Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[HaemishM]

Chuck was better.  Eye candy that can act.  Damn, I miss that show.

This. I can safely say that if it wasn't Marvel, I wouldn't still be watching the show. It's the same reason I kept reading the X-Men for years in the early '90's after the fucked over Chris Claremont and the Image guys left. I kept hoping the damn thing would get better.

[sickrubik]

I really, really did not care for Chuck.

[Fordel]

I liked most everything about this episode except for 2.5 things:

1) Agent Terminators attempt to act out rage... lawl

2) Pretty hacker girls 'this isn't you agent terminator!' moments. Just go back to being in your underwear or something.

2.5) The badguys trying to gather up the staff, they sorta just glossed over them utterly. This is only half a nitpick because honestly, I didn't really give a shit about them myself.



Nice little twist though. Some chemistry building between the cast members finally (if we ignore hacker girl at least). I hardly rolled my eyes at all this episode.

[jgsugden]

The Thor 2 tie in was superficial at best.  The events rose out of things not tied to the movie.  That disappointed me.  I hope they do more for Cap II.

[UnSub]

The Thor 2 tie in was superficial at best.  The events rose out of things not tied to the movie.  That disappointed me.  I hope they do more for Cap II.

They won't.

I came to the conclusion with the Netflix announcement that AoS can't afford to do anything particularly interesting in case it steps on some other deal or property Marvel Studios is lining up. Which is why the agents have opponents called Centipede and not HYDRA.

I haven't seen the Thor episode, but thus far the show struggles to have a narrative point. "Burn Notice" was about finding out why he was burned and later on how to reverse that. "Breaking Bad" was about a man's evolution from boring to criminal (and journey of self-realisation). "Buffy" usually put a big bad in place to fight against. "AoS" is currently focused on what happened to Coulsen and what happened to Skye and both are b-plots at best.

[eldaec]

The lack of an overarching plot really does make it feel like they are writing from the 1990s when TV producers believed viewers hated serials and that ongoing plots prevented people joining half way along.

[Tannhauser]

You're probably right.  I was glad they at least talked about Asgardians.  It felt a little more tied in to the MCU with Coulson name dropping Thor.  Not a bad episode, we get some Ward backstory and Skye mostly stays back.  I wasn't bored so that means it's improving I guess.  It's also nice to see Fitz/Simmons being less bubbly, especially the dude.  He's getting a quiet serious tone (at least in this episode and the last) that is maybe in reaction to past events.  Hope they keep that up.  The girl is still in bubbly denial.  Skye is off eating paste.

[Velorath]

The lack of an overarching plot really does make it feel like they are writing from the 1990s when TV producers believed viewers hated serials and that ongoing plots prevented people joining half way along.

It's harder to do overarching plots on Network TV because they're still hellbent on doing 22-24 episode seasons rather than the 10-16 episode seasons a lot of cable shows go with. In some cases like Walking Dead you might even have a 16 episode season but which also has a long mid-season break. If you go back and look at some of the season long story arcs in Buffy, most of the time they feel really drawn out, particularly in the later seasons where they seemed to become a greater focus earlier on in the season.

[Der Helm]

The "deep web message board" made me  but then I read "I rode a horse today :)" and all was 

[jgsugden]

It's harder to do overarching plots on Network TV because they're still hellbent on doing 22-24 episode seasons rather than the 10-16 episode seasons a lot of cable shows go with. In some cases like Walking Dead you might even have a 16 episode season but which also has a long mid-season break. If you go back and look at some of the season long story arcs in Buffy, most of the time they feel really drawn out, particularly in the later seasons where they seemed to become a greater focus earlier on in the season.

They do not have to do a full season plotline. They can have two - one that resolves at the midseason break and another that finishes the year (although both often have a tie to each other).  I believe UOAT will be doing this with the current plotline split.

[Margalis]

I don't have a problem with Monster of the Week TV plotting but this is bad Monster of the Week, or more accurately prop / MacGuffin of the week.

[satael]

I don't have a problem with Monster of the Week TV plotting but this is bad Monster of the Week, or more accurately prop / MacGuffin of the week.

I think this is along the lines of Supernatural's first season (travelling from case to case in an "iconic" vehicle) but it's so long since I watched it that I can't really say for certain when it comes to the plotline (for the first season) in that show (or if the chemistry between the lead actors was as good as it has been later on)

[Mrbloodworth]

Most shows like this start with monster of the week.

[Margalis]

Star Trek TNG is arguably Monster of the Week throughout its entire run. There are some recurring characters and situations but for the most part episodes are very loosely associated. It's also a show about a crew traveling around in a cool plane. I don't think that formula is problematic, it's just the execution here.

[Nevermore]

The first season of TNG was pretty bad.

[jgsugden]

The first season of TNG was pretty bad.

By modern standards, 90% of TNG was pretty bad.  Maybe 95%.  If you added a Data or Worf character to any modern scifi show, your show would be ridiculed.

[Nevermore]

But Data is on Almost Human. 

[Ironwood]

You know, what they should attempt is a whole flashback episode.  Show the SHIELD side of the Thor Movie.  At least then, if they put their soul into it, we could decide if this was ever going to be worth our while...

[jgsugden]

But Data is on Almost Human. 

I hope Almost Human is more than entirely cliche.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Shitting on TNG won't add polish to the shield turd.

[eldaec]

Star Trek TNG is arguably Monster of the Week throughout its entire run. There are some recurring characters and situations but for the most part episodes are very loosely associated. It's also a show about a crew traveling around in a cool plane. I don't think that formula is problematic, it's just the execution here.

It absolutely is, but TNG was actually from the 1990s, so having a common flaw of the 1990s is to be expected.

Monster of the week doesn't stop you making a good show, but it doesn't help.

[Margalis]

By modern standards, 90% of TNG was pretty bad.  Maybe 95%.  If you added a Data or Worf character to any modern scifi show, your show would be ridiculed.

TNG is great by modern standards. It shits all over 95% of genre TV of any era. Apart from the first season it doesn't even look particularly dated.

It absolutely is, but TNG was actually from the 1990s, so having a common flaw of the 1990s is to be expected.

I don't see why this is a "flaw" at all. I would argue that in many arc-based series the arc itself often doesn't pay off or collapses, restricts the show in some way, or has similar problems. It's not like TNG is a show with no continuity at all that can be watched in any order - the show is made better by watching in order and remembering what happened previously, it's just not one tightly plotted narrative - which is not a problem at all in my mind.

I would argue that the arc-related episodes of X-Files are many of the weaker ones. BSG and Lost both went either nowhere or to a dumb place. Many of these arc-based shows make a promise they can't deliver on. A MOTW format also allows for things like making episodes based on submitted scripts (TNG took user-submitted script ideas) or one-off subject matter.

In the end I just see it as a choice. Either format can work as long as you do it well.

[HaemishM]

This episode was one of the good ones. Not GREAT, mind you, but it's starting to get there. I actually thought Ward did a pretty decent job - we finally got to see him be more than just the robotic agent, and it wasn't nearly as ham-fisted as it could have been. Ming Na - still hot and damn right Ward should have gone in that room even if all they did was drink that bottle dry.

Still can't give two shits about Skye though. She is quickly becoming tits on a bull level of uselessness in episodes.

[jgsugden]

This episode was one of the good ones. Not GREAT, mind you, but it's starting to get there. I actually thought Ward did a pretty decent job - we finally got to see him be more than just the robotic agent, and it wasn't nearly as ham-fisted as it could have been. ...

And if they follow up on the 'rage for years' mentioned in the episode, perhaps the robotic agent was a set up that was intentionally stoic to establish the contrast.  However, I don't feel they'll follow through on this aspect...

Still can't give two shits about Skye though. She is quickly becoming tits on a bull level of uselessness in episodes.

Why do people always knock tits on a bull without trying... never mind.

[Riggswolfe]

I'm still watching. I also still think Arrow is hands down the better comic book show.

I see two major issues with Shield that need to be fixed:

1) Skye is a bust of a character. She's an embarrassment if placed next to Felicity from Arrow. That said I am a tiny bit curious what the deal is with her parents but don't think it will be interesting enough to redeem the character.

2) They badly, badly need interesting villains. In my opinion the biggest failure with this show is that the villains are mostly just faceless goons and are very boring. Contrast that with Arrow where you generally have two big bads each season (1 in the present, 1 on the island) as well as memorable one-shot villains every two or three episodes (some of which have become recurring characters). They hinted at this a few episodes ago with that group that was testing supers but they've disappeared again and so far they haven't really given this enemy group an interesting face. It's like Spectre without Blofield.

[MahrinSkel]

"Did I fall asleep?"

--Dave

[Ironwood]

Really bad when they've lost the older Marvel geeks.

[Margalis]

This is how you know a show is bad: when you get to the end, you see a preview for next week, you think "wow, finally, this next episode looks cool", then you realize you just watched a Verizon commercial.

This episode was almost purely a character development episode, but the development came mostly in the form of expository conversations. At some points it almost felt like parody - telling instead of showing taken to extremes. And in the end what they revealed was what anyone would have guessed - just generic "we were on a mission and things went South - she had to do horrible things - when we got out she had changed" tripe.

The fact that this was the backstory they were teasing and that this was the way they chose to reveal it is just...I don't know. It made me go look up the writing credits. This episode was written by Joss's brother and sister and law. Curiously almost every other episode writing credit belongs to someone also listed as a producer or executive producer. I'm starting to think that maybe the show doesn't actually have writers, and it's all producers / Whedon family members writing the episodes. That would explain a lot.

[Abagadro]

Ugh. That was bad.  Giving a couple more weeks then bailing if no improvement.  They are seriously botching things.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Firefly took a few seasons to get good, I'm sure this will follow suit.

[Venkman]

That was sarcasm right?

I am sick, so it's hard to tell.

[Merusk]

Since Firefly didn't even last a full season, yes.  You're beyond sick into delirious.

[Ghambit]

Since Firefly didn't even last a full season, yes.  You're beyond sick into delirious.

Ironically though, it still took a few seasons to get good.   
This won't be one of those shows though.

[Venkman]

Since Firefly didn't even last a full season, yes.  You're beyond sick into delirious.

I know that. But I wasn't sure Lakov was being serious.

And I agree with Ghambit that this won't be one of those shows. Why though remains to be seen

[jgsugden]

If you hate the show now, get out.  I'm not kicking you out, but offering sincere advice. The core of the show is locked in this season.  It won't change.  Use your time elsewhere.  If the show picks up and you're sad you missed it, you can always Netflix/On Demand/etc... it.

Personally, I've been very high on the show, but am disappointed that a lot of the potential has not yet been realized.  However, my hope is that they'll use the holiday hiatus to straighten out some of the things that do not work as well as they should.