwed/flooded).

[Lakov_Sanite]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj4nJ1YEAp4&feature=kp

[Morat20]

Back to hearthstone: That goddamn Priest inner-fire shit where they pop out a 20/20 minion with two fucking cards + whatever that creature is that's "attack is the same as health" is fucking bullshit.

between that and the fucking clerics, I hate playing priest decks.

[Tannhauser]

FYI, if I'm not mistaken, Priests are one of the least played classes.  The nerf to Mind Control ran everyone off but their Naxx card might bring some back.

[Morat20]

FYI, if I'm not mistaken, Priests are one of the least played classes.  The nerf to Mind Control ran everyone off but their Naxx card might bring some back.

Oh yeah, hard to play or bad, I'm not sure which. Lord knows, I don't like playing them. But they can be annoying as hell to face if they get lucky draws.

On the other hand, if you have a lot of 4 attack creatures, they're kinda screwed...:)

[Tannhauser]

OK have to share this bizarre end.  I'm playing the Hunter and have 7 health left.  My Paladin enemy has 2 health left but has two minions, including a taunter in play.  I have one card, Explosive Trap.  I play it.  The pally then summons two more minions and buffs his Windfury Harpy to 7 attack.  I'm screwed.  So I say "Well played" as a desperate psych out.  He freezes.  He doesn't attack, content with his total board control of two taunters and two other minions.  Pass.

I shoot him with my Hunter hero ability. 

Game.

randycoveredinspooge.jpg

[Ironwood]

So you beat a fucking idiot ?

I don't get it.

[schild]

It's the small victories, Ironwood.

[Ironwood]

I'll drink to that.

[ezrast]

Explosive Trap would give you the win anyway, no? (not that your opponent would have known what trap you had out)

I found this while trying to make sure that was true. At least the cards all feel good.

[Slayerik]

Here's a value Paladin deck (low legendary count anyway) I made and has been stomping peeps pretty well. The concept is pretty simple, do enough damage so that you can finish on turn 8 with a Double attacked Ravenholdt Assassin. If you don't have Leeroy/Blood Knights, I would probably replace with maybe Divine Favor or Hammer of Wrath. Without the Blood Knights, I'd probably pull the Divine shield dudes for Harvest golems/ another thrallmar farseer / Acidic Swamp Ooze / Equality

(1) Blessing of Might  x 2
(1) Argent Squire x 2
(1) Leper Gnome x 2
(2) Argent Protector x 2
(2) Faerie Dragon x 2
(2) Ironbeak Owl x 1
(2) Knife Juggler x 2
(3) Aldor Peacekeeper x 1
(3) Blood Knight x 2
(3) Scarlet Crusader x 2
(3) Thrallmar Farseer x 1
(4) Truesilver Champion x 2
(4) Blessing of Kings x 2
(4) Consecration x 2
(4) Leeroy
(5) Blessed Champion x 2
(7) Ravenholdt Assassin x 2

Been pretty fun. Got my Ravenholdt up to 28/5 once. Dude didn't see that loss coming....The standard COMBO produces a stealthed 14/5 turn 8 swinging. That combo with a blessing of might casted first makes a 20/5.

[trias_e]

No card draw!?  Playing a combo deck like that without card draw has to be just maddeningly inconsistent.  I'd definitely swap the farseer out for a divine favor at least.  Two loot hoarders might not be a bad idea either, but I'm not sure what you'd drop for them.

I've tried to play a similar deck (although mine used stranglethorn tiger instead of ravenholt), but I gave up on it due to the inconsistency.

Having Faerie Dragon and all of those buffs makes me sad.  How about Amani Berserker instead (it goes great with BoK, and you can shield with argent protector after it enrages).  Also, I think Abusive Sergeant would be better than Leper Gnome.  It can help your combo but also can help keep you in the game early as well.  Finally, consider an arcane golem?  It goes nicely with all of these buffs, and gives the deck a little more consistency with drawing a charge.

[trias_e]

Speaking of semi-budget paladin decks, here's a tempo pally I played to rank 2 last season:

Tempo Pally

• 2 x Blessing of Kings
  
• 2 x Blood Knight
  
• 2 x Blessing of Wisdom
  
• 1 x Worgen Infiltrator
  
• 2 x Avenging Wrath
  
• 2 x Argent Protector
  
• 2 x Consecration
  
• 2 x Truesilver Champion
  
• 2 x Elven Archer
  
• 1 x King Mukla
  
• 2 x Equality
  
• 2 x Knife Juggler
  
• 1 x Argent Commander
  
• 2 x Argent Squire
  
• 1 x Hand of Protection
  
• 2 x Abusive Sergeant
  
• 2 x Divine Favor
  

I actually replaced the argent commander with a Cairne, but that makes it a bit less budget.  The deck plays differently depending on draw and matchup (duh), but in general it tries to maintain board controll, draw a lot of cards, and finish people off with avenging wrath.  It's terrible against rogue, but amazing against other paladin decks and handlocks.  Average against most everything else.  I think it's a lot of fun to play, and surprisingly consistent despite relying on what people might consider 'gimmicks'.  Two blood knights keep the deck competitive against zoo (just pray you dont draw divine favor, although mukla+divine favor still can draw you a few).  Can often squeak out wins against agro since we are capable of getting damage out on the board quickly.  And equality/cons/avenging (and especially cairne if you have it) let the deck stay alive and kicking past turn 10 against control.

[Ragnoros]

Naxx pricing is up. Five wings, 700g or $7 each. Alternately, $5 each if you buy a bundle of whatever you haven't unlocked all at once. Get the first one for free if you login within a month of launch.


Should be good for a laff, and I'm sitting on 2200g so I can buy em if the fun is there.

[Tannhauser]

So basically $20 for the last four wings.  Awesome, that's cheaper than I was expecting.  Really looking forward to playing this!

[Paelos]

Time to start daily humping again in anticipation. I think I'm up to 1800g.

[Slayerik]

No card draw!?  Playing a combo deck like that without card draw has to be just maddeningly inconsistent.  I'd definitely swap the farseer out for a divine favor at least.  Two loot hoarders might not be a bad idea either, but I'm not sure what you'd drop for them.

I've tried to play a similar deck (although mine used stranglethorn tiger instead of ravenholt), but I gave up on it due to the inconsistency.

Having Faerie Dragon and all of those buffs makes me sad.  How about Amani Berserker instead (it goes great with BoK, and you can shield with argent protector after it enrages).  Also, I think Abusive Sergeant would be better than Leper Gnome.  It can help your combo but also can help keep you in the game early as well.  Finally, consider an arcane golem?  It goes nicely with all of these buffs, and gives the deck a little more consistency with drawing a charge.

Funny you said that, this was something I kinda just threw together and with playing it basically your concerns are the weak spots. Faerie Dragon is just nice sometimes at the two spot. Really pisses off rogues and mages. I thought leper gnome is good for it's purpose, I just wanted something to help get them down some health. The turn 8 swing for 14 isn't worth a whole lot if they are still at 25. The deck isn't great, for sure, but it's pretty fun.

Divine Favor is probably the answer. You can dump your hand pretty quick with this deck. Spot on analysis, though.

[Tannhauser]

And the release date for Curse of Naxxramas is....two days from now!  Bit of a surprise, but hell yeah!

[Ironwood]

Second boss is some serious bullshit.

[schild]

Second boss is some serious bullshit.

Use the skillz, luke.

[Ironwood]

I wish, but I haven't played this since Jesus left Galston, so I probably lack the cards for Skillz.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Zoolock decks ruin the second and third boss.

[Tannhauser]

Second boss is some serious bullshit.

Use the skillz, luke.

Oh look it's THAT guy. 

Took my current Mage deck and beat the first boss with a timely Flame Strike.  Lost to the second boss then beat her.  Last boss was easy.  Went and did the Druid and Rogue class challenges.

Fun stuff. 

[Lakov_Sanite]

I understand why they are gating this content because it is over incredibly quickly but it seems a bit weird in a card game to gate what is essentially set2.

[lac]

It's set 1.1 in their mind. They make a distinction between adventures, like naxx, and expansions, which are supposed to be the new sets.

[Thrawn]

Use the skillz, luke.

Oh look it's THAT guy. 

He had someone on the Hex forums trying to say that Hearthstone is as complicated and skill intensive as Magic if not more   So I'm guessing he's still ready to go. 

[Ironwood]

I sometimes interact with mental people too.

 

[MrHat]

Heroic is a fun puzzle to figure out.
All in all the first week of the expansion was a nice 2hr distraction.