Random house hunting questions

[Selby]

I was thinking local and the majority of the country, not the fringe cases on the coasts.  Sorry if you choose to live in one of those locales, but you knew what you were getting in to.

If there were jobs anywhere else, I'd be there.  Sadly...  Choosing between hunting for no jobs in a cheap place vs. having a job in an expensive place isn't much of a choice.

[Signe]

Just moved into my first house.  Just dropping in to say good luck!!

Yay!  Is it adobe?  I loved living in adobe houses.  My fav one was in the mountains near Santa Fe.  My parents almost bought it.  If they had, I'd probably still be living there! 

[Mrbloodworth]

The mystery of the drain is solved. Its a secondary water cut off for the main.

Everything seems to be going my way right now. Our current rental place is letting us break the year lease we just signed, sans deposit and one month rent. They signed the release form so I could use it, and if things go well I submit it to them. This way, if it goes south with the house, we still keep the year lease.

I'm asking for 3k closing costs, and coming in 6k under list price.  For various reasons I am sure will come out during negation. My mortgage at this level should be about what I pay in rent now. So, acceptance/rebid and inspection come next, but I'm nearly positive I know what will come up already, as both my brothers are contractors ( I'm the nerd in the fam ). IR at 4.75.

I think I'm doing well and crossing my I's.

[Mrbloodworth]

Wow. So when you get multiple lenders in an offer war, magic seems to happen.  They keep leapfrogging the rate and payment lower. 

[Ingmar]

I'll never understand the permanent renters I know.

I'm deathly allergic to debt.

I'm also the mythical rented the same place for a decade guy!

[Jimbo]

Wow. So when you get multiple lenders in an offer war, magic seems to happen.  They keep leapfrogging the rate and payment lower. 

You are lucky then, something is happening with the appraisal system lately where they are coming back lower.  I know my house I bought started at 83,000 when I bought it, 3 years ago it was appraised at 89,000, then this month it dropped to 74,000. Hopefully it is due to all the foreclosures that hit in this town, because all the other houses listed around me are way higher. I don't feel like fighting with the appraisal company, I know I can but is it really worth it, and the chances of getting it changed is not that great. I'm going to miss out on a lower rate (3.25% for a fixed 15 year but they want 25% down if a new load or 75% of the appraisal cost or lower to finance...i'm so close but not close enough) so maybe in a year or two the market in my neighborhood will bounce back and I can get a decent refinance.

Home owners associations are assholes. They may start out great and you may have great neighbors, but then people will become dicks for some reason and be prepared to have to do what they want or face their wraith. My next place I buy will not be in any type of owners association.

Oh, don't ever take the loan for 1st time home buyers where they don't require you to put down a down payment. The rates are higher and you will have to pay PMI.

[Merusk]

HOAs are always run by the people with the most time. This means housewives and retirees for the most part.  They have their purpose but I will never move in to a "Strong" HOA neighborhood with more than a few rules/ restrictions.

Of course, the more development that goes on the less likely that is to happen.  Executives among Developers & Production builders LOVE them some HOAs so the "Feel" of "Their Neighborhood" isn't ruined.

[Paelos]

They have their place. In the best cases, the HOA is there to provide some common upkeep and also make sure you don't have one rogue owner completely ignoring everyone else's property value and quality of life.

The the worst cases, they are fucking gestapos.

[01101010]

The mystery of the drain is solved. Its a secondary water cut off for the main.

Everything seems to be going my way right now. Our current rental place is letting us break the year lease we just signed, sans deposit and one month rent. They signed the release form so I could use it, and if things go well I submit it to them. This way, if it goes south with the house, we still keep the year lease.

I'm asking for 3k closing costs, and coming in 6k under list price.  For various reasons I am sure will come out during negation. My mortgage at this level should be about what I pay in rent now. So, acceptance/rebid and inspection come next, but I'm nearly positive I know what will come up already, as both my brothers are contractors ( I'm the nerd in the fam ). IR at 4.75.

I think I'm doing well and crossing my I's.

Standing water in a valve box is not a good sign. It is not the end of the world and all, but it means either it is not draining properly and/or that valve is leaking near your foundation. Might be worth an estimate to see how much and knock that off the price.

[Furiously]

Yea, I'd definately go watch the meter for a minute or two.

[Sjofn]

I'll never understand the permanent renters I know.

I'm deathly allergic to debt.

I'm also the mythical rented the same place for a decade guy!

Plus houses are a pain in the ass. All the home owners I know are constantly talking about all the repair bullshit they have to do, and it seems to NEVER EVER END. Fuck that!

Of course, we have never gotten in a fight with our current landlords, and when we need something fixed, it's done within a day or two, with absolutely no fussing about if it "needs" to be done or not. There are downsides (I would really, really like an in-unit washing machine/dryer, for example), but nothing to make me want to take on ENDLESS HOME REPAIR AND/OR RENOVATIONS.

[Numtini]

Of course, the more development that goes on the less likely that is to happen.  Executives among Developers & Production builders LOVE them some HOAs so the "Feel" of "Their Neighborhood" isn't ruined.

Some areas require them because it takes some of the stress off of local services. It was really hard to find anything in the DC suburbs that didn't have an HOA because of this.

In general, I think they support toxic behavior. We have an acquaintance who's the dictator in a small condo association and lost his mind. He's done five years of litigation and at least $20k in legal expenses over a door not having a window. It was always about his dick size more than anything, but since he got into it and the expenses started to mount up, it became important to the HOA to continue it because the expenses are coming from fines levied against the no-window offender.

[Paelos]

That's the downside of an HoA. The upside is they can help with the one unique snowflake who thinks painting his house neon green with christmas lights is the bees knees for property value, while decorating his lawn with busted cars.

[Merusk]

Of course, the more development that goes on the less likely that is to happen.  Executives among Developers & Production builders LOVE them some HOAs so the "Feel" of "Their Neighborhood" isn't ruined.

Some areas require them because it takes some of the stress off of local services. It was really hard to find anything in the DC suburbs that didn't have an HOA because of this.

In general, I think they support toxic behavior. We have an acquaintance who's the dictator in a small condo association and lost his mind. He's done five years of litigation and at least $20k in legal expenses over a door not having a window. It was always about his dick size more than anything, but since he got into it and the expenses started to mount up, it became important to the HOA to continue it because the expenses are coming from fines levied against the no-window offender.

Oh yeah, I'm not against them for many things. What I'm talking about is when its taken to the level of "Everyone must use this exact mail box.  All houses must be this shade of white.  All future work must be in this exact (wrongly-labeled) architectural style using this (wrong/ unresearched) list of traits." 

It gets in to the craziness you just described, particularly when it involves the stupidity of calling for the exact colors.  Paint companies retire colors all the time as do housing accessory companies. 

I had a similar problem with a zoning department last year.  They required the building be "earth tones" with no definition of the colors beyond that.  The headache is that in a design palette there are reds, blues, oranges and whites which can legitimately be earth tones. 

What they really wanted to say is something along the lines of; "All buildings must be tint of brown between 20% black and 80% white"  but didn't bother to hire a design consultant (or hell, even do a Google) when writing the regulations to tell them "earth tones" is a bigger swath of colors than they thought. 

[Mrbloodworth]

I now have a lawyer involved. This process has shown me how much I simply do not understand. At this point my decision is who to go with to finance the loan. Most are maybe in a 20$  ( and like 0.3something in rate ) range of each other. So I suppose its down to who I want to work with, and weather they sell the mortgage or not.

[Numtini]

Oh yeah, I'm not against them for many things. What I'm talking about is when its taken to the level of "Everyone must use this exact mail box.  All houses must be this shade of white.  All future work must be in this exact (wrongly-labeled) architectural style using this (wrong/ unresearched) list of traits." 

We rented a condo in Montgomery Village where they went so far as to have a list of acceptable color & brand. I once saw in the hearing notes that a mail slot had turned down by the architectural committee.

That was a pretty hellacious one though. It had two levels of HOA, one set the rules for the entire development, the other provided services to individual areas. So the rich people in the minimansions got to be part of setting rules for everyone, but didn't have to tolerate sharing their pool and tennis courts with hoi poloi from the condos.

[Yegolev]

Tangential, you can mix any color of paint in any brand.

[Jimbo]

I never understand why people get so upset over what there neighbor does or looks like.

Some of the nicest people I know live in some pretty shitty houses and homes and some of the biggest douche bags live in really awesome looking homes.

The biggest bitch I have about my home owners is that they won't let me put up solar panels or a wind mill. I have read I could take them to court on that, but I'm not really wanting a fight, the head of the H.O.A., is a major dick, and he owns an oil company in town, so I really would piss him off and make me a target, better to keep on there good side and stay under the radar.

[Merusk]

Because your neighbor affects your property values.  I like HOAs because it gives a tool to keep cars off lawns, lawns from turning in to 'wild kingdom' territory and forces upkeep of things lazy people will let go otherwise, like painting and minor repairs. 

You've seen the pictures of the 'horrible workspaces' in the IT-tales thread.  Imagine that as a house next-door to you and I don't think you'd be chill about it. Now imagine you have no recourse to resolve it because you're in an unincorporated area or the city zoning allows it.

HOAs give the tools to attempt a resolution or keep those who'd willingly let such disrepair out of the neighborhood.  Beyond that they become a tool for bullying.

[Paelos]

I never understand why people get so upset over what there neighbor does or looks like.

Some are petty tyrants. Some are just old farts who hate change. The large majority just like to make sure one guy doesn't piss in the pool.

A bad house in a neighborhood can murder resale, and it can drag down standards as a whole. People start to think this guy does it, and it sort of rolls downhill. Sometimes you end up with the reverse: a neighbor who is just a dick and wants to put up a neon beer sign in his windows at all hours, just to piss everyone off.

The problem with many HoAs is that reasonable solutions are often the first casualty. HoA makes a modest suggestion, some "don't tread on me dude" pitches a fit, they battle and battle until it's painfully resolved. The next time around the HoA comes down harder to make a point, and the escalation of insanity begins.

[Sky]

I agree completely and I'll mention that you don't want to deal with water or moisture issues at all.  Buy a dry house.

I bought my house knowingly breaking one of my rules: it isn't on a hill. I've always lived on hills.

Six grand later, I do have a nice dry basement. Totally worth the money, but I'd rather not have been the one to pay for it.

As far as renting vs owning, I hope to never be stuck renting again. I'm paying off my own appreciating asset rather than someone else's, and I'm not at the whim of a landlord. My mother has a sweet deal on her house in the country, great landlord and she's paying circa 1994 rent. But he's in poor health and when he decides to stop landlording, short of signing it over to her she is completely screwed. She's paying $525/mo for a large 4br/1ba in the country in the woods, creekside and that might get you a crappy 2br/1ba apartment in the city. That house would pull a good $1200/mo in the current market.

I know when I retire, I'll be paying the taxes and repairs and let everyone else play around with escalating rent/housing market. After mine is paid off, it's just more equity for me to borrow against. And even if we trade up, I'm considering renting it out. First choice would be to my mom just to cover the mortgage or take a slight loss in exchange for the equity (and backup property). Otherwise I could rent it out for 50% more than my mortgage (well, pimi).

Renting does make sense for people who can't or don't want to maintain a property (or pay someone to, though that's what you're doing with a landlord), or if you move around more than every five years, or if you live in a ridiculously expensive market.

[Jimbo]

I guess I'm more laid back, I don't care if you have 6 cars on blocks or if you have a neon beer sign or a 12 foot penis in the front yard. But then again, I was raised out on a farm in the sticks, we had a nice farm that was manicured, but our neighbors did have the cars on blocks, they took 3 different colored trailers and put them together, and I'm sure when they cut there yard they found cars, trailers, and stuff. Mom and Dad still live there, and the property value keeps going up, despite the neighbors moonshine, pot farm, and meth lab across the bean and horse field from them.

The other problem I have after researching home owners is how much power they have, it is crazy on that note, almost as bad as fighting city hall. And there is nothing to really be an over watch to see if they are being too much of a dick.

[Mrbloodworth]

Well, for me this choice is easy. Most of my family is here, with houses of their own, same with friends. Also, I have always had a hard time paying rent, in that, it does nothing for me save possibly being good for credit. There is no HOA, its in the city but on the outskirts of the line, so somewhat rural. When this is all said and done, I'm likely to be paying less in mortgage than I pay in rent now, and what I pay in rent is low for the quality of the apartment I am in. We have been extremely lucky, and I like to think its in part to me and my over cautiousness.

[Nebu]

I never understand why people get so upset over what there neighbor does or looks like.

What your neighbor does can cost you tens of thousands of dollars when you go to sell your house or have it appraised for a home improvement loan.  I have the least expensive house in an affluent neighborhood.  My neighbors care a great deal about my house as it anchors the low end of the housing market there.

[Rasix]

Some of us actually like living in neighborhoods that don't look like shit.   Unfortunately, we don't have a very strong HOA, so ours is trending back to the bare allowable amount of shit.  All of which is going to make selling our house a bit of a chore.  I'd pay an extra 10 a month if they'd just make people close their fucking garages when they're not doing something that requires them to be open. 

But then again, that's why we've been looking to move for a while now.  That and I'm a bit too far away from my son's school, my work, and the parts of the city I actually do stuff in. 

[Mrbloodworth]

I never understand why people get so upset over what there neighbor does or looks like.

What your neighbor does can cost you tens of thousands of dollars when you go to sell your house or have it appraised for a home improvement loan.  I have the least expensive house in an affluent neighborhood.  My neighbors care a great deal about my house as it anchors the low end of the housing market there.

You know, people say this. But how can this affect you, Beyond the Buyer just not wanting to live near that kind of person? How can it depreciate the vale of YOUR property. And by who, the city assessment, or the Banks? Where is this value going?

[Rasix]

You answered your own question.

[Mrbloodworth]

I mean, I understand that part. As I have been that person that did not want to live next to the hillbillies. But that doesn't directly lower the assessed value of your house. As I understand it. yes?

Its the second part of his statement I don't understand:

or have it appraised for a home improvement loan.

[Salamok]

I mean, I understand that part. As I have been that person that did not want to live next to the hillbillies. But that doesn't directly lower the assessed value of your house. As I understand it. yes?

Its the second part of his statement I don't understand:

or have it appraised for a home improvement loan.

Unless you challenge your tax appraisal (which is usually entirely data driven) I seriously doubt it will effect the estimated value of your home for tax purposes.   For home purchases your lender will do a full appraisal and it should effect the value represented there (but may not always do so).  I wouldn't be surprised if you went down to challenge your tax appraisal with a copy of the 3 foreclosures on your street, a report on the registered sex offender living next door and a picture of 4 abandoned cars in the other neighbors front yard they would accept that as evidence that your property is subjected to below average conditions for the area (unless of course the above scenario is already representative of your entire area).

[Jimbo]

Well, I went to re-finance the home loan. The bank and the appraisal company said my house is now worth $74,000. Really the bank is only going with what the appraisal company said. The company that did mine really made it look like a bunch of busy work and then kept saying it was condo instead of town house, and didn't compare my house to any houses in my neighborhood. Instead they took 4 from my subdivision that were either up for sale or sold recently, but they wouldn't use the two in my neighbor hood for some reason (and they just sold in the past 3 years of course they are like way more expensive --$130,000 and 140,000). Then they took 4 house from a subdivision about 15 miles south of me (those houses are a lot older than mine too). The bank says that is what this company is supposed to do, plus the bank says they can't get too involved with the appraisal company now, especially since the housing crash.

Wow, you all don't want to live next to me and my hillbilly friends?

[Salamok]

There are definitely limits on how recent a sale has to be to be used as a comp and 3 years is way beyond that limit.

[Jimbo]

So then how do they figure in your neighborhood and the home owners crap?

[Ingmar]

HOAs are always run by the people with the most time. This means housewives and retirees for the most part.  They have their purpose but I will never move in to a "Strong" HOA neighborhood with more than a few rules/ restrictions.

Of course, the more development that goes on the less likely that is to happen.  Executives among Developers & Production builders LOVE them some HOAs so the "Feel" of "Their Neighborhood" isn't ruined.

Around here the fees are typically high enough to completely fuck with the affordability of housing, also, at least at my income level. "Hey I found a place I can afford... oh wait it has a $300 HOA fee every month."

[Mrbloodworth]

I mean, I understand that part. As I have been that person that did not want to live next to the hillbillies. But that doesn't directly lower the assessed value of your house. As I understand it. yes?

Its the second part of his statement I don't understand:

or have it appraised for a home improvement loan.

Unless you challenge your tax appraisal (which is usually entirely data driven) I seriously doubt it will effect the estimated value of your home for tax purposes.   For home purchases your lender will do a full appraisal and it should effect the value represented there (but may not always do so).  I wouldn't be surprised if you went down to challenge your tax appraisal with a copy of the 3 foreclosures on your street, a report on the registered sex offender living next door and a picture of 4 abandoned cars in the other neighbors front yard they would accept that as evidence that your property is subjected to below average conditions for the area (unless of course the above scenario is already representative of your entire area).

Right. I understand that. And I understand that for buyers, cars on blocks is a personal valuation. I simply do not understand the idea that that effects the value of your land and home for a home improvement loan. We are talking about unsavory neighbor, not entire areas hit by depression.

[Merusk]

Unsavory neighbor is a pain in the ass to live next to creates problems and means you're not going to be willing to tolerate living next to him.  The only way you can tell if a neighbor is unsavory is the upkeep of their house and yard, they're not interviewing for assholes. (whose metric is always variable.  We all know plenty of assholes with friends) 

Cars on blocks are not a personal evaluation, it's pieces of a property evaluation. Those cars are a sign that upkeep isn't a concern and that a limited number of the populace will be willing to move in next to the problem house. Look at it the same as insurance assessors noting when you're under 25. Not all teenagers and young adults are terrible drivers, but enough are that everyone gets painted with the same brush.  Business isn't concerned with fairness. 

Yes, banks can only go by what the assessors say because that's the assessor's job.  Banks aren't property evaluators, they're loan generators. The bank is harmless for the assessment of your place because it's not their job. Their job is to determine if you can pay them back and the assessment says if the house is suitable collateral for that loan.

So, for the home improvement loan next to the house with 6 cars on blocks the assessor is saying; "No, Mr. Bank, you're not going to find enough people to pay for this house at the price Mr. Homeowner says it will be worth after the improvments.  This piece of collateral will actually only be worth 2/3 of that price."