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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Guild Wars 2  |  Topic: New Patch: Experiments in alternative progression 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: New Patch: Experiments in alternative progression  (Read 11756 times)
Soukyan
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Reply #70 on: July 25, 2013, 02:16:38 PM

Non-recurring, expiring content is a terrible idea if you ask me.  It just screws people who might only want to play occasionally.

Occasional players are not the target audience for the expiring content as they do not spend the money on the cash shop that constant, hardcore players do. The people who log in daily for an hour or more are the target audience, and who are the "whales", if you will. Somebody posted a gambling related pic in this thread, but it is apropos here. The cash shop model is exploiting a lot of the same techniques that casinos use to tap those who are prone to getting a physiological boost of hormones from these achievements. They are the ones who fund the game development for the rest of us.

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Threash
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Reply #71 on: July 25, 2013, 02:52:13 PM

Besides it doesn't actually "screw" you in any way as the events don't come with any power increases.  The only way it can screw you is if you actually wanted to play the content, in which case you would assume that people would actually login and play it.

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Tmon
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Reply #72 on: July 25, 2013, 03:05:23 PM

Which is why I don't get too worked up about the required jumping puzzle bit, it does annoy me on one level but since completing the event only gives out some cosmetic stuff and and one or two items that I can most likely get other ways it doesn't matter much.  The two week cycle may actually cause me to log in more often just on the off chance that one of the new events might be something I find fun. 
Ingmar
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Reply #73 on: July 25, 2013, 03:43:53 PM

The only way it can screw you is if you actually wanted to play the content, in which case you would assume that people would actually login and play it.

Except the way their limited-time content works is incompatible with how I at least tend to play games. I will binge on a game for a couple weeks then walk away for a couple months. Their model is much more along the lines of 'play for an hour every day but it has to be EVERY day' instead. If they made their temporary story content permanently available it could accomodate both kinds of players.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Kageru
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Reply #74 on: July 25, 2013, 04:56:40 PM


I'm pretty sure it is based on the idea that once they drop out of peoples minds and routines it's hard to get their attention back. It's probably true even if their method of dealing with the problem seems a bit wasteful.

World-PvP seems to be working fine, people are still into it. They removed the ability to "win" a permanent boost for the winning side because eventually they get over their brain damage design decisions... mostly.



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Nija
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Reply #75 on: July 25, 2013, 06:13:32 PM

Put it to you guys this way.

I like big world PVP.

I've given SOE over $300 so far to play world PVP in Planetside 2 and I still have an active, recurring, 6 month subscription due to the perks of that game.

I bought the BOX for Guildwars 2 and I've not given them a cent since.

They fucked up and completely missed getting any money from me.
Sjofn
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Reply #76 on: July 25, 2013, 06:40:14 PM

And that's fine? Because instead they have money from me. I haven't even given PS2 the courtesy of a download. It's like not all PvP is the same, and not all people open to PvP want the same thing out of it.

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Nija
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Reply #77 on: July 25, 2013, 07:07:46 PM

You have focused on WvW and you've gave GW2 money? That's the first time I've heard of that.

I'm just pointing out they've ignored a quarter of their game/market. If you split it up SPVP, PVE, Raiding, and WvW.
Kageru
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Reply #78 on: July 25, 2013, 07:51:33 PM


I play GW2 for the complete package of which WvW is a part. I don't play PS2 much anymore because the fighting over meaningless forts gets tedious in either and PS2 has nothing else to offer.

The idea of paying 300$ dollars to play PS2 just confuses me, different flavors of gun don't really make the game that much more interesting. Buying advantage perhaps because SOE are bad at game balance?

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Phred
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Reply #79 on: July 25, 2013, 08:07:43 PM

I wasn't a big fan of DaoC but i think realm pvp was the point of the game, not something that thrown in that had no impact at all on the rest of the game just so they could check "world pvp" of a list.

I don't remember RvR having much of an "impact" on anything in DAOC other than a minor boost to stats but oh wait, GW2 has that too.



Nija
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Reply #80 on: July 25, 2013, 08:16:45 PM

The idea of paying 300$ dollars to play PS2 just confuses me, different flavors of gun don't really make the game that much more interesting. Buying advantage perhaps because SOE are bad at game balance?

Different flavors of guns make all the difference. I have basically everything for everything on all 3 sides.
kildorn
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Reply #81 on: July 25, 2013, 08:25:47 PM

The idea of paying 300$ dollars to play PS2 just confuses me, different flavors of gun don't really make the game that much more interesting. Buying advantage perhaps because SOE are bad at game balance?

Different flavors of guns make all the difference. I have basically everything for everything on all 3 sides.

While I'd agree that GW2's not setup to get a ton of revenue from store purchases from pvpers.. I don't think that's the point.

From a customer standpoint, I'm far happier with my GW2 purchase for WvW purposes than my PS2 store purchases. Because the difference is pretty much that in PS2 I pay to avoid grind. In GW2 there's not very much grind to avoid (which is why people were livid over Ascended gear initially: it was trying to add a gear grind)

The GW2 method is actually really similar to DAOC's earlier days in that there's a rather short ramp up from max level to effectively fully geared. It's also one of the reasons people revolted against ToA's Master Levels and leveling of pants. In PS2 while you can get everything without paying and there's a relatively flat power curve for the extra goodies, without paying there's a pretty massive grind to get it all even for just one class.

Different strokes and all that.
Kageru
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Reply #82 on: July 25, 2013, 08:37:56 PM

Different flavors of guns make all the difference. I have basically everything for everything on all 3 sides.

Thanks for funding the game for me. I might play it again one day with the one optimal for my play-style gun I bought (on a triple station cash day).

That said I don't think the hardcore who would do something like that are GW2's target market.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 08:42:12 PM by Kageru »

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Sjofn
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Reply #83 on: July 26, 2013, 02:48:17 PM

You have focused on WvW and you've gave GW2 money? That's the first time I've heard of that.

I'm just pointing out they've ignored a quarter of their game/market. If you split it up SPVP, PVE, Raiding, and WvW.

You misunderstand why I paid them money. There's nothing on the store "for" WvW. That is a good thing. But when they release an armor skin I like the look of, or if I'm debating adding more bank space, or I want more character slots, it's a hell of a lot more likely I will pay them money, because I enjoy their product and am perfectly happy to support them.

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Ingmar
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Reply #84 on: July 26, 2013, 02:51:28 PM

Yeah making WvW someplace you could spend money would be the absolute worst choice they could make in terms of making the people who like WvW happy.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
kildorn
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Reply #85 on: July 26, 2013, 05:20:35 PM

I've dumped a bit of money on cosmetics, bank slots, etc.

That's the kind of microtransactions I like: shit that doesn't really matter. Though to be fair on release the bank was WAY too small considering the special crafting mats didn't have a tab back then.
Sjofn
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Reply #86 on: July 26, 2013, 05:23:30 PM

Amusingly, I refused to buy more bank space as a result, as a sort of feet-stamping sulkiness. Now they expanded the crafting mats storage? WHY YES I WILL BUY ANOTHER RACK OF SLOTS IN WHICH TO STORE RANDOM BULLSHIT.

I'd really like them to add dowels and crap to the crafting tabs though. Alas!

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Nevermore
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Reply #87 on: July 26, 2013, 06:33:46 PM

Crafted food that is used as ingredients for other food needs special storage.  Did they ever add that?

Over and out.
Ingmar
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Reply #88 on: July 26, 2013, 07:06:10 PM

No. The problem with it is that they don't want it to auto-bank with the 'deposit all' button because you might want to keep it in your bag to use as food rather than turn into something else, I suspect.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Nevermore
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Reply #89 on: July 26, 2013, 07:10:22 PM

If I remember correctly, there are bags that override stuff like that from happening, no?  Like bags that make the items in them 'invisible' to vendors or automatically filter craft stuff to them and such.

Over and out.
Nija
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Reply #90 on: July 26, 2013, 09:23:07 PM

What, you guys wouldn't pay money to unlock Rifles as a weapon for your Necromancers? It's not only a WvW thing, even!

That's what you get when you spend money on PS2. Camo, and extra weapons. The extra weapons are only strong for the first week they come out. After everyone has bought 'em they get nerfed.


They need to make changes to WvW - I don't want to pay to win at WvW. I want to make WvW interesting and worth actually playing instead of something that everyone I know abandoned after 6 weeks.
Nevermore
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Reply #91 on: July 26, 2013, 09:47:59 PM

They need to make changes to WvW - I don't want to pay to win at WvW. I want to make WvW interesting and worth actually playing instead of something that everyone I know abandoned after 6 weeks.

For example?

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Ingmar
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Reply #92 on: July 26, 2013, 09:49:12 PM

I wouldn't want that. WvW is meant to be a level playing field; you get your fairly easy stuff capped out and you're set for life. I don't want money spent to equal anything useful for actual gameplay purposes at all when it comes to PVP. I already am pretty lukewarm about them bringing realm rank things to spend points on into it, honestly.

I think the zones are well constructed and I have fun when I go there. At least on JQ there are normally tons of people out there, it sure doesn't seem like something everyone quit after 6 weeks.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Setanta
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Reply #93 on: July 26, 2013, 10:34:00 PM

WvW seems fine to me - jump in and have fun. It always seems populated Aussie/NZ timeslot and that's when our server is quietest. Weekends there's occasionally a queue to get in.

I think people might be playing more than the 6 weeks suggested.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
proudft
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Reply #94 on: July 26, 2013, 11:13:03 PM

JQ Borderlands was full-to-queue at about 7 pm PST tonight.  Madness!
kildorn
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Reply #95 on: July 27, 2013, 12:37:30 PM

What, you guys wouldn't pay money to unlock Rifles as a weapon for your Necromancers? It's not only a WvW thing, even!

That's what you get when you spend money on PS2. Camo, and extra weapons. The extra weapons are only strong for the first week they come out. After everyone has bought 'em they get nerfed.


They need to make changes to WvW - I don't want to pay to win at WvW. I want to make WvW interesting and worth actually playing instead of something that everyone I know abandoned after 6 weeks.

Unlocking new weapon sets via cash WOULD be a WvW thing: you're adding skills that are only obtainable via cash.

Camo is just cosmetics, it's the extra weapons that rubs WvW people the wrong way. The idea is a flat as hell power curve and add purely cosmetic shit via cash shop so you can show off.

Now, what WOULD be nice is some variety in WvW maps in my opinion. But doing that while maintaining some level of testing and balance is pretty unpossible, so we're basically stuck with what DAOC had: static maps we've all played 500 times on, and the variable is the other players. Which amuses me just fine to be honest.
Setanta
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Reply #96 on: July 27, 2013, 04:03:50 PM

I didn't get the memo that said the wouldn't add maps.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
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