Water, water everywhere!

[Jeff Kelly]

Interestingly enough even though this is the worst flood in Germany since 1501 (yes records go back that far) with a record water level of nearly 13 m for the Danube (it should be 4.8m at this time of year instead) the flood damage is pretty harmless.

Well Passau has turned into a lake but it always does in the Spring when the Danube gets flooded because they refuse to upgrade their flood protection and drainage systems and have for decades but in most parts of Germany this flood is actually worse than the flood of 2002 (the 'flood of the century as it was called') yet most regions that were hit pretty hard in 2002 didn't have problems now due to upgraded flood prevention infrastructure.

The regions in Bavaria that are highest risk are because of levees that haven't been upgraded since the 1960's due to local administrations lack of foresight and willingness to spend

[Paelos]

Flooding in American cities isn't easy to predict, and population sprawl has moved citizens into areas where they honestly shouldn't be living. That's why you get flooding in rural areas where they put up sandbags, because there's no infrastructure there. Also, if the flooding is big enough in major cities, absolutely nothing you do will stop it. I mean the Atlanta metro area is literally 22,000 square kilometers for the European folks. You're going to try and flood-proof that area from the rivers and lakes?

[Merusk]

The meme that NO failed spectacularly is partially wrong.  It worked wonderfully for what it was designed for.  The problem was that what they were designed for was far below what the ACOE thought they were designed for.   It was assumed soil was better than it was, and it was also assumed that piling were 17 feet deep when they were only 10 feet.  Biiiiig problems.

[calapine]

Downstream from Schärding (my home town), where the Inn (the river that's flooding Schärding), the Danube and the Ilz meet lies a lake formerly known as Passau:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iluy9cx_uxw

I'll make sure to visit soon and support the local economy by having some beer!

[calapine]

Part 2: Got canceled, as I was too lazy to leave the house. Sorry!

So instead I present you some blurry pictures from yesterday, enhanced with the power of photoshop!


View from the Nibelungen bridge, to the right: Green line marks normally dry areas. In the background the amazing unremarkable Castle Linz. Fair weather image provided for comparison. Please ignore the debris in the image center.







View to the left. Lentos museums of arts. Once again the green line denotes nominal shoreline.



That concludes our tour. Please enjoy your stay!

Edit: About those 'mobile walls'. Yes they (and increased flood protection in general) were a lesson of the historic 2002 flood. I have never seen them before, but now they are popping up everywhere in pictures. Seem to be very versatile.

Jeff Kelly's comment about Bavaria and their lack of preparation made me chuckle. We had a similar situation in Lower Austria, and just like Bavaria it's a region where the conservative-christian party rules supreme. As well as nepotism and cronyism. You may be familiar with the type....

Mobile flood walls:

[Bungee]

"Boats crossing"? Really? Oh the irony...

[Ingmar]

Wait, this is happening in summer in a German-speaking country - shouldn't those waterways and parks be full of fat naked men?

[Paelos]

They are in the volunteer fire brigade.

[calapine]

They are in the volunteer fire brigade.

You are trying to be funny, but it's probably true. Hmpf.

Also:

[Ingmar]

Are you trying to tell me that your parks in Austria don't instantly fill full of fat naked guys the instant the sun peeks out from behind a cloud? Because I have heard eye-witness accounts to the contrary.

[K9]

Those walls are awesome.

[HaemishM]

Those walls are awesome.

^ THIS. ^

[Segoris]

I had only heard about these floods, but these pics are crazy. Good luck Euros :)

[01101010]

Those walls are awesome.

Those walls could actually be functional around Pittsburgh in quite a few places.

But this town would never go for it since most of these creatures here are carry-overs from Innsmouth. 

[IainC]

Here's another shot showing how awesome those walls really are. I can't imagine the water pressure behind them.

[Ghambit]

We dont have (many) walls like that in America because we dont have very many places worth fuckin saving.  Better to let it wash away and start fresh.  This postcard place in Austria, on the other hand... well you can see why they get walls.

[Samwise]

Here's another shot showing how awesome those walls really are. I can't imagine the water pressure behind them.

I'd imagine about 5 PSI at the bottom (looks like about ten feet high, and water exerts something like half a PSI per foot of height).  More than strong enough to leak through "solid" concrete.

[Paelos]

We dont have (many) walls like that in America because we dont have very many places worth fuckin saving.  Better to let it wash away and start fresh.  This postcard place in Austria, on the other hand... well you can see why they get walls.

We also don't build many major cities in a huge floodplain that can swamp the entire city. NOLA being the major exception, and they do have all kinds of flood walls and levies.

[Lantyssa]

That river doesn't have much more to go until it becomes a problem.

I am surprised it doesn't rip the concrete that the wall is bolted to up.  It's an incredible picture.

[Jeff Kelly]

We also don't build many major cities in a huge floodplain that can swamp the entire city. NOLA being the major exception, and they do have all kinds of flood walls and levies.

I suppose you do have more cities that are located at rivers than just New Orleans. The current Water Level in Passau is 8 meters or 26 feet higher than the average. I suppose a similar flood would pretty much submerge many US cities located along rivers too.

[Merusk]

Cincinnati had a flood like that in 1995, went up to 2nd street downtown.  Lots of home losses, but buildings on the river all have parking garages on the lower level or are required to have flood walls integral to their structure so they aren't washed out.

[01101010]

We also don't build many major cities in a huge floodplain that can swamp the entire city. NOLA being the major exception, and they do have all kinds of flood walls and levies.

I suppose you do have more cities that are located at rivers than just New Orleans. The current Water Level in Passau is 8 meters or 26 feet higher than the average. I suppose a similar flood would pretty much submerge many US cities located along rivers too.

That would erase pretty much every single town in West Virginia along the Ohio. My xgf's grandmother lives in Wellsburg and you can see the river from her back yard which is only a few feet above its banks. Pretty much the same for every town long that strip.

[Paelos]

Lots of smaller rural cities are built in terrible flooding areas in the US, make no mistake. They don't have the means or the inclination to build flood walls though for a population under 5,000 people.

[Tebonas]

Also, in many areas there's not much choice where to build the houses. Those river valleys or the surrounding mountains.


For example: Innsbruck (provincial capital of Tirol)



60% of Austria are mountainous, the valleys where most of our cites are were carved out of these mountains by the very same rivers that are now flooded.

Of course, there is a discussion going on that many houses were built in "Red Zones", meaning areas that had a very high likelyhood of being flooded. So, as many of those walled off areas were originally floodplains for those rivers, protecting them just moved the water masses downriver to areas that originally wouldn't have been in danger.

And yes it was quite close in some areas. In Greim in Upper Austria for example there were 14 Zentimeter (5.5 inches) missing from the water flooding the whole area.

Edit: Its a lose-lose situation really. All things considered it seems things were handled quite well. Of course, the whole damage can only be assessed once the water recedes. Scratch that, it seems several dams in Bavaria burst and whole cities are flooded.

[Jeff Kelly]

yeah it has literally rained for a month straight now and we had several torrential rainfalls in the last week alone that reached 200 - 400 l/m^2 (5 - 10 gal./sq.ft.) per hour. The soil is soaked to capacity with water and dams are being washed out and weakened by the continuous rainfall and the water pressure from the flooded rivers.

Officials had hoped that the dams hold out until after the flood has reached its apex. This will unfortunately be on thursday and two dams have already failed with more being expected to fail soon.

They were build to last and they held out pretty long  but none of those dams were designed to withstand continuous flooding and rainfall that lasts for weeks on end.

Usually rivers flood in the spring because of the rain and the excess water from the melting snow that comes down from the mountains which usually only takes about a week until the worst has come to pass.

[Ingmar]

We dont have (many) walls like that in America because we dont have very many places worth fuckin saving.  Better to let it wash away and start fresh.  This postcard place in Austria, on the other hand... well you can see why they get walls.

We also don't build many major cities in a huge floodplain that can swamp the entire city. NOLA being the major exception, and they do have all kinds of flood walls and levies.

This is wrong. As an example, St. Louis and Kansas City both require extensive levee systems to protect them from the Mississippi and the Missouri, respectively. Sacramento is also at huge risk should it have a levee break in a big storm. Memphis is another one, I'd guess there are also cities on the Ohio that could get nailed. Fargo ND (not a major city, but still 100k or so) has to sandbag to protect itself from the Red River just about every year.

[Paelos]

America is huge. Of the almost 300 cities over 100k in pop, I wouldn't be shocked if 10% of them have flood issues in the past or current means to stop them.

I just don't think it's a major concern in most American cities by design. We have an ample amount of unsettled land, and we're not hemmed in city design area like Austria.

[Jeff Kelly]

This is how things look right now

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/hochwasser-donau-ueberflutet-grosse-teile-deggendorfs-fotostrecke-97593-tablet.html

[Stormwaltz]

Christ. Are you guys going to be all right?

[Tebonas]

The waters are starting to recede west of Vienna. The East and parts of Germany are still in danger, though.

Still, gotta have your order. Can't drown with a not properly mantained lawn.

[Yoru]

Just spotted some predictions that the Elbe in Hamburg is going to go from 6.25 to 9.75 meters over the next week. Kinda glad I'm up on the Havel/Spree instead of further downstream.

[Ironwood]

The waters are starting to recede west of Vienna. The East and parts of Germany are still in danger, though.

Still, gotta have your order. Can't drown with a not properly mantained lawn.

That's got to be the strangest fucking picture I've ever seen.

[Tebonas]

To quote Yoru from this very thread:

How incredibly Austrian.

[Jeff Kelly]

That's got to be the strangest fucking picture I've ever seen.

If I remember correctly you share some sort of island with another group of people called the English? Shouldn't you then be sort of used to the view of people religiously tending to their lawns?

[Merusk]

Thats what the Scots have sheep for.

Well one reason anyway.