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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  World of Warcraft  |  Topic: It's not you, it's me. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: It's not you, it's me.  (Read 186327 times)
Paelos
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Reply #210 on: January 04, 2013, 07:59:16 AM

Me too. I would imagine he's in lockstep with the players on this one.  awesome, for real

Although even GC can pull a funny: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/281875183554404354

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Xanthippe
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Reply #211 on: January 04, 2013, 08:11:13 AM

He disagrees ??

I'm SHOCKED.

 Ohhhhh, I see.

He knows how to play this game better than anyone. If only players would listen to him, they would have fun. If they aren't having fun, they aren't playing it right/don't have the right attitude/expect too much/need to try harder.
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Reply #212 on: January 06, 2013, 09:24:25 PM

I'm curious what MMO you guys have played recently where you actually did want to log in regularly three months after reaching the level cap. Not even just what expansion pack or update, which is a smaller incremental amount of content, but if you include even new MMOs with substantially more stuff to see. I really liked MoP, but I also haven't logged in since mid-Dec (when I was only logging in for raids with my guild anyway). I don't see that as a problem with MoP or some indication of failure on Blizzard's part though. The genre is stale and new content only lasts you so long. I see it as a success on Blizzard's part that I was able to last as long as I did, where I lost interest in the Rift expansion after 2 out of 10 new levels and SWTOR/GW2 in much shorter than 3 months.

If MoP didn't have the problems I complained about at launch (too many dailies, dailies not fun enough) I still wouldn't be playing right now. What were you expecting from another WoW expansion, exactly?

Honestly, 2 things have stopped me playing much and contributed more than anything else to my cancelled sub.

Too many dailies that appear to be a bit too important, followed by more dailies that are still a bit too important.
Fucking with protection warrior rage. I used to mostly quite enjoy tanking. Now I don't bother anymore.

I came back to WoW at the very end of Cata after maybe 6 weeks at the start (and not getting to level cap in that time or doing all the quests etc etc.) I played solidly and quite happily for more than 3 months after hitting the cap in Cata because I enjoyed tanking.


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Reply #213 on: January 07, 2013, 03:42:56 AM

I just unsubbed again.

Sorry GC, I'm not autistic enough to want to grind dailies for the stuff I need to simply progress rather than the stuff I'd need to be 100% optimal.

And we're back at tiered raiding again; the instant I realized that was the instant I went an unsubbed. I guess I just refused to believe they'd honestly suggest running LFR for every single tier up to the last one with no catchup gear if they wanted to play with their guild or friends after being gone for a tier or more.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Paelos
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Reply #214 on: January 07, 2013, 06:39:41 AM

I unsubbed this weekend as well. I haven't played in a month now, and it can pretty much be laid at the feet of Dailies and LFR.

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Reply #215 on: January 07, 2013, 06:54:39 AM

I actually reactivated 2 days ago ACK! mostly because my guildies are checking MOP out for the first time. I am pretty sure I won't be doing any dailies, though -- will spend my WOW time dungeoning with guildies, levelling an alt, LFR... and cancel again in a month or two.

Paelos
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Reply #216 on: January 08, 2013, 11:34:28 AM

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/285822556517330944

Ghostcrawler now reads minds:

-Linear progression was the worst idea you ever could return to.. you leave behind lots of alt-players and returners.

-Ghostcrawler: We understand that. But the alternative is that other players feel their accomplishments have no meaning if rapid catch up exists.

-Which players? Not the majority. I think you're seeing the tree and not the forest on this one.

-Ghostcrawler:We heard it a lot in LK and Cataclysm, and we could infer it a lot from what players were doing even if they didn't say it.


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Ironwood
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Reply #217 on: January 08, 2013, 02:11:48 PM

Oh FUCK OFF YOU UTTER CUNT.

I'm ok with someone giving me a rational argument and I'm even ok with someone giving me an informed argument with stats and graphs.

Giving me the 'Gut Feel' is WASTING MY FUCKING TIME.

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Setanta
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Reply #218 on: January 08, 2013, 10:33:42 PM

Yearly pass 3 weeks to go. Unsubbed.

I don't log into this game for fun any more. In face, I have no idea why I log in at all.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Xanthippe
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Reply #219 on: January 09, 2013, 09:27:24 AM

I wonder if whoever said that Ghostcrawler gets blamed too much still thinks that?

Why is he not fired or at least laterally transferred? And whose brilliant idea is it to give him a twitter account?

Catering to the 20% (I'm being generous) will not help this game. I thought Blizzard learned that already.  Guess they value that 20% more than they value the 80% who are apparently quitting in droves.

Paelos
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Reply #220 on: January 09, 2013, 10:31:32 AM

It's pretty much only Ingmar that sticks up for him, because he believes he's limited in scope. True or not, he's a terrible mouthpiece.

EDIT: Also the new scuttlebutt on the PTR is that the next iteration of LFR currently has a 486 ilvl. Current LFR only drops 476 and 483 gear. People are freaking the fuck out. General blue response so far has been, don't worry it's PTR and subject to change.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 10:35:46 AM by Paelos »

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Ingmar
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Reply #221 on: January 09, 2013, 11:30:43 AM

I haven't played in months so I can't really speak with any kind of authority on what I think he might or might not be responsible for now. It does sound like the class design has taken a dive to go along with the stuff I tended to blame Kalgan and the content team for, though.

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Reply #222 on: January 09, 2013, 02:42:48 PM

Quote
- @Ghostcrawler why did you take repentance, an iconic ret tool, and made it bad for rets and placed it in a awkward talent tier?

- @steelshatter We wanted less instant CC (still do) and knew cast time would be hard sell for Ret, so we'd let them opt out of it.

I shouldn't read that Twitter feed, it just makes me hate Blizzard as personified by this moron.

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Reply #223 on: January 09, 2013, 03:02:04 PM

I don't think the linear LFR progression is as bad as everyone is making it out to be. There will inevitably be some catch-up gear outside of LFR to augment what you do get, and they've said they'll be increasing LFR drop rates for Tier 14 content once Tier 15 is out.

Forcing people to run Tier 14 LFR for 1-2 months before they could touch Tier 15 would suck. Forcing people to run Tier 14 LFR 1-2 times before they can run Tier 15 would be a nice way to let people see some pretty cool content, learn about raiding, and get some upgrades/transmog stuff. Wouldn't be surprised if Tier 14 was nerfed more in the next patch too.

I'm thinking back to Cata where people came back to the game in droves due to the SoR promotion for a free 80 and server transfer. Dragon Soul (Tier 13) was an awful pile of shit, and most of those players never got to see the vastly superior Tier 11 and 12 raids. As soon as a patch with a new raid came out, the old raids were instantly dead and buried. If they had needed to run LFR versions of those raids 1-2 times before doing Dragon Soul, wouldn't they have been better off?

Moving past the disposable content model is not a bad thing, the trick is in making sure that the old content is a minor speed-bump that encourages people to slow down and enjoy the ride rather than a stop sign that encourages them to quit. It all hinges on how long they expect people to do the content for (in other words, what the drop rate ends up being). 100% drop rate on every boss would actually work pretty well, as you'd only need to run the raid 1-3 times before you statistically see every drop you want for your spec. Of course, the drop rate on Tier 15 LFR would be a splash of cold water for anyone coming from a 100% drop rate, but that's another problem.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 03:05:05 PM by Rokal »
Ivanneth
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Reply #224 on: January 09, 2013, 03:11:32 PM


I shouldn't read that Twitter feed, it just makes me hate Blizzard as personified by this moron.

This is a good point. I was a subscriber for years before I came to the conclusion that I'm not the target demographic for WoW anymore based on things he's said and the direction the game has gone. That's probably not what they want out of their PR.
Paelos
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Reply #225 on: January 09, 2013, 04:00:59 PM

If they had needed to run LFR versions of those raids 1-2 times before doing Dragon Soul, wouldn't they have been better off?

Not really. Most likely they've come back to play with their friends. Disposable content for raids is fine, because for the majority of people using those raids, they are interchangeable. There are always going to be unique encounters in each run, but for the most part, the content isn't ever going to be mind-bendingly revolutionary. The thing that makes them fun for the most part is doing them with people you like or improve your character. For a smaller subset, it's about the challenge. For an even more miniscule subset, it's about having a faster kill than everyone else.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 04:03:10 PM by Paelos »

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Ingmar
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Reply #226 on: January 09, 2013, 04:03:13 PM

Doesn't it also seem likely that the majority of people-coming-to-LFR-late are alts, as well?

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Reply #227 on: January 09, 2013, 04:21:03 PM

I hope MoP starts losing subs the instant the new raid drops and people start realizing that alts will take longer to catch up than anticipated and returning guildmates will need the stupid fucking candy runs of old.

Oh wait, we tuned the raids hard this time so it'll still suck.

I pray this next content cycle is a miserable failure to the point Ghostcrawler and the braintrust behind this shit get sent out to pasture.

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
Azazel
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Reply #228 on: January 13, 2013, 11:23:38 PM

I've unsubscribed. Turns out I have a couple of weeks left because of a RAF month, so I'll play casually until it runs out. I particularly dislike the way that they've made the bonus dungeon rewards daily rather than 7/weekly. It seems to go against their whole stated "play the character you want to when you want to" philosophy.

I also think that Street having a twitter account is also a good thing for us. It's like players called "Pssyeatr". It lets you know how much of a fuckwit they are pretty quickly without needing to slowly work it out or guess.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 11:26:01 PM by Azazel »

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Setanta
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Reply #229 on: January 13, 2013, 11:53:25 PM

I thought I wass on my last month of the annual pass - nope. Two months to go of not logging into this crap game - at least in Eve you get to "level" while not playing. I bought the annual pass for Diablo Three, working on the principle that both games would hold my attention and be worthwhile - who would have thought that they would both be shit?

If this is the state of Blizzard, there's no way in hell I'll be buying the SC2 xpac.


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Azazel
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Reply #230 on: January 14, 2013, 02:54:27 AM

Wow is okay as a social activty if you don't have to pay for it. It's just not worht a monthly sub to me anymore due to cockblockitis and cockheaditis. Diablo 3 was indeed, shit.

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Reply #231 on: January 14, 2013, 03:26:40 AM

For me, I'm amazed people are talking about 'alts raiding' when I have 2 90's and can't be fucking arsed putting all 8 of my other chars through this shit.

Dead for me.  While I HATE IT, I'm having more fun being a bounty-hunter in Swotor and it's DIRE.

Logging in to grow a garden and raid once a week for shinies I don't care about ?  No thanks.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Setanta
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Reply #232 on: January 14, 2013, 05:16:45 AM

You know what I'd like to see? Removal of gear stats. Completely!

Make the game about the player and not the gear. Work out different shinies that don't affect gameplay but demonstrate how e-cool you are.

Bring the player, not the class.

I'm going to get burnt at the stake for this one.

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Reply #233 on: January 14, 2013, 05:47:02 AM

This thread could turn it around for vanguard... Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

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Reply #234 on: January 14, 2013, 05:53:14 AM

 awesome, for real

It all just feels so bland. I'm micromanaging my character so much I can't have fun or experience anything beyond, "oh press this one now.. oh that buff is going, wait for resources then drop it again.."   Plus the amount of time to gear-up is dreadful.  It honestly feels like the "random" drop isn't so random and there's a hidden modifier based on the last time you won/ what your current gear score is.   New characters I win 2-3 drops then it tapers off to one every few weeks (even with coins) and certain pieces just never drop.   It's all combining to be utter shit.

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Reply #235 on: January 14, 2013, 08:54:14 AM

You know what I'd like to see? Removal of gear stats. Completely!

Make the game about the player and not the gear. Work out different shinies that don't affect gameplay but demonstrate how e-cool you are.

Put player buffs on gear, with the item level determining the level of spell cast.  While in a party you barely benefit from gear; in a raid not at all unless you're missing a class buff.

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« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 08:56:20 AM by Sheepherder »
Paelos
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Reply #236 on: January 14, 2013, 10:49:01 AM

More fun with GC's Twitter!

Players: The problem is lack of viable options, in Cata there was only Dungeons, now it's only rep by dailies.
GC: You're going to have a hard time convincing me there are fewer options now. I think some of you just hate dailies period.

Players: tabards give rep. Put a daily cap on rep. Dailies or dungeons. Quit pretending solution isn't obvious.
GC: Obvious but not healthy IMO. Only queuing for instances from cities isn't good for the game long term. WoW needs a world.

Players: Do you feel like CRZ takes away the one advantage small pop servers had of less competition for rare spawns?
GC: We don't really want small pop servers to have advantages though. We think larger pop servers are more fun.

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Fordel
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Reply #237 on: January 14, 2013, 11:11:47 AM

I don't see anything in those new tweets worth mentioning.


You should listen to Ingmar and Sjofn cry about dailies sometimes  why so serious?

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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Reply #238 on: January 14, 2013, 11:15:54 AM

More fun with GC's Twitter!

Players: The problem is lack of viable options, in Cata there was only Dungeons, now it's only rep by dailies.
GC: You're going to have a hard time convincing me there are fewer options now. I think some of you just hate dailies period.

Players: tabards give rep. Put a daily cap on rep. Dailies or dungeons. Quit pretending solution isn't obvious.
GC: Obvious but not healthy IMO. Only queuing for instances from cities isn't good for the game long term. WoW needs a world.

Players: Do you feel like CRZ takes away the one advantage small pop servers had of less competition for rare spawns?
GC: We don't really want small pop servers to have advantages though. We think larger pop servers are more fun.
Okay, I wasn't really a GC hater before, but those 3 tweets make me RAEG.

1] fuck dailies. Dailies are terrible, this is a scientifically proven fact. I wrote a PhD thesis in dailyquestsuckology, but the professor asked me to sign the lab sheet every day. I stabbed him and bathed in his blood. aweriugyhjeghsdfjhg

(ahem)

2] GC should try levelling an alt on a small-pop pvp server sometime. Or trying to do pet battles. You know, the worldy stuff. (Protip: don't try to level alts in Mount Hyjal if you're on a pvp server, there is almost always a group of bored 90s running around 1shotting people. This is also prevalent in some of the old-world zones, but less so in BC and WOTLK zones, thank Cthulhu)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 11:17:41 AM by Zetor »

Ironwood
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Reply #239 on: January 14, 2013, 11:41:58 AM


Players: The problem is lack of viable options, in Cata there was only Dungeons, now it's only rep by dailies.
GC: You're going to have a hard time convincing me there are fewer options now. I think some of you just hate dailies period.

Um.  Yes ?  Which is what your player base has been telling you ?  You Cunt ?  You utter, utter fucking assclown ?

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Rokal
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Reply #240 on: January 14, 2013, 12:43:00 PM

You know what I'd like to see? Removal of gear stats. Completely!

Man, this thread really is just turning into a copy of the "Cracks starting to show" Cata whining thread.

Not complaining about the content of your post Setanta, just the bizarre repetition in this thread where people are making the same arguments and having the same discussions they had 2+ years go.

FWIW, they actually did this with Challenge Mode dungeons and it's pretty cool. I don't think we'll ever see it affect anything outside of hardcore niche content because the gear treadmill and small power boosts are what make the game appealing for seemingly most of the playerbase. Rift tried something similar for PvP gear but canned it when they came to the conclusion that gear is what makes all parts of their game sticky. Until the genre shifts and the base gameplay becomes fun enough to keep people playing even without gear, gear will stay.

It honestly feels like the "random" drop isn't so random and there's a hidden modifier based on the last time you won/ what your current gear score is.   New characters I win 2-3 drops then it tapers off to one every few weeks (even with coins) and certain pieces just never drop.

I can confirm that this is not the case, I still get 1-2 pieces of gear every time I run LFR even though I'm decked out in normal gear and end up vendoring most of the LFR stuff.  awesome, for real

Okay, I wasn't really a GC hater before, but those 3 tweets make me RAEG.

1] fuck dailies. Dailies are terrible, this is a scientifically proven fact. I wrote a PhD thesis in dailyquestsuckology, but the professor asked me to sign the lab sheet every day. I stabbed him and bathed in his blood. aweriugyhjeghsdfjhg

So... you do just hate dailies, proving his tweet correct?  Ohhhhh, I see. What he said is accurate, there is more stuff to do than ever. Whether you enjoy all of the available stuff is another matter. I'm not going to pretend most of the daily factions were fun for me. I will say that I have a greater attachment to the zones in MoP than I did in Cata though and visiting them and exploring areas because of dailies was part of the reason why. You spend more time in them, you have more reasons to come back, and you are given incentive to explore them (lorewalker stories, rare spawns, grey-item treasure objects, etc.). Trying to get people back out into the world and give them stuff to do besides dungeons and raids was a good goal. Giving people stuff to do other than chaining dungeons, hitting 463 ilvl, and then saying "I have nothing left to do" was a good goal.
I'm not even sure what else to say at this point, rep-bitching reached Beating a Dead Horse territory a few months ago. It has turned into the "Dungeons were too hard" of the Cata threads, where it stifles all other conversation and is brought up weekly. Paelos, you've posted near-identical quotes from GC/CMs about this on the last several pages, why was this worth bringing up again? Do you recognize that what you're doing is thread-shitting? Do you think, for example, the D3 sub-forums would be better if I made a new post every week complaining about how boring itemization was?

Players: Do you feel like CRZ takes away the one advantage small pop servers had of less competition for rare spawns?
GC: We don't really want small pop servers to have advantages though. We think larger pop servers are more fun.

It's poorly worded, possibly due to trying to fit the comment on twitter, but it's the same way every MMO operates. It's the reason you see server merges in declining MMOs: they are more fun with other people. CRZ was a way to fix lower-population servers without merging.

I wish Blizzard would just suck it up and allow free server transfers, even if it did result in some servers closing. My raid guild has slowed to a crawl due to the holidays and a general apathy towards continuing to raid. If we decide to stop raiding, I have friends I could continue to play with on other servers but I would quit before I would spend $200 on server transfer fees only to end up in the same situation a year later.
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Reply #241 on: January 14, 2013, 12:50:34 PM

I think you missed the point harder than he did.


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Rokal
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Reply #242 on: January 14, 2013, 12:54:53 PM

I think you missed the point harder than he did.

Paelos continues to think that dungeons should give daily rep, Blizzard continues to think that there needs to be other attractive things to do at 90 besides dungeons and raids, I continue to be sad that the "discussion" keeps repeating. What did I miss?
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Reply #243 on: January 14, 2013, 01:03:42 PM

(snip)
Okay, I wasn't really a GC hater before, but those 3 tweets make me RAEG.

1] fuck dailies. Dailies are terrible, this is a scientifically proven fact. I wrote a PhD thesis in dailyquestsuckology, but the professor asked me to sign the lab sheet every day. I stabbed him and bathed in his blood. aweriugyhjeghsdfjhg

So... you do just hate dailies, proving his tweet correct?  Ohhhhh, I see. What he said is accurate, there is more stuff to do than ever. Whether you enjoy all of the available stuff is another matter. I'm not going to pretend most of the daily factions were fun for me. I will say that I have a greater attachment to the zones in MoP than I did in Cata though and visiting them and exploring areas because of dailies was part of the reason why. You spend more time in them, you have more reasons to come back, and you are given incentive to explore them (lorewalker stories, rare spawns, grey-item treasure objects, etc.). Trying to get people back out into the world and give them stuff to do besides dungeons and raids was a good goal. Giving people stuff to do other than chaining dungeons, hitting 463 ilvl, and then saying "I have nothing left to do" was a good goal.
I'm not sure how 'proving his tweet correct' (me: 'dailies fucking suck' GC: 'some of you just hate dailies period') makes dailies less bad -- btw, I think my hate of daily quests has been well-documented during the last 5 or so years. awesome, for real Dailies are fucking terrible design, and it's not just WOW -- the daily quests in SWTOR, Rift and LOTRO were terrible as well. If you want to get me out in the world every day, take a page out of GW2's playbook. Also, fuck the rep grind in the legendary questline (this has been posted too, so I won't detail it here).


e: I will say though, a lot of this stuff IS being brought up over and over again. But then, if it's the thing (or handful of things) that made most people quit (despite them liking the rest of the game), doesn't that say something in itself?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 01:05:59 PM by Zetor »

Ironwood
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Reply #244 on: January 14, 2013, 01:06:31 PM

I think you missed the point harder than he did.
Blizzard continues to think that there needs to be other attractive things to do at 90 besides dungeons and raids.

What did I miss?

Well, I for one missed what the attractive things to do at 90 are.  Because apart from dungeons and raids, I see makework.  A lot of fucking makework.

Also, the dungeons and raids ain't up to much either.  The scenarios are also woeful.  The item grind ruins all 3.

You tell me what I'm missing, because I think I'm missing the fun.  I used to have fun.  I'm not having fun.  Repeating the same random collection of 20 quests spread over a 5 quest dollop every day ain't fucking fun, no matter what the FUCK Ghostcrawler says.

I do hate dailies.  I can't see how anyone DOESN'T.  He wants us to continue beating our testicles and enjoying it and, frankly, I don't want to.  Because the first hit hurt and after that it just seemed stupid.

So what am I missing ?

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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