Helm's Deeper, Faster, Harder, More.

[Stormwaltz]

This is the sum total of information at the link:

• Experience the Battle for Helm’s Deep – Fight to defend Helm’s Deep starting at level 10, as your character enlists as a soldier in the Battle of the Hornburg, the most massive conflict yet in The Lord of the Rings Online.  Earn rewards for your contribution to the war effort – win or lose, your aid makes a difference!
• Explore new landscapes across Western Rohan - Explore the Westemnet of Rohan and rally each of the five Ridings as Rohan returns to glory. Traverse the capital of Edoras, mysterious Dunharrow, and the fortress of the Hornburg, deep within Helm’s Deep.
• Advance from levels 85 to 95 - Experience 10 new levels, from 85 to 95, with new skills and completely updated class specializations. Both mounted and un-mounted combat will challenge you as you war against the evil of Saruman.
• Continue the Epic Story - Encounter beloved characters such as Aragorn, Éowyn, and Éomer. Restore King Théoden to his rightful lordship and defend the peoples of Rohan at Helm’s Deep.

http://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/warner-bros-interactive-entertainment-and-turbine-announce-lord-rings-online%E2%84%A2-helm%E2%80%99s

[Soln]

Hm.   

[Ingmar]

Can I opt out of legendary weapons yet? 

[Zetor]

That's a lot of levels. I think my main is around... 62? I don't think levelling has gotten any easier, or has it?

[Soln]

I dunno.  I'm back in and dumped maybe $50 or more in the last few weeks on convenience items and fast crafting.  I'm leveling alts and enjoying the ride, since I don't own the last 3 (!) expansions.  Don't feel I have to own them, and not sure I want to.  I like feeling good with my lvl 65 2nd age bow.   Any higher and things start to feel... well you know.   Everyone is at the cap and chasing teal recipes ("this-has-all-happened-before-and-will-happen-again") in 6-man and 12-man's.  I've been happy with the new Moria but things don't seem really that fast TBH.  I think you can play LotRO, watch GLFF, and ignore the expansions.

Still wish they had a cross server instance finder, since one can't queue up and wait for anything.  

Edit: people seem disappointed with War Horses, but I have no idea.  War Horses were the last major new feature added to the game, other than the usual run-o-the-mill content grinding and economy sinks.  Yay currencies.

[HaemishM]

What was improved about Moria? That part broke my will to play the game within like 1 or 2 levels of entering the zone.

[Reg]

Same here. Moria just sucked the life out of me and when the free to play transition tried to make me pay extra for instant travel via horse I was done.

[Soln]

There were many small changes -- like making sure there is consistent lighting, adding way more goat routes -- to full passes on quests.  It feels faster and more fun.  I actually enjoyed it. But to be clear, I got as far as Redhorn Lodes and Fiery Deeps -- I didn't bother with ShadowyPitFungusPlace or the CavernousBalrogHole zone after.  I just went straight into Dimril Dale and start raising my Lorien rep.  I also *always* skip Nud Melek, which is that hateful zones of hallways and stairways with LoS failures southwards below the 21st Hall.  Skip those.

Here are some summaries with links:

http://casualstrolltomordor.com/2012/05/dev-diary-update-7-moria/
http://casualstrolltomordor.com/2012/12/update-9-moria-revamp-part-2/

making sure each area offers enough quests
adjusting the quest flow
adding quests and quest hubs as necessary to assist with leveling
adjusting the lighting so players could see more easily (thank you, thank you)
making it easier to travel from hub to hub (apparently by adjusting the mobs along those paths and adding travel points)
improving quest rewards...

he following areas have been “polished” in this revamp:

Zelem-melek (level 55)
The Redhorn Lodes (level 56)
The Flaming Deeps (level 57)
Nud-melek (level 58)
The Dimrill Dale (monster camp pass only – camps are now less dense)
The Foundations of Stone (difficulty pass only – this zone is now considered “optional” and is not part of the critical path, but it should be easier to manage for the brave souls who want to venture in here)

[Hutch]

My impression of the Dimril Dale orc camps (from having played through them over a year ago) was that they'd be quite harsh for a soloer, unless that soloer was accompanied by a mass of other soloers, if you catch my drift.

In other words, it felt like Turbine tuned it to accommodate a rush of levelers for the first days of the expansion, and then left it.

Fortunately I was duoing with my brother, so it was more of a fun challenge than a death trap.

[Zetor]

While Moria made most of my guild quit, Lothlorien was the area that broke the camel's back. SO MUCH FUCKING BACKTRACKING. It went like this:

Go kill x orcs at orc camp 1, orc camp 2, orc camp 3, and return.
Next quest: Go gather y items at orc camp 1, orc camp 2, orc camp 3, and return.
Next quest: Go kill some named mobs at orc camp 1, orc camp 2, orc camp 3, and return.

I mean, I've seen some bad quest design, but jebus... next time I'm bringing a pickup truck with me and just putting the entire orc camp on it, so I can turn those quests in all at once.

And after that came the Lorien rep grind through boring-as-heck daily quests. Hnnng. (I understand it's not needed nowadays, thank cthulhu)

[Stormwaltz]

Unfortunately, that's the design that's used in Rise of Isengard as well. There were many places I found first by simply exploring, and but there was no playable content yet because I hadn't "unlocked" the area by completing previous story quests elsewhere. Then I'd get 2, 3 quests in a row that would send me back to the same area. Individual quests in ROI are often clever and original (the tech they've added is quite robust), but the way hubs are chained is actively hostile to explorer-types. Terrible, terrible region design.

I miss how Fallen Earth would send you someplace for a kill or collect, and if you took the initiative to defeat the local boss, he'd drop a head that was an alternate on-ramp for the next quest in the chain.

[Tannhauser]

Yeah, I slogged thru Moria, endured Lothlorien and overcame Mirkwood only to finally quit in ROI.  Too many narrow channels, poor quest layout, etc.  I rode out to see Orthanc then logged out.

I might take it back up if I can hang out in Rohan at 10th level though.  Honestly, this is a good game, I just got tired of it.

[Modern Angel]

I fucking loved Moria and you're all crazy! No MMO has ever conveyed vertical scale like LOTRO in Moria. It was just as I pictured it when I was a kid.

So, this. I didn't buy the last expansion because they didn't have the dungeons in at release (they didn't come until what, three months later?). And I'd just sort of played it out. Loved it. Still sort of love it. Might jump back in, just to see Helm's Deep. I wish they'd do something more with the PvP. It's time for a new zone and a new outlook.

[Ingmar]

Yeah I think Moria was a pretty amazing achievement. I mean, I don't think I'd want to level through it again, but I'm glad I did and glad I saw it.

[Numtini]

I got there late to the party, but Moria was fantastic. The most fun I've ever had in LOTRO. Unfortunately, once you leave the doors, it goes downhill really really fast.

[Soukyan]

I'm likely doing something incredibly wrong, but my main is level 33. Gaining levels feels like a walk through knee deep mud. It is such a slog to gain even one level. I cannot imagine ever attaining level 65, let alone 95. Honestly, I think this game has the leveling speed that is closest to EQ1. But, as I said, I could be doing something wrong.

[Yegolev]

Quest XP?  Leveling via monsters is horrendous.

[Cheddar]

I'm likely doing something incredibly wrong, but my main is level 33. Gaining levels feels like a walk through knee deep mud. It is such a slog to gain even one level. I cannot imagine ever attaining level 65, let alone 95. Honestly, I think this game has the leveling speed that is closest to EQ1. But, as I said, I could be doing something wrong.

You are doing something wrong. Go to new area.

[Soukyan]

I'm likely doing something incredibly wrong, but my main is level 33. Gaining levels feels like a walk through knee deep mud. It is such a slog to gain even one level. I cannot imagine ever attaining level 65, let alone 95. Honestly, I think this game has the leveling speed that is closest to EQ1. But, as I said, I could be doing something wrong.

You are doing something wrong. Go to new area.

Hmm. Ok. Have been doing nothing but quests, but it still seems god-awful slow. Am I high enough to start poking around in the Trollshaws?

[Zetor]

If it helps, LOTRO levelling in my experience has been slow as molasses compared to other DIKUs. Have they modified the XP curve in the last 4 years or so (after that one patch way-back-when) at all? After several expansions, it's usually customary to greatly speed up levelling for vanilla content as well as 'old' expansions...

[Ingmar]

I never noticed it being tremendously slow during my occasional visits. I outleveled zones fairly often, actually.

[Zetor]

Well, my only real frame of comparison is WOW, and everything is slow as molasses compared to that.  

It's not just the xp curve, either. There was a LOT of downtime while levelling and doing quests (especially in pre-Moria zones)... like, I'd spend 30 minutes on horse rides just to get to the next step of the epic quest, and lots of riding around between quest 'hubs' and the destination. There were also way, way, way too many group quests that were impossible or hugely tedious to solo (small-group quests were OK to solo, but they were rare). They may have addressed these problems with the way-overdue zone revamp 1-2 years ago, but... yeah.

The one good thing about Moria (and the outside zone) was that quests flowed about as well as WOW-BC -- which was a huge improvement, actually (and I was pretty much the only person in my guild who didn't outright hate Moria... well, I wasn't crazy about that winding "flight path" that took 10+ minutes for no good reason and I had to crank up the alpha WAY too much in the silverlode mines in order to see anything, but eh). Then Lothlorien came out, and with it, the clownshoes were strapped right back on.

[Hutch]

Am I high enough to start poking around in the Trollshaws?

Here is a page that tells you what level quests/mobs are in each zone.

If you're 33, there should be some level appropriate questing to do in Trollshaws, North Downs, and Evendim.

[Ingmar]

Well, my only real frame of comparison is WOW, and everything is slow as molasses compared to that.  

It's not just the xp curve, either. There was a LOT of downtime while levelling and doing quests (especially in pre-Moria zones)... like, I'd spend 30 minutes on horse rides just to get to the next step of the epic quest, and lots of riding around between quest 'hubs' and the destination. There were also way, way, way too many group quests that were impossible or hugely tedious to solo (small-group quests were OK to solo, but they were rare). They may have addressed these problems with the way-overdue zone revamp 1-2 years ago, but... yeah.

The one good thing about Moria (and the outside zone) was that quests flowed about as well as WOW-BC -- which was a huge improvement, actually (and I was pretty much the only person in my guild who didn't outright hate Moria... well, I wasn't crazy about that winding "flight path" that took 10+ minutes for no good reason and I had to crank up the alpha WAY too much in the silverlode mines in order to see anything, but eh). Then Lothlorien came out, and with it, the clownshoes were strapped right back on.

Yes, on downtime I *definitely* agree. My self-appointed mission in LOTRO is to do the entire epic, and because I was skipping stuff and burning through the epic I cannot tell you how much time I spent on horseback just to stop in and tell Elrond 2 or 3 sentences before he sent me back to wherever I came from, repeat ad infinitum.

[Rishathra]

The leveling curve is slow if you are a completionist like me.  Lotro has way more quests and quest lines than you need to level, which is good!  It gives you options.  However, just simply following the story line will have you out leveling the content, even if you do nothing else.  At various points, if leveling is your primary concern, you just have to stop what you are doing and move to a higher area/zone.

Also, the 30's is a pretty low point leveling wise.  I have several alts that I could never seem to get out of those ranks without getting distracted.

[Rokal]

Chiming in late to say that Moria was also my favorite part of LOTRO. It felt real, like an underground city could exist and this might be what it would like like if a kingdom inhabited it. I finished it up a few months before RoI came out and immediately lost interest in playing after taking a few quests in Lothlorien/Mirkwood. They all just felt like generic MMO zones after Moria. It stands as my favorite area so far in any MMO.

[Yegolev]

Am I high enough to start poking around in the Trollshaws?

Here is a page that tells you what level quests/mobs are in each zone.

If you're 33, there should be some level appropriate questing to do in Trollshaws, North Downs, and Evendim.

You can actually get bogged down the other way: doing too many quests.  I didn't think that was the case, but maybe so.

[Rishathra]

You can actually get bogged down the other way: doing too many quests.

That's what happens to me.  I hate dropping them, but there are so many, even if done in order, that you out-level the xp curve.

[Soukyan]

Awesome. Thanks for all of the information and feedback. It sounds like I am running into several issues: the 30s being a slow decade to work through, having too many quests that are too low to make much of a ding in the experience bar, and not leveling in the right places. I'm off to bigger and better vistas!

Apologies for de-railing the thread. Please resume the discussion of Helm's Deep and bitching about Moria. :D

[Stormwaltz]

So, back to bitching about region design post-RoI.

I ventured into Great River via dead reckoning - I had no quest on-ramp, so I just went south from Lothlorien. After completing a couple of super-basic quests at the forest's edge it took me over an hour to find more content that was available to me.

Over.

An.

Hour.

This is absolutely awful design. Whatever clueless manager was responsible for the decision to chain content like this should be transferred to QA so they can spend all day running around to make sure no quest is available if it shouldn't be. Or janitorial.

[Cheddar]

So, back to bitching about region design post-RoI.

I ventured into Great River via dead reckoning - I had no quest on-ramp, so I just went south from Lothlorien. After completing a couple of super-basic quests at the forest's edge it took me over an hour to find more content that was available to me.

This is absolutely awful design. Whatever clueless manager was responsible for the decision to chain content like this should be transferred to QA so they can spend all day running around to make sure no quest is available if it shouldn't be. Or janitorial.

They were laid off.

[Stormwaltz]

Twenty questions about how the Helm's Deep battles will work.

Relevant to My Interests: you can do them solo.

[Nyght]

So we got a dev chat today about the upcoming revamp of class traits converting from a mix and match system to trees.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?521014-TRANSCRIPT-Twitter-Dev-Chat-August-21-2013-Class-Changes

Seems many of the old timers who really tweaked with the old system are very concerned. Target if for 20 skills per class and some classes have many more then that now. So the complex and utility class will get hit the hardest. ( I think I saw a post from Stormy on the forums to that effect).

They seem to be really throwing the deck of cards up in the air here and although past performance is not an assurance of future results, there is good reason for concern. If the expansion hits by years end, I think we could be looking at next summer before the boat is upright and steering properly again.

[Yegolev]

Here's my beef:  I don't get to play very often, but when I do I have to reallocate my fucking legendary points, seemingly every god-damned time.  There was already a UI change that caused me to scratch my head when looking at traits and virtues, and now all that shit that I figured out is going to be flushed down the hobbit hole.  I'd really like it if they could just fix the existing problems and not create new ones.

[Stormwaltz]

Target if for 20 skills per class and some classes have many more then that now. So the complex and utility class will get hit the hardest. ( I think I saw a post from Stormy on the forums to that effect).

Yeah, I was among those concerned. I adore my Lore-Master. She's a Swiss Army Astromech Droid. They're pushing very hard on "specialize" when the LM playstyle has always been "generalize."

In other Helm's Deep news: dirty hackz0rz extract possible expansion maps from game data.