Star Trek: Into Darkness

[Kitsune]

As a Star Trek movie it was eyerollingly bad.  Hilariously so in a couple of spots.  As a generic space adventure movie it was pretty good.  The shame of it being that the actors are all very good at their roles, that amount of effort in casting was wasted for generic space adventure.

[eldaec]

Eyerollingly bad as part of the trek canon would also apply to star trek 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, as well as half of DS9, and all of voyager and enterprise. Arguably even TOS and movies 1, 3 and 11.

Are we saying better/worse than the rest of that mob?

[Khaldun]

It's not nitpicking when characters in movies do stuff that's very nearly random.

If I were watching a spy thriller and there's a chase scene that starts in the back streets of Paris and ends in Cairo where the characters get in cars at one point, drive for five minutes, and are in Cairo, it would ruin any sense of suspense or tension because the characters are no longer following any rules that remotely resemble the world we live in. When you do made-up worlds, you have much more leeway, but not infinite leeway. There was stuff in this movie that was actually worse than the Transformers walking out the back of the Air and Space Museum in Washington DC and being in a desert a few seconds later. The "Scotty trapped in a water pipe in Engineering" sequence in the previous film is totally plausible and fun by comparison to what goes on in this flick.

It's also just not very well-paced or structured even on its own as a space adventure, partly because it's trying so desperately to hit the grace notes of a previous Trek film.

[K9]

This film has sharp knees apparently.

[tazelbain]

I used to think nonsense coming out of JJ was a mysterious plan, now I know it to be lazy hand-waving. Fuck this guy. Fuck Star Trek that isn't Star Trek. Fuck Star Wars, I bet we could cobble together the major plot points of the new movie in 5 minutes. I am so tired of my favorite franchises being skinned and worn like a suit by an asshole who is all style and no substance.

[01101010]

Can't wait till the remake of 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

[Miasma]

Reminds me of the onion video.

[Khaldun]

Was thinking today about why one scene in particular in the 2nd half annoyed the fuck out of me, and how it symbolized where the movie fucked up in the 2nd half.

[Ratman_tf]

Reminds me of the onion video.

Yeah, that's where the "Trekkies hate fun" meme came from, I think. Smart viral marketing. They can shit out some real garbage and anyone who doesn't grin after taking a bite of this crap can be dismissed as a nerdy killjoy.

[Ratman_tf]

Eyerollingly bad as part of the trek canon would also apply to star trek 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, as well as half of DS9, and all of voyager and enterprise. Arguably even TOS and movies 1, 3 and 11.

Are we saying better/worse than the rest of that mob?

I'd put nuTrek under V, if that means anything to you. I can't decide if it's better or worse than Generations.

[Pennilenko]

Well, I did not like this movie one bit. I found it impossible to enjoy because it wasn't realistic enough, I just can't buy into the whole warp travel thing. Also, transporter technology, that shit should be like an ultimate weapon instead of utility device. Bad guy got you down, just evaporate him with a transporter, problem solved, no reason to have characters running around and doing things confusing the audience.

[Ginaz]

you mean u watch movie to be entertained, ginaz? 

I know right.  I must be weird or something.  I'm fairly certain most of the people nerd raging about this movie went into it wanting to hate it.

[Khaldun]

I went into fully expecting to enjoy it very much, just as I enjoyed the first reboot film. My daughter and wife went with total excitement--they'd been looking at trailers, etc. My wife doesn't like old Trek at all, was a huge fan of the first one, my daughter loves most Trek but not in a particularly nerd-intense way. Both of them came out afterwards and before I could say anything started talking about how much they hated it.

So don't assume anything. Please. I fully expected to be defending the movie against old-school fans. It took me very much by surprise how much I disliked it.

[Merusk]

Co-worker who saw it yesterday thought it was OK and enjoyed it as an action movie but said it is definitely, "not Trek."

[Ghambit]

That was my feeling exactly.  Good action movie made better by 8-story imax, 3d, and skywalker sounds.  I'm a Trek purist and I still enjoyed it for what it was.  Was it a "good" movie per se, meh... no.  But I was entertained.  If you spend some time in schools these days you'll see who the movie was meant for really though.      Abrams knows his new audience.

As said by others though, these actors are wasted on Abrams.  Terribly so.  They so obviously are carrying this new franchise it's pretty saddening.  I cant help but wonder what a better overall movie, in more Trek style, would be like with this cast.

[Ratman_tf]

you mean u watch movie to be entertained, ginaz? 

I know right.  I must be weird or something.  I'm fairly certain most of the people nerd raging about this movie went into it wanting to hate it.

After Voyager and Enterprise, I was so frustrated that Trek was in a rut. I was jazzed to hear that Abrams was starting fresh, and  I loved every trailer.

[Samwise]

you mean u watch movie to be entertained, ginaz? 

I know right.  I must be weird or something.  I'm fairly certain most of the people nerd raging about this movie went into it wanting to hate it.

After Voyager and Enterprise, I was so frustrated that Trek was in a rut. I was jazzed to hear that Abrams was starting fresh, and  I loved every trailer.

Luckily you've already been outed as a trekkie neckbeard who hates fun, so nobody needs to listen to any of your entirely valid criticisms.

[Ratman_tf]

you mean u watch movie to be entertained, ginaz? 

I know right.  I must be weird or something.  I'm fairly certain most of the people nerd raging about this movie went into it wanting to hate it.

After Voyager and Enterprise, I was so frustrated that Trek was in a rut. I was jazzed to hear that Abrams was starting fresh, and  I loved every trailer.

Luckily you've already been outed as a trekkie neckbeard who hates fun, so nobody needs to listen to any of your entirely valid criticisms.

I know. I'm going to my room to stroke my collection of Mego Star Trek action figures.

[Ginaz]

Look, up until the last 2 reboots, every Trek movie but 2 (Khan and Undiscovered Country, ok maybe 3 with Voyage Home) have been complete and utter hot garbage.  Truth be told, most of TOS and the first few seasons of TNG were awful as well.  Voyager went on waaay too long and had the least interesting characters of any of the series.   Enterprise felt really out of place with a weak cast.  Last few seasons of TNG and the first few of DS9 was the high water mark for the Star Trek TV franchise, with TNG starting off poorly but ending strongly while DS9 was just the opposite.  The JJ Abrams movies are head and shoulders above almost everything thats come before them Trek wise.

[Ratman_tf]

Look, up until the last 2 reboots, every Trek movie but 2 (Khan and Undiscovered Country, ok maybe 3 with Voyage Home) have been complete and utter hot garbage.  Truth be told, most of TOS and the first few seasons of TNG were awful as well.  Voyager went on waaay too long and had the least interesting characters of any of the series.   Enterprise felt really out of place with a weak cast.  Last few seasons of TNG and the first few of DS9 was the high water mark for the Star Trek TV franchise, with TNG starting off poorly but ending strongly while DS9 was just the opposite.  The JJ Abrams movies are head and shoulders above almost everything thats come before them Trek wise.

I think me and Ginaz are going to have to settle this another way.

[01101010]

The way I see it, the second movie should have boldly went somewhere to do something and the third movie should have come back to this one.

[Samwise]

TOS is kind of painful to watch at times, but even at its most campy, it generally manages to feel like a show about exploring the unknown and wrestling with difficult intellectual problems and, you know, science fictiony stuff.  That's pretty much the thing that's missing from all the TNG movies and the reboots (at least the first one; I've not seen the second one yet).  Have any of these movies involved a moral dilemma, or finding common ground with a strange alien species, or anything like that?

[Hoax]

I really hope someone gets to work with this cast and makes or at least tries to make a good Trek movie. I didn't hate it but I know if I dwell on it moving forward it will become easier and easier to hate it.

After Transformers though anything that doesn't just ruin completely something my younger self loved is good enough at this point.

[Triforcer]

Insurrection is like a really bad season 1 TNG episode. Of which there are many. Look, I loved TNG, but until you get to season 3, there are a LOT of painfully bad episodes.

Insurrection showed me one aspect of Starfleet I've never suspected:  you can play the HMS Pinafore with only two button presses on the main console of a starship shuttlecraft.  How can you not love a civilization that does that? 

[Ingmar]

So, I really enjoyed this. I'm not a super Trek nitpicker, but I know enough to catch most of the references. I thought the performances were solid, the script was snappy, and the pacing was good. Also, it was probably funnier than the first one.

[Pennilenko]

So, I really enjoyed this. I'm not a super Trek nitpicker, but I know enough to catch most of the references. I thought the performances were solid, the script was snappy, and the pacing was good. Also, it was probably funnier than the first one.

You sir, are my new hero.

[Ingmar]

There was one thing that made me laugh that shouldn't have, but it was so funny that I forgive it.

[Riggswolfe]

I went and saw it. I enjoyed it even while noticing its faults. I think it's funny to watch people nitpick it while willfully ignoring similar stuff from other Trek tv shows and movies.

[Stormwaltz]

Early TNG was flat-out awful, and later seasons often suffered from clunkers. I was ready to buy the Blu-Ray Season 1 until I went over the list of episodes and realized they were all bad. "Oh my God" bad. So bad, I wouldn't even show them to my wife (and she's watched all of Babylon 5 with me, including Season 1).

The last season of Enterprise was wonderful. Unfortunately, the previous three seasons were so awful, virtually no one watched it.

And while The Motion Picture is slow and often dull, I still love it as the only Star Trek tale that evoked true awe in me. Between that and The Black Hole, 1979 did a lot to mold my taste in SF.

I went into the previous Abrams movie with a shrug. I actually loved the new cast save Chris Pine, who was handed a smirking frat-boy douchebag of a Kirk. I actually found Scotty more appealing more than the original. The trailers for this one evoked nothing but distaste from me. When I read the plot synopsis on Wikipedia, I was struck by how it seemed to have been assembled by rolling on random encounter tables - there's even a wandering lich.

I'm skipping this one.

A lot of Star Trek was crap. I'm not going to excuse it. But it was crap because it was either too nerdy or too mawkish, the product of people who - like me - didn't spend enough time talking to human beings. They were too deeply fans. When Abrams makes crappy Star Trek, it's because he is not a nerd, and he is not a fan. "Star Trek" means nothing to him. He's just making a movie with spaceships, explosions, and lens flare, taking his check, and going home.

Also, I am drunk. Do feel free to disregard all this as incoherent rambling. 

[Riggswolfe]

Stormwaltz,

I disagree about Abrams not being a nerd. Seriously, he even looks like a walking stereotype of a nerd. This movie is really about what happens when  a "smirking, frat-boy douchebag" has to grow up. See it if you want. I enjoyed it and it is probably my 4th favorite Trek movie behind Khan, 2009 Trek, and Undiscovered Country.

[Ubvman]

I enjoyed the movie but it required a /switch -off brain command for it to work. Accidentally engaging even first gear of the brain caused a mental wreck.

That said, it doesn't make sense.

It has some action good bits and cinematography but it truly falls apart on the basics. I'm not even talking about geeky tech points. Just basic cinema plot common sense.

[Ingmar]

So, to satisfy my curiosity, I went back and watched Wrath of Khan for the first time in years tonight. I would have to say, as entertaining as it still was at times, it was at least as full of dumb plot elements and holes as Into Darkness. I think there's a lot of rose-colored glasses action going on in this thread, starting with the very start of the movie when the captain and first officer of a ship beam down to a planet, BY THEMSELVES, to investigate a reading where they have no idea of what it is or the level of danger involved. I didn't take notes, but there were tons of other places with similar issues, maybe the most egregious being the fact that there's somehow a nebula (a really tiny nebula at that) close enough to a planet that you can drive there in a few minutes without warp speed.

[HaemishM]

starting with the very start of the movie when the captain and first officer of a ship beam down to a planet, BY THEMSELVES, to investigate a reading where they have no idea of what it is or the level of danger involved

To be fair, that's pretty much a standard Trek trope... and it is completely and utterly idiotic. It was idiotic in the 60's with TOS and it still is, but until the show/movie is about Ensign Dickhard and the captain is a bit character/omniscient narrator, that's pretty much going to continue.

[Montague]

I didn't take notes, but there were tons of other places with similar issues, maybe the most egregious being the fact that there's somehow a nebula (a really tiny nebula at that) close enough to a planet that you can drive there in a few minutes without warp speed.

It was actually a large asteroid. /neckbeard

[Arthur_Parker]

I think a lot of Star trek is complete crap, I detested the prime directive whenever it came up because it always seemed to be a roadblock to doing the right thing.  The original tv series was way ahead of it's time though, it's just I never really cared for the later incarnations.