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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  MMOG Discussion  |  Topic: Blizzard's 'Titan' gets reset. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: Blizzard's 'Titan' gets reset.  (Read 57762 times)
Paelos
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Reply #35 on: May 29, 2013, 09:44:23 AM

The advantage Blizzard has when looking at focus testing a game is they know they don't want to copy WoW.

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Reply #36 on: May 29, 2013, 09:44:44 AM

I think it's Wildstar too but not in the way you've stated.  I very much believe Titan was going to be a wow in space type deal, new ip maybe but space for sure and most likely that cartoony look so with wildstar coming out and likely to be popular, they'd look like they were simply copying it.

So basically, Blizzard has been Blizzarded.

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Reply #37 on: May 29, 2013, 09:44:57 AM

Speculation is sort of a waste of time on their projects.

Agreed, but then again we're all wasting time until September and some games get released HEX beta opens.

This is the only game I know of in September. F13 hype machine you've let me down again.

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Reply #38 on: May 29, 2013, 09:46:13 AM

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Reply #39 on: May 29, 2013, 11:23:12 AM

I don't think they're worried about it looking too much like other products.  Blizzard isn't known for their innovation anyway.  They've built their business off of taking ideas that are already in circulation and refining the hell out of them.

Ideas, not the entire look and feel of a game. Wildstar looks to be everything a next gen blizzard mmo would contain, only they got there first cause blizzard didn't want to kill their cash cow.

There's just no way they were scared of Wildstar. They're especially not scared of being thought of stealing the 'look' of Wildstar, considering how derivative that look already is of WoW.

EDIT: We don't need to make up reasons for it. The game was probably having problems, and Blizzard isn't shy about murdering projects that have problems.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 11:31:17 AM by Ingmar »

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Reply #40 on: May 29, 2013, 11:31:46 AM

I doubt this was externally motivated.  Blizzard has been known to tank or reset projects that just aren't cutting it by their own standard.  I suspect this is just another case of that.
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Reply #41 on: May 29, 2013, 11:45:13 AM

Well it's a bit different now than it was 10 years ago since Blizzard is a major revenue engine of publicly listed ATVI so they do actually have some responsibility to their shareholders and board of directors, I don't think the simple justification of not being up to their internal standards would cut it if it mediocrity could have made them 8-9 figures profit. This is why it must have been so bad that releasing it would have been running the risk of a huge market flop.
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Reply #42 on: May 29, 2013, 11:52:47 AM

We just watched them totally redesign and otherwise delay D3 several times, it isn't like Ghost getting killed years ago is the only example.

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Reply #43 on: May 29, 2013, 11:56:15 AM

They are going to have to reinvent the pipeline a bit. A lot has shifted in gaming, and they have never really done well with innovation. The question is what idea can they take and "do right" so to speak.

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Reply #44 on: May 29, 2013, 12:20:40 PM

They've got Blizzard-DOTA and Hearthstone as new games, plus D3/SC2 expansions. And, of course, the most successful MMO of all time (reminder: EQ is up to nineteen expansions and counting so it's not like WoW's going away any time soon, frantic wishes of haters notwithstanding). Frankly, shitcanning Titan and shoving people back onto their actual live games is a blessing.

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Reply #45 on: May 29, 2013, 12:25:16 PM

Oh I agree that's a better plan for the next 2-3 years. WoW will never go away if they actually put content development into the game, instead of just min/maxing subs with the least effort possible.

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Reply #46 on: May 29, 2013, 01:01:51 PM

I'm really not sure I buy this whole "blizzard doesn't care about stealing the look or feel of other games" bit.  Aside from gameplay elements was wow really like any game that had come out before in terms of look and feel? was diablo?

I really feel like the "blizzard copies" is a meme taken too far, it's obvious to me they want their games to look unique even if the gameplay is found elsewhere.

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Reply #47 on: May 29, 2013, 01:05:28 PM

Warcraft is Warhammer.
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Reply #48 on: May 29, 2013, 01:17:10 PM

And Starcraft is 40k with hicks.

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Reply #49 on: May 29, 2013, 01:21:27 PM

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Reply #50 on: May 29, 2013, 01:24:09 PM

I'm really not sure I buy this whole "blizzard doesn't care about stealing the look or feel of other games" bit.  Aside from gameplay elements was wow really like any game that had come out before in terms of look and feel? was diablo?

Diablo is one of the few legitimately innovative things they've done. That game reinvented how RPGs worked on the computer. That was almost 2 decades ago.

Warcraft was completely ripped off of Warhammer, and Starcraft is a rip off of Warcraft and Warhammer.

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Reply #51 on: May 29, 2013, 01:30:14 PM

Wouldn't be surprised if D3's RMAH was a testing ground to see how the gaming community would embrace built-in real money purchasing and selling of items. I'm sure that bombing played a little part in Titan getting shitcanned and reworked.
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Reply #52 on: May 29, 2013, 01:31:15 PM

I'm really not sure I buy this whole "blizzard doesn't care about stealing the look or feel of other games" bit.  Aside from gameplay elements was wow really like any game that had come out before in terms of look and feel? was diablo?

Diablo is one of the few legitimately innovative things they've done. That game reinvented how RPGs worked on the computer. That was almost 2 decades ago.

Warcraft was completely ripped off of Warhammer, and Starcraft is a rip off of Warcraft and Warhammer.

Not exactly disagreeing with you, but Diablo 2 is where the actual innovation happened. Diablo 1 was just a shallower, arcade-y Nethack.

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Reply #53 on: May 29, 2013, 01:35:04 PM

And Warcraft game mechanics were a ripoff of Dune 2, which were then further refined in WC2 and Starcraft.

Even Diablo has its roots in another game, having been pitched as "A graphical rogue-like".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_%28series%29#cite_note-10

This is the 'Blizzard Copies' meme. They take other systems and refine them and were known for doing it.  Their innovations in the MMO space have certainly since been copied but not seen further refinement.

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Reply #54 on: May 29, 2013, 01:42:04 PM

The Diablo one is a shallow copying example, because it didn't invent the RPG. Yeah, well at some point we're all basing things off systems in place.

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Reply #55 on: May 29, 2013, 01:48:51 PM


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Reply #56 on: May 29, 2013, 03:00:04 PM

After the stumbles of SC2 and D3, Blizzard absolutely did the right thing in moving Titan back.  There's not much interest in me to go back to WoW, but I'd like to see Hearthstone be good.
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Reply #57 on: May 29, 2013, 03:45:16 PM

Makes sense, but I don't think it's just that issue. My guess is they were trying to make a full-blown twitch FPS MMO and it just wasn't working.

I think this is the most likely explanation. Still shitty news. At this point it's more likely to turn out as another Starcraft Ghost than another WoW.
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Reply #58 on: May 29, 2013, 05:47:44 PM

Warcraft is warhammer except, not.  I'm not talking about where games got their roots, what systems they are taking or who started it. I'm talking aesthetics and feel, the warhammer universe and warcraft are very different, so are the respective games.  I should also mention warcraft came out nearly two decades ago, I seriously doubt that blizzard is remotely the same company they were then. 

Maybe a younger blizzard could have gotten away with ripping off warhammer, maybe they didn't care about other games like theirs back then. They aren't that stupid now.  To release a cartoony space oriented mmo right next to wildstar would cause their project to get overshadowed and constantly compared to, not to mention that wow still exists.  Wildstar would directly cut into anything Titan offered and Blizzard can't be so delusional to not see it as competition.

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Reply #59 on: May 29, 2013, 06:14:48 PM

You could not have it more backwards. Wildstar is the one that is going to get held up against Blizzard, not the other way around.*

*Not at f13, probably, but by the market as a whole, that is how it will go.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 06:16:59 PM by Ingmar »

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Reply #60 on: May 29, 2013, 06:21:36 PM

If Blizzard had announced these changes at the start of 2012, some people here would be saying that Blizzard was scared of SWOR. I do not think they are scared of Wildstar or Definance or Destiny or any other MMO out there other than WoW. WoW is their benchmark and potential millstone, so they've got to get Titan above that point or be considered a failure.

Do we even know how Wildstar has its payment model set up?

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Reply #61 on: May 29, 2013, 07:02:26 PM

Yeah, sorry guys, it's "Wildstar is aping WoW's art style," not the other way around, for good or for ill. Hell, there were a couple of shots I saw that made me straight up think of Nagrand. It's not a criticism, really, I heart cartoony art (I liked WoW's, I liked the Torchlights, I like Wildstar's), but people would not have gone OMG ART THEFT if Titan is/was a cartoony sci-fi game. If anything, they'd be going "oh gawd, WoW in space." People whine "WoW clone" at everything, even over stupid shit like a mini-map existing, or how the character portrait is displayed.

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Reply #62 on: May 29, 2013, 07:14:12 PM

I'm not saying wildstar isn't taking wow's art style, it very much is. I'm saying wildstar is "wow in space" which means if titan is also "wow in space" then there are gonna be problems. Would more people have gone with titan? probably but the fact that wildstar is coming out first means a lot of people probably wouldn't want to jump ship.  Titan being wow in space would not be the smartest decision.

Also things like adding facebook or rmt? That shit doesn't make you re-evaluate an entire project, that's stuff that can be done fairly easily and has been in several other games.  The only feasible reason would be changing the core mechanics/art aesets of the game.

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Reply #63 on: May 30, 2013, 01:06:58 AM

I played warhammer for *years*, and sorry but the charge that Warcraft is warhammer just is plain untrue. Apart from having orcs who fight humans the games and settings have *nothing* in common. Even the orcs and humans are very, very different in tone, composition, setting and style. Even the first Warcraft game which apparently was originally pitched as a warhammer gamer is significantly different - just because Metzens orcs look like warhammer orcs doesn't make them a copy, it just makes them orcs?

If Warcraft was warhammer we'd have squigs for one thing. We need squigs.

(I would argue that until Warcraft 2 at least warcrafts problem wasn't that it was a warhammer copy, it was that it was far too generic fantasy in general. Warcraft 2 started to create a more tangible Warcraft feel that separated it out).
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Reply #64 on: May 30, 2013, 01:30:11 AM

Warhammer orcs are genderless mushrooms, aren't they? I'm pretty sure Thrall would disapprove.

Anyway, while Diablo was pretty much just a realtime roguelike with fancy graphics and Warcraft was just a shiny Dune 2 with a control scheme that sucked less, I thought Lost Vikings was pretty novel. Of course it was made in the protoBlizzard days, but still!

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Reply #65 on: May 30, 2013, 03:32:02 AM

Maybe Blizzard have anticipated the future F2P backlash and are reworking Titan to be sub based?

I know that I've started to groan inwardly when I see the words free-to-play appended to any promising looking upcoming game. 95% of them get it wrong from my perspective and make games that are either crippled or overpriced with no middle ground.

I can but hope...

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Reply #66 on: May 30, 2013, 03:35:47 AM

Things like Squigs and mushrooms came later. I think they may have actually re-retconned the fungus bullshit out of the background. It certainl'y hasn't been front and centre for some time.

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Reply #67 on: May 30, 2013, 03:58:50 AM

Mushrooms came with Gorkamorka (1997), there was an appendix in Da Uvver Book which explained Ork physiology that I helped to write. Squigs had always been around since WAAAGH! The Orks! in Rogue Trader (1990).

For those who aren't aware of the background here, the story goes that Blizzard pitched a Warhammer Fantasy RTS to GW back in the mid 90s. The game was close to complete when GW for unspecified reasons pulled out and yanked the licence. Blizzard, left with a mostly functional game, changed as much as they had to to avoid legal issues with GW then released it as their own IP. When I was at GW, I spoke to Andy Jones who was head of licencing at the time (also head of Black Library and Warhammer Records) and asked him if that story was true. I got an non-answer in return so draw your own conclusions from that.

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Reply #68 on: May 30, 2013, 09:42:59 AM

I want this to mean that Activision will now allow Destiny to come out on PC.

I can dream, right?

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Reply #69 on: May 30, 2013, 10:29:21 AM

I want this to mean that Activision will now allow Destiny to come out on PC.

I can dream, right?

Has Activision ever locked a product into a single platform other than PC?

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