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Author Topic: Season 3 Changes  (Read 20758 times)
Nightblade
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Reply #35 on: December 06, 2012, 12:18:31 PM

My beautiful, underrated AS Kayle build got nerfed into the fucking ground. Really disheartening to suddenly do so poorly with the playstyle I put so much time into honing. I am an unhappy panda. At least now I have motivation to finish the new version of my theorycrafting application so I can come up with something equally weird.

Yeah, in the exact same boat as you. malady is awful for the AS kayle build, and the new percentages and moving speeds turns everything to shit.
Goumindong
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Reply #36 on: December 06, 2012, 12:32:57 PM

Sword of the Divine looks like an item I would NEVER USE. Use it, kill one person, then lose 45% attack speed for 60 seconds? No thank you. Add in the fact that I tend to FORGET to use item activations way too often and it would be a waste of money for me.

100% Crit and 100% attack speed has a lot of uses

1) If you don't crit(say attacking a tower or nexus) you get the whole bonus 3 seconds, making 140% AS for 3 seconds (a very nice boost).

2) The crit only counts for auto attacks, so abilities that can crit get the bonus for "free"

3) You're going to get a kill with it. And each kill you do reduces the cooldown, so realistically its 30 seconds (then 15 seconds).

4) The damage increase is monumental. Consider that, if you have 0% crit the boost increases your raw damage for the next three attacks by 2.1 times. Now consider that they come much faster and you see that in the space of 2 attacks with say, Phantom Dancer[which is more expensive] You get, effectively, 6-7 phantom dancer attacks.

5) Front loading damage is a big deal in both skirmishes and team fights. OK, loosing 45% AS for the rest of the fight is bad, but that will come at the advantage of killing taking an enemy out of the fight that could have done damage.

------------------------

Think of it this way. Suppose you use it first thing in a team fight and use it to murder their tank. Suppose the enemy is using PD instead of SotD. It is true that he is now +50% AS and 30% crit on you, but he still has 3-5 attacks left to kill your tank... and his tank is dead... which means that your tank is now able to apply debuffs to him without having to worry about the other tank doing the same to you.


statisticalfool
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Reply #37 on: December 08, 2012, 05:43:04 AM

From the PBE:

Teemo

[E] - Toxic Shot
Now scales 0.3 (down from 0.4)
[R] - Noxious Trap
Now deals 200/325/450 (down from 200/400/600)

Diana

[Q] - Crescent Strike
Now deals 60/95/130/165/200 (Down from 70/110/150/190/230)


MediumHigh
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Reply #38 on: December 08, 2012, 07:02:18 AM

Liandry Torment, build it now before Riot nerfs it.

Jungle is dead.

The changes has made jungling too slow, and the advantages of going duo top too obvious.

Welcome to the age of hyper carries. Sword of the Divine was removed from the game for a reason....
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 07:04:51 AM by MediumHigh »

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HaemishM
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Reply #39 on: December 08, 2012, 12:20:13 PM

That Diana nerf won't really hurt her all that bad. She'll still do INSANE burst damage, even minus the 30 damage from Crescent Strike. If that's all the nerfing they do of her, she'll still carry a team if properly fed and competently played. The Teemo change will help a good bit, but I've always found it's his insane attack speed that really lets him snowball a fight on top of the toxic shot damage.

I don't know that jungle is dead, but it sure has cut down the number of ganks.

Goumindong
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Reply #40 on: December 08, 2012, 03:56:28 PM

Black Cleaver, build it now before Riot nerfs it.

FTFY

Black Cleavers ArPen stacks at the moment and gives a ridiculous amount of stats for its value.
Nebu
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Reply #41 on: December 10, 2012, 09:59:35 AM

Gave this a try again this weekend for the first time since it released.  Can any of you recommend a toon to play as support in a dedcated 3 man team?  I played some chick with a harp last night (Sona) and she seemed pretty effective. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Bzalthek
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Reply #42 on: December 10, 2012, 10:11:48 AM

Sona is a good bet.  I like soraka for her heals and silence and AE starcall.  Taric has a great stun which can ruin the opponents day if your adc is ready for it.  I hear Nami is op at the moment.  People have been trending to aggressive supports lately.  I've seen a bunch of fiddlesticks, malphite, lux, etc supports.  Kinda depends on how you like to play.  Also whether or not you can land skillshots (I suck at em).

"Pity hurricanes aren't actually caused by gays; I would take a shot in the mouth right now if it meant wiping out these chucklefucks." ~WayAbvPar
Rasix
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Reply #43 on: December 10, 2012, 10:19:13 AM

Most supports are pretty noob friendly.

Here are the easiest.
Soraka - Very passive.  Sustain all day.  Shred MR and silence in team fights.
Taric - Stun. Heal.  Armor aura.  Surprising burst damage.
Nunu - Haste, snowball, and a fun ult.


Slightly harder:
Janna - I've always sucked with Janna.  I miss my tornados, mistime my shield and botch her ults.
Blitzcrank - Hooks. Skillshot and if you miss a ton, people will bitch.  You can really put the fear into people with this one.
Lulu - Lots of tools.  Great ult.  Poly.  Lots of poke damage.
Lux - Skillshots galore. You won't get the AP to straight up chunk people, but you can set up a lot of kills.

I haven't played enough Leona or Zyra to have any opinion on them. Soraka and Nunu are my most played.  I had like a 75% win rate with Soraka.  She's fairly boring to play, however.

For fun you can play someone a bit more unconventional like Morgana, Fiddlesticks or Yorick.  Or you can do a double bruiser / kill-lane bot.  Jarvan/Leona, Blitzcrank/Alistar (aka Blitzstar), or any combo of Xin'Zhao/Jax/Jarvan/Rengar/Pantheon/Garen/Wukong together.  

Have fun with it, especially if you're doing a premade.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 10:21:05 AM by Rasix »

-Rasix
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Reply #44 on: December 10, 2012, 10:24:08 AM

Nunu isn't that easy IMO. Lulu is probably easier, at least to me. I've had some fun with Nidalee as a support but you'll get some weird looks and douchieness from people who don't like her. Probably because she snowballs into a decent damage dealer mid-to-late game. She's also not easy to play at all and if you miss skillshots with her, she can get faced hard. Sona is awesome. Other than that, I'd agree with Rasix on the supports.

Nebu
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Reply #45 on: December 10, 2012, 10:35:56 AM

Thanks guys.  It is a premade and I think I'll stick with Sona and Taric for now.  I like the sounds of Taric for my playstyle.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Rasix
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Reply #46 on: December 10, 2012, 10:37:58 AM

I think people have weird expectations for Nunu.  A lot people just expect him to be a poke machine, which isn't going to be the case in most matchups.  Against an aggressive or poke heavy opponent, you need to play passively.  Almost every idiot thinks it's my job to stand in front of them and eat Blitz hooks.  No, asshole, stand behind a minion and play passively when you need to.  Throwing out snowballs is a waste of time in a lane with good sustain (raka/sona). You have absurdly high base stats, so you'll be a tank later whether you build for it or not.

Just snowball the right person, haste the right person, and use your ult when appropriate and you'll do fine.  I do find it's really hard to win your lane when you're paired with an especially bad ADC.  You'll be forced to max E first, because hasting that moron would be a waste of time.  Soraka is better for playing with morons, although most of them don't realize how high the CD on your heal is and thus just get themselves killed a lot.

Thanks guys.  It is a premade and I think I'll stick with Sona and Taric for now.  I like the sounds of Taric for my playstyle.

Fabulous choice.  Taric provides a great alternative playstyle.  awesome, for real  His late game can be a bit crappy, but you're good at getting picks and your ult/aura are always pretty awesome.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 10:40:18 AM by Rasix »

-Rasix
Bzalthek
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Reply #47 on: December 10, 2012, 12:19:52 PM

If your ad carry is in any way decent keeping him buffed as Nunu is more important than trying to make plays, I've found.

"Pity hurricanes aren't actually caused by gays; I would take a shot in the mouth right now if it meant wiping out these chucklefucks." ~WayAbvPar
Malakili
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Reply #48 on: December 10, 2012, 04:24:28 PM

Late to the discussion here, but I usually play Sona.  Crescendo is just an amazing ult. 
Rasix
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Reply #49 on: December 10, 2012, 04:26:04 PM

If your ad carry is in any way decent keeping him buffed as Nunu is more important than trying to make plays, I've found.

You should see my ELO.  awesome, for real


-Rasix
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #50 on: December 10, 2012, 05:44:49 PM

Not in the right mindset to get into detail but the short of it is, that some supports can carry bad ad and some can't.

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MediumHigh
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Reply #51 on: December 10, 2012, 07:37:57 PM

I never played just press E support nunu. Mostly becaue unles ur with a 1600 elo ad carry being allowed to sit back and let them work rarely pays off. Which is why if I'm in a pure support mood I just rathe be sona. Less dick in hand more play maker. The second reason is that np one knows how to deal with a tanky nunu or ap nunu, both of which can easily shove victory down the enemies throat with or without a retarded team trying to throw the game. Which is the case in 99% of solo que.

Easist support are sona, taric, and blitz.
Easiest for dummies are sona, nunu, and janna.

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Reply #52 on: December 10, 2012, 08:33:23 PM

Mechanically, Nunu is probably the easiest support - you basically have two buttons, one of which you just use on cooldown. However, he has no escape, short range, and is based on zoning, which can make it tricky to be effective with him without setting yourself up to get killed over and over. But those are all skills that will translate well to/from any champ. I like him a lot.
Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #53 on: December 10, 2012, 08:43:18 PM

For some serious poke grab magic pen runes on sona.

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Rasix
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Reply #54 on: December 10, 2012, 10:28:14 PM

First game post patch.  Survived cleaver-land with GP.  Their Garen made some really dumb/aggressive plays while my jungler was nearby. Didn't work out so well for him.

-Rasix
Goumindong
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Reply #55 on: December 10, 2012, 11:17:55 PM

If your ad carry is in any way decent keeping him buffed as Nunu is more important than trying to make plays, I've found.

You should see my ELO.  awesome, for real



Unranked?

Most supports are pretty noob friendly.

Not really. ADC is probably the most noob friendly position. Support has to carry their retarded ADC to the finish line. Supporting is hard because there is a lot more zone control when there are two people in lane and zone control is your entire job as a support. Generally there are three kinds of supports, poke, sustain, and engage.

Anyway, onto specific supports(for the moment i will only have nunu up, will update as necessary or if people have questions): I play all supports except Zyra and Lulu


-------

Nunu: Aggressive against melee supports, passive against poke/sustain supports.  Your primary goal is not really to attack the other guy, but to peel. He generally beats other aggressive supports if he can peel or counter engage since

A: He has the best base stats in the game
B: His bloodboil gives his ADC a massive boost in DPS, generally above the enemy ADC.
C: His snowball gives the enemy ADC a massive reduction in DPS

Nunu's weakness is poke. He(and his ADC especially if they're not safe) are prone to being zoned out of creeps against high harass compositions. This is because the enemy doesn't want to commit to a fight if they're going to out sustain you and because nunu would take too much damage starting one.

Nunu's strength is counter engagement and delay. He has lots of disengage tools and can, so long as his carry has an escape, effectively force the enemy ADC composition to change targets. (by running in after the enemy has initiated). This does not work against leona because your carry will be dead if they get an engage.

Pick Nunu against blitzcrank, taric, soraka, Janna, and nami(?)

Do not pick Nunu against Sona, Lulu, Zyra, or Leona.

------

Zyra: Play aggressive against everyone you win every lane against everyone. Zyra OP.

I don't actually play Zyra but she has a massive AoE CC ultimate, scaling damage for free in her w, free CDR and great CC in her root that goes through minions.

------
Rasix
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Reply #56 on: December 11, 2012, 12:29:14 AM

If your ad carry is in any way decent keeping him buffed as Nunu is more important than trying to make plays, I've found.

You should see my ELO.  awesome, for real



Unranked?

I didn't play ranked for long. I think I got as low as 1K and called it a night in S2 (aka, fucked off back to normals).  Most ADCs at that level could barely last hit. Less than zero map awareness as well. You could ward, ping, scream in chat, and they'd still let the jungler just walk up and punch them in the crotch. If there was even a jungler.  Surprisingly most mids and tops weren't that bad.  They were just dicks. Mid or top was usually the guy that threw the biggest fit or just instalocked in spite of pick order.

Haven't played ranked yet in S3.  Probably not going to, but that might change if I get bored with SWTOR.  I'm guessing my normal elo is roughly 1200-1300 based on my win/loss.  It's hard to translate that into ranked because the asshole factor goes through the roof.

As for supports being noob friendly? At the level most people play here they are, and especially for Nebu, as he's leveling up.  Most have simple mechanics (well, LoL mostly does anyhow) and you don't have worry about YOUR cs for the most part. Clap for yourself if you last hit well with banana queen (it's easier now).

But yes, eventually, you're going to have to carry that idiot along.  Especially if you get on a huge losing streak you're going to be miserable babysitting some jerkwad that's blaming everything on you.  I love the ADCs that think every time you poke, it's "GO TIME!!!!".   Sometimes it's best to just let them die rather than risk the double kill.   Waste your mana keeping the waves off your tower as they run back.

-Rasix
Goumindong
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Reply #57 on: December 11, 2012, 01:00:06 AM

Gotta carry harder yo.
Nebu
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Reply #58 on: December 11, 2012, 02:55:33 AM

So what's wrong with Morgana?  I played her tonight because someone took Sona before me and I rocked the match with her.  I imagine that her root is near useless against better players though. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Goumindong
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Reply #59 on: December 11, 2012, 03:08:42 AM

So what's wrong with Morgana?  I played her tonight because someone took Sona before me and I rocked the match with her.  I imagine that her root is near useless against better players though. 

She falls off hard lategame and isn't able to pressure a large number of popular mids. In order to make best use of her you have to rush Zhonya's. Zhonya's is expensive in first item and doesn't provide the offense that many other popular options bring.

In the lategame its almost impossible to get a good ult off and so almost impossible to make effective use of the character compared to other team fight ult mids.
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Reply #60 on: December 11, 2012, 03:13:30 AM

Speaking of Nunu, any tips for building him AP/bruiser? The AP items are something of an enigma to me since the S3 revamp.
Bzalthek
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Reply #61 on: December 11, 2012, 07:43:53 AM

I was just starting to recognize items in S2, now I'm trying to parse the S3 changes.

"Pity hurricanes aren't actually caused by gays; I would take a shot in the mouth right now if it meant wiping out these chucklefucks." ~WayAbvPar
Nebu
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Reply #62 on: December 11, 2012, 08:18:12 AM

She falls off hard lategame and isn't able to pressure a large number of popular mids. In order to make best use of her you have to rush Zhonya's. Zhonya's is expensive in first item and doesn't provide the offense that many other popular options bring.

In the lategame its almost impossible to get a good ult off and so almost impossible to make effective use of the character compared to other team fight ult mids.

It looks like English... but I can't understand a single word. 

Assume you're talking to someone that has played 3 days and knows none of the 'lingo'.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Rasix
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Reply #63 on: December 11, 2012, 09:35:23 AM

She's stronger early and mid game, falls of a bit late as she has largish cooldowns.  Her shield is great for countering crowd control and countering magic damage, so that's why you'll see her played as support as well as a mid (mid is the middle lane on summoner's rift).  Plus, she's got some good poke and push ability.

Her ultimate requires her to be close to folks, and thus puts a somewhat squishy champ in harm's way. Late game, people will just blow you up really quick and you'll die before you can hit the stun part of the ultimate.  Zhonya's Hourglass can help with that, but if it's down, you're going to get wrecked.

Speaking of Nunu, any tips for building him AP/bruiser? The AP items are something of an enigma to me since the S3 revamp.

I haven't done AP Nunu yet S3 (just started), but I'd go RoA, Iceborn Gauntlet (or FH if you need in lane), Deathcap, Liandry's Torment (I suppose you could go this over RoA), Sorc Boots, and maybe pick one of Abyssal, Lich Bane, DFG, or any tank item.  You can pretty much just play him to the matchup/situation.  A lot of stuff works rather well on him.  You could also just build 2 AP items on him and then go straight tank.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 09:51:27 AM by Rasix »

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Reply #64 on: December 11, 2012, 09:39:10 AM

Morgana, though listed as a support, really works better as a mid to me. Her soil ability makes for fantastic minion farming. She has a great CC ability (the snare) but it requires skill to use (hence the term skillshot). Her E is a immnunity/damage absorb ability that is very helpful unless you are like me and forget to fucking use it. :) Her ULT (the R ability) is fantastic mid game as if you land the skillshot, then soil THEN ULT, you can lock someone down and either get the kill or shred them so much, your teammates can finish them off. She can actually carry. What he's saying is that late game (when just about everyone is level 18 and has full builds), she isn't nearly as much of a facefucker. He thinks to make good use of her, you have to build Zhonya's Hourglass as your first big item. It's a very expensive item and takes a lot of farming to get, slowing your progression down. I don't agree that she needs that item.

For her, I tend to build sorceror's shoes first (adds magic penetration and gives movement speed), then a Rod of Ages (snowballs Ability Power and Health), then decide from there. A Hextech Revolver isn't bad for her (adds AP and spell vamp - like lifesteal only with AP) and you'll eventually want a Rabadon's Deathcap (best AP item in the game).

statisticalfool
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Reply #65 on: December 11, 2012, 10:05:07 AM

I was glad that Morgana has fallen off the "must ban always" chart, although honestly, I think it happened for a reason: she's a really good mid when you're not good at the game, because it is impossible to not get at least moderate CS with her. And when people are less good at avoiding skillshots/flashing out of your ult, she can be great.

But her lanes are almost always passive lanes, and you can find people who do better than farm. And even if you snowball early, you're going to fall off late.

That said, really safe to play.
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Reply #66 on: December 11, 2012, 10:13:58 AM

Morgana has some of the lowest DPS of any mage in the game, even if you can land everything, which can be hard. Late game against tanky opponents there's basically nothing she can do for her team other than ult. Her win rate in pro matches seems quite low to me, to the point where when I see a team pick Morg I just assume they'll lose.

You really need to be rolling downhill from level 6-11 or so for her to be effective.

Also this may change but the most popular AD carries, the guys you want to land a full ult on the most, are some of the best at escaping her ult. In general over time champions in LoL have gained more movement abilities, which hurts her a lot.

Also AP Yi destroys Morg. He does more late game, can farm just as well, and can force her out of lane. His Q does more damage than her shield and healing can mitigate and she can't stop him from healing to full.

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Nebu
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Reply #67 on: December 11, 2012, 10:33:58 AM

Morgana has some of the lowest DPS of any mage in the game, even if you can land everything, which can be hard. Late game against tanky opponents there's basically nothing she can do for her team other than ult.

I noticed this last night.  Melee classes with the self heal thing would blow me up with little or nothing I could do about it after level 12 or so.  I did get many chuckles out of rooting people and then soiling them though.  Good times. 

Sona doesn't seem very effective for 3 man though.  Too little dps and the buffs are wasted if you don't follow someone down a lane.  I'm still trying to figure out what caters to my playstyle and am limiting myself to the free weekly toons.  This is really just something to mess with when I get too frustrated with WoT.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #68 on: December 11, 2012, 10:53:42 AM

Sona is mostly not going to be doing much good if she's by herself. I have ONE TIME seen Sona do a solo top lane by herself and absolutely destroyed her lane opponent. But that was in blind before I hit level 30 and was a very good player.

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Reply #69 on: December 11, 2012, 12:07:59 PM

Just to confirm. You are playing Summoners Rift in your "three man" not Twisted Treeline Nebu?

Anyway. Personal bias, but I would recommend learning the game with Ashe and Annie, mostly Ashe. Ashe just teaches you everything you need to know about the game with a nice set of training wheels.

Her slow + being an attack damage focused champion lets you right-click people and win. You learn to last hit properly, which is an essential skill, while volley helps you farm if you are not great at it and gets you out of danger as and AoE slow, but if you are really overextended you will be punished and learn where not to be (i.e. alone and exposed). Her eagle serves as a training ward and helps you learn map awareness/scouting. Finally her ult is just so fun and multipurpose; either stunning the guy who is right in front of you making a break for his tower, the melee bruiser who just jumped you, or getting a clutch stun from halfway across the map and picking your team up a kill or two, plus it serves as training for the other skill-shots you will be using later in the game.  

Playing a support is good training, but you can't win the game for your team. And at your low skill bracket being able to carry the team if you have any clue about video games at all is key to having fun. I guess it depends if one of your friends plays a good ADC (attack damage carry = uses physical damage and their normal auto attack to kill people with infinity edge and similar items).

But, if you have only played like 5 games ever, most of this does not matter too much. Just play, try and have fun, and learn when it is time to fight and when it is time to run.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 12:15:56 PM by Ragnoros »

"At this point it wouldn't surprise most of the world if the US was secretly building star destroyers." -Arthur_Parker

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