Tom Clancy's The Division

[luckton]

I think the DZ is a goal, not necessarily the only goal. They're going to keep adding PvE content; these new daily/weekly assignments and the new incursions are just the tip. The sky's the limit right now as they put the game to market with really just the bare necessities for a multiplayer action RPG/shooter. Eight-man mission/incursions, the "wanted" poster idea you mentioned, and more of NY to explore.

It sucks for those that signed on early and now they're realizing they need to stretch out their goals a bit due to having a lot more real data to analyze with what real players are doing, but I would assume that's the nature of the beast at this point. An argument could be made that should be doing the opposite, a la Diablo 3: make loot drops more frequent, give all kinds of ways to fix items, get items and enchant items. Bliz also nerfed RNG by killing some useless stats and generally making average drop more useable.

[Venkman]

Here's another really dumb question about DZ? It's it full on free PvP? Or is it more solo stuff but with crazy tough mobs? Or can you choose?

[Ginaz]

Here's another really dumb question about DZ? It's it full on free PvP? Or is it more solo stuff but with crazy tough mobs? Or can you choose?

Open pvp zone and you drop whatever you looted in the DZ, which can be picked up by other people.  You can choose if you want to attack other players but you don't have a choice if they want to attack you.  If you attack a friendly player, you go rouge and can have a bounty placed on you.  There are tougher mobs there, as well.

[Falconeer]

For fairness, when killed in the DZ you drop all the stuff you just looted in the DZ, but only 1/3 of it can be picked up by other players. The remaining 2/3 are gonna stay on your corpse and can be retrieved by you with an old-fashioned corpse run.

[Ginaz]

For fairness, when killed in the DZ you drop all the stuff you just looted in the DZ, but only 1/3 of it can be picked up by other players. The remaining 2/3 are gonna stay on your corpse and can be retrieved by you with an old-fashioned corpse run.

Ah, I didn't know that.  I've only gotten up to rank 17 so I haven't been in there much.

[Falconeer]

Beware of the killer camping your corpse to take the rest of your stuff by killing you again right after you've retrieved it! 

[01101010]

I think the DZ is a goal, not necessarily the only goal. They're going to keep adding PvE content; these new daily/weekly assignments and the new incursions are just the tip. The sky's the limit right now as they put the game to market with really just the bare necessities for a multiplayer action RPG/shooter. Eight-man mission/incursions, the "wanted" poster idea you mentioned, and more of NY to explore.

It sucks for those that signed on early and now they're realizing they need to stretch out their goals a bit due to having a lot more real data to analyze with what real players are doing, but I would assume that's the nature of the beast at this point. An argument could be made that should be doing the opposite, a la Diablo 3: make loot drops more frequent, give all kinds of ways to fix items, get items and enchant items. Bliz also nerfed RNG by killing some useless stats and generally making average drop more useable.

I think we are all aware that the PvE stuff will get eaten through in a day or two and we'll have another month before anything else gets released. It's just the way the players have come to dominate the world. There is stuff to do in the world on the PvE side, but it is hardly 50%. PvE side is dictated by what the dev team puts out, the DZ is primarily player created situations - which change constantly. I'm not down on the game, but we've been down this road many times and it always concludes the same way.

[Azazel]

Beat me to it  

Guess I need to get those cheap mats processed up to High End this weekend. Though as much as the forums and subreddit are on fire over the crafting changes, there's a chance they may not go through. No notice was given in the state of the game addresses they've made in the last few weeks about them; to spring them on to everyone without warning may just be a litmus test.

On the other hand, in light of the DZ item realignments (which makes me rescind my earlier complaints about the system should they go through), it may be Massive's way of trying to either funnel more people into the DZ, or at least make those that just want to farm missions all day for mats pay a higher price for not committing as much risk to getting their rewards. Additionally it makes the item level curve run a little longer, which probably will buy them more time for new players that haven't maxed out yet to generate new content over the coming months.

Aside from the crafting though, the notes look great.

Worried about this. Once you start making people do shit they don't want to do, they'll get up and leave. Feels like they sold a bunch of season passes and now decided to make Mr. Bone's Wild Ride. Forced conflict never works. DZ should be an option, not the goal. And I am not opposed to the DZ since I am almost 40 on one character and 24 on another. Just saying.

I'm still enjoying the game a lot, but seeing the new content is for hardcores, crafting nerfs and so forth I fully expect it to turn into the same old grindy, cock-punching bullshit when I hit 30 and finish the first week or so of "things to do at max level". At that point, I'll stop playing entirely and go play a different game. Same old shit.

 

[schild]

I played a solid 20 hours or so in 3 days and have not bothered launching this since. This game has less stickiness to me than launch World of Warcraft.

[Venkman]

For fairness, when killed in the DZ you drop all the stuff you just looted in the DZ, but only 1/3 of it can be picked up by other players. The remaining 2/3 are gonna stay on your corpse and can be retrieved by you with an old-fashioned corpse run.

Corpse runs, item loss, and corpse camping? Holy shit who needs an EQ Emu server?? Love it! All the old skool charm with a way out!

[Rasix]

Ahh yes, corpse runs.  Miss those dearly.

[Azazel]

I played a solid 20 hours or so in 3 days and have not bothered launching this since. This game has less stickiness to me than launch World of Warcraft.

I find it fun when playing with my wife in co-op missions. Solo, the veneer wears thin quite quickly.

[Falconeer]

I played a solid 20 hours or so in 3 days and have not bothered launching this since. This game has less stickiness to me than launch World of Warcraft.

I find it fun when playing with my wife in co-op missions. Solo, the veneer wears thin quite quickly.

Same. I have around 70 hours invested in this and I am still playing, but never alone.

[luckton]

http://tomclancy-thedivision.ubi.com/game/en-GB/news/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-245982-16&ct=tcm:148-76770-32

Clarification on the crafting changes. The changes are real, but what wasn't in the notes was that every lvl 30+ named mob will now drop a HE piece of loot 100% of the time. The crafting nerf was as theoried; they needed to stretch out the game some more and encourage more mission/incursion/dark zone antics.

Also, the new incursion is "so hard" the lead designer and lead economic balance dev have yet to beat it. Whether that's hype talk or not, don't know, but I'm looking forward to something new.

[luckton]

I played a solid 20 hours or so in 3 days and have not bothered launching this since. This game has less stickiness to me than launch World of Warcraft.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. The game is surprisingly sticky for me, which is weird for me considering I had zero knowledge or care for the game until it launched. Never even bothered to click this thread until that point either. Wildstar didn't grip me as well as this game has, and I was hyped as fuck about that game.

Depending on how things pan out between now and WoW Legion, I may just delay my return to Azeroth.

[01101010]

I played a solid 20 hours or so in 3 days and have not bothered launching this since. This game has less stickiness to me than launch World of Warcraft.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. The game is surprisingly sticky for me, which is weird for me considering I had zero knowledge or care for the game until it launched. Never even bothered to click this thread until that point either. Wildstar didn't grip me as well as this game has, and I was hyped as fuck about that game.

Depending on how things pan out between now and WoW Legion, I may just delay my return to Azeroth.

Well if the grenade spam on the vid about incursions is any indication, you'll experience the Wildstar floor of doom soon enough.

[luckton]

Going live tomorrow. Get those mats converted tonight!

[luckton]

And my first daily DZ mission is: Kill 10 LMB soldiers.

Who only spawn in DZ05-DZ06.

 

[luckton]

Besides the silly daily I got there, my mission log was chock full of stuffs to do today. As it says in the notes, you now get a daily DZ, crafting, and PvE task to do, in addition to the daily hard/challenge mission rotation.

You also get a weekly meta-mission to do that includes a little bit of everything. Was surprisingly easier to get 40 Cleaners in the DZ for my weekly than 10 LMB. And a nice haul of loot thank to guaranteed HE drops to boot.

Have yet to tackle the the Incursion. Will probably try it Friday on my day off. Apparently the trick to beating the APC boss is the old "pick up the bomb from the trash mobs and run it to the boss to blow" trick.

EDIT: Because ubi wants to show off how big their budget is how much they care about this game, here's a fun little video they did to get you involved in the weekly meta-mission.

[luckton]

So yeah...tried my hand at the Incursion. What a . I mean, I read the commentary on the subreddit and other news posts, but I had to see for myself. And they're right.

Aside from that, Massive is quickly learning firsthand the lessons that the devs of other similar games before them learned from their own similar and same mishaps. Interest for the game by and large is declining quickly, although most people still have positive thoughts for the game. They want it to succeed, but good god, how many times must we go down the trail of bones before devs can get it right the first time around?

[luckton]

Devs are trying to make amends by giving everyone 150 Phoenix Credits on the house this weekend. Make sure you've got less that 850 by Friday.

[Surlyboi]

150 Phoenix credits gets you a passable blueprint. Doesn't fix the shitshow of a disparity between those that tried to play legit vs those that glitched the incursion, got a lot of high end and set gear and are now running rampant in the DZ because they're bored assholes.

[luckton]

The 1.2 update is arriving next Tuesday. Devs are hoping for redemption with this one; it's make or break time.

https://youtu.be/y-YqSs-2qOw

Edit: Grammar after 15 hours awake is 

[Surlyboi]

Still not gonna fix enough. I have a feeling that the next incursion is gonna be a similar slam-your-dick-in-a-drawer experience to Falcon Lost. Additionally, they're adding a new grief mechanic in the DZ where you can roll in and cut the rope to the extraction helicopter.

The cheating has gotten so bad that the cheaters are complaining about other cheaters.

All that said, I'll still check it out because the alternative is Overwatch and well, fuck that.

[luckton]

I've read that things have gotten better in the DZ since they started upping their detection game along with ban-times. My biggest grief with the DZ is loosing XP to rogues; fuck that shut. If I die to mobs that I couldn't handle. fine, take my XP as a charge. But loosing progress because some dick is being a dick? Forget it.

That said, you're not wrong about incursions being a bit too hardcore. Hoping for patch notes that address that.

[Falconeer]

As usual, we are at the opposite sides of any spectrum. While nothing turned me off more than cheaters and exploiters, if you didn't lose anything when you died in the Dark Zone than the whole area couldn't be any less interesting to me. It's a Risk vs. Reward zone and it's meant to to change the careless approach of the rest of the game, where dying means absolutely nothing, to better fit the setting and to present a different kind of challenge. If you remove the consequences of dying all you have is just another arena shooter.

Cutting the helicopter rope, that's cool.

[luckton]

Then at least make the reward worth my time. Running around the zone getting countless and worthless purple/blue drops with the occasional yet still inferior in ilvl to what I have gold drop for hours on end is silly. If I wanted to grind like a Korean, I'd play an actual Korean MMO.

Right now I'm a bit too strong for DZ01-02, too weak for DZ05-06, and the loot from DZ03-04 does nothing to help improve me into getting into 05-06. Hoping this gets addressed with 1.2.

[01101010]

Losing XP in the DZ is fine. Not like it affects anything in the long run other than your ability to buy blueprints...which means crafting... which means ballbusting grind. Really thought gaming was past this bullshit Korean grinder model. That is really what turns me off. That and the fact there really is no real risk at going rogue - they lose a slight bit more XP and coin but that's it. Again, stupid. Now they are adding more ways to be an asshole in the DZ which is going to lead to more grind because some chucklefuck decided it would be funny to cut the rope on extraction. All that means ultimately is that you are just going to have to babysit the extraction or wait till the very end.

Not to mention they hired BroShooter Higby from Planetside2... game has soured pretty quick. At least I got my money out of it.

[Surlyboi]

As usual, we are at the opposite sides of any spectrum. While nothing turned me off more than cheaters and exploiters, if you didn't lose anything when you died in the Dark Zone than the whole area couldn't be any less interesting to me. It's a Risk vs. Reward zone and it's meant to to change the careless approach of the rest of the game, where dying means absolutely nothing, to better fit the setting and to present a different kind of challenge. If you remove the consequences of dying all you have is just another arena shooter.

Cutting the helicopter rope, that's cool.

Except the rewards for going rogue far outweigh the risks at this point. There's absolutely nothing to stop you from shooting some poor asshole in the back, taking his shit and then running away and hiding until your timer runs out. Or worse, using the portable shield to glitch your way out if shit gets too hot. Going rogue because you're bored shouldn't even be a consideration, but it often is.

[01101010]

Going rogue because you're bored shouldn't even be a consideration, but it often is.

Pretty much the only reason since loot drops are complete dogshit.

[Surlyboi]

That too.

Though, I will admit, my first piece of set gear fell off a mook guarding a DZ supply drop.

[luckton]

Then at least make the reward worth my time. Running around the zone getting countless and worthless purple/blue drops with the occasional yet still inferior in ilvl to what I have gold drop for hours on end is silly. If I wanted to grind like a Korean, I'd play an actual Korean MMO.

Right now I'm a bit too strong for DZ01-02, too weak for DZ05-06, and the loot from DZ03-04 does nothing to help improve me into getting into 05-06. Hoping this gets addressed with 1.2.

Apparently my hopes have been addressed. 

[Sky]

Ahh yes, corpse runs.  Miss those dearly.

My buddy and I used to regularly play EQ together, I'd go over to his house and we'd have beers and camp Guk or whatever. Wizard + Necro was a great combo for not worrying a whole lot about corpse runs. On the other hand I was the master of sniffing out when things were heading south and finding a nice safe spot to feign death for a bit.

Now, losing levels due to deaths....

[Surlyboi]

Like that time that ranger broke in to the Plane of Hate to set up a base camp and fell asleep. Woke up a few hours later having lost like a dozen levels to constant dying and respawning. I think it was shortly thereafter they put in graveyards where mobs wouldn't spawn or track so you could respawn there and not get fucked up repeatedly.

[Azazel]

Then at least make the reward worth my time. Running around the zone getting countless and worthless purple/blue drops with the occasional yet still inferior in ilvl to what I have gold drop for hours on end is silly. If I wanted to grind like a Korean, I'd play an actual Korean MMO.

Right now I'm a bit too strong for DZ01-02, too weak for DZ05-06, and the loot from DZ03-04 does nothing to help improve me into getting into 05-06. Hoping this gets addressed with 1.2.

Agreed. Risk vs reward? There's nothing worthwhile achievable for me in the DZ so there's no reward. I can't compete with the geared griefers, let alone the gangs of them, and the "git gud" crew can go fuck themselves - or each other when they're all that's left in the DZ in a month or so. I go in there a few times a week to do my dailies (mostly to get the weekly done). Sometimes I get ganked by cocksuckers as I zone in. (lots of risk vs reward fun there)  When I run around and do my dailies I don't bother looting anything at all anymore, as calling an extraction calls the local grief-fuckers from all around to gank. The only time I bother is if the daily is actually to extract 3 items. I haven;'t gotten an upgrade from the DZ since a few days after I turned 30. The whole place is a pointless waste of time.

Apparently my hopes have been addressed. 

I'll believe it when I see it. More importantly, I'll truly believe it if there's something rewarding for me to do 3 weeks after 1.2 drops, since I expect a week or two of loot Pinata's dropping like candy. If it's back to an unrewarding boring bullshit plateau like the one I'm currently sitting on, I'm done for good. Maybe that's for the best anyway - there's plenty of other games out there that need playing.