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Author Topic: It's not you, it's me.  (Read 186333 times)
Setanta
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Reply #175 on: January 02, 2013, 02:03:38 PM

Pity he doesn't read these forums. I haven't logged in 5 days because every time I did it was "I'm bored"

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Paelos
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Reply #176 on: January 02, 2013, 03:10:36 PM

I logged in last I think well before the Steam sale started. Wow Armory says it was 12/9/12.

So it's been almost a month now, and I can't find a damn thing I want to do in that game right now.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Rokal
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Reply #177 on: January 02, 2013, 04:26:59 PM

I'm curious what MMO you guys have played recently where you actually did want to log in regularly three months after reaching the level cap. Not even just what expansion pack or update, which is a smaller incremental amount of content, but if you include even new MMOs with substantially more stuff to see. I really liked MoP, but I also haven't logged in since mid-Dec (when I was only logging in for raids with my guild anyway). I don't see that as a problem with MoP or some indication of failure on Blizzard's part though. The genre is stale and new content only lasts you so long. I see it as a success on Blizzard's part that I was able to last as long as I did, where I lost interest in the Rift expansion after 2 out of 10 new levels and SWTOR/GW2 in much shorter than 3 months.

If MoP didn't have the problems I complained about at launch (too many dailies, dailies not fun enough) I still wouldn't be playing right now. What were you expecting from another WoW expansion, exactly?
Selby
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Reply #178 on: January 02, 2013, 05:04:48 PM

I agree with Rokal on this one.  The only expansion I played for more than a few weeks after cap was vanilla and WotLK.  And the only reason I played them so much was because I had friends who made playing with them more fun.  I lost that in Cata and didn't have it in TBC, so I didn't stick around that much then.  Now I have friends and still log in regularly, even if we aren't hardcore raiding anymore.  Because it's fun to talk to them and play a game at the same time.  It could easily be darts down at the pub or playing music with the same group, except the common thread just happens to be a game.

If I lose them due to RL issues or them being bored, then I'll move on to something else just like I've always done these last 8 years (ack, long time).
Lantyssa
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Reply #179 on: January 02, 2013, 05:15:04 PM

I'm curious what MMO you guys have played recently where you actually did want to log in regularly three months after reaching the level cap.
GW2 Grin

I'd say CoH, but I never actually reached cap in it.  I kept making alts.

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Merusk
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Reply #180 on: January 02, 2013, 05:39:31 PM

I'm curious what MMO you guys have played recently where you actually did want to log in regularly three months after reaching the level cap. Not even just what expansion pack or update, which is a smaller incremental amount of content, but if you include even new MMOs with substantially more stuff to see. I really liked MoP, but I also haven't logged in since mid-Dec (when I was only logging in for raids with my guild anyway). I don't see that as a problem with MoP or some indication of failure on Blizzard's part though. The genre is stale and new content only lasts you so long. I see it as a success on Blizzard's part that I was able to last as long as I did, where I lost interest in the Rift expansion after 2 out of 10 new levels and SWTOR/GW2 in much shorter than 3 months.

If MoP didn't have the problems I complained about at launch (too many dailies, dailies not fun enough) I still wouldn't be playing right now. What were you expecting from another WoW expansion, exactly?

World of Warcraft.  Vanilla, Burning Crusade and WOTLK.  I hit cap and remained subbed and active nearly daily until after I killed Arthas.  I certainly wasn't ever out for more than a week.  Then I took a break to catch up on a few single player games as Cata had only just been announced and I didn't want to farm Arthas for 6 months.  Came back in Cata and well.. it's been shit ever since. 

Prior to that was EQ.  On daily after level cap for long, long stretches of time until the Gates of Discord nonsense.  Stopped playing and went to find another game, bouncing around until Warcraft.

When a game gets it right I'll play forever.  Content doesn't get stale to me but bullshit grinds and artificial cockblocks to.    I don't bother to level alts in MOP because even with the xp boost they added it's still so much grinding to even get to the fun stuff at the end.  Raiding.   My thief hit 90 a month ago and still can't get in to the last tier of raids because "hey fuck you on heroic drops or valor gearing! grind raids!"

Not to mention, there's too goddamn many raids to run.  There's a sweet spot between too many and too few and 5 raids a week per character is too many when it also has to be done on top of dailies and dungeons to get valor for the new item upgrades.

I was on board with this Xp being good at the start.  Even the "daily grind" wasn't terrible so long as you knew to pace yourself and had other things to do.   They've turned EVERYTHING in to a grind that takes "X" number of hours to be able to do the fun stuff now though, and I'm sick of it.  Fuck grinding for motes, fuck grinding for valor, fuck grinding for rep and gear and you'd better do it all because that's what we're going to demand to get the rewards!   

The prior expansions were fun because you could keep yourself occupied all day if you wanted but it wasn't required.  Now? Now it's fucking required to be on a minimum of 2+ hours a day every day or you miss out.  If you don't log in today and do A, B and C you miss x% of your progression and, hey, too bad you can't make it up tomorrow or on the weekend when you have time!  I've gotten 300 valor points a week on my main for the last 3 weeks because I didn't have time during the week, only on the weekend.

I haven't gotten lucky coins on my SINGLE alt because, hey, I can't grind the minimum of 12 dailies a day on two characters.

I can't level a 2nd or 3rd alt and slowly gear them up like I used to because it means missing out on all of the above for multiple characters because I can't throw time down a black hole.

It's just not fun, punishes the casual player and rewards the catass so fuck Ghostcrawler.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Setanta
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Reply #181 on: January 02, 2013, 06:05:22 PM


World of Warcraft.  Vanilla, Burning Crusade and WOTLK. 

This and

Quote
They've turned EVERYTHING in to a grind that takes "X" number of hours to be able to do the fun stuff now though, and I'm sick of it.  Fuck grinding for motes, fuck grinding for valor, fuck grinding for rep and gear and you'd better do it all because that's what we're going to demand to get the rewards!   

this

Quote
I can't level a 2nd or 3rd alt and slowly gear them up like I used to because it means missing out on all of the above for multiple characters because I can't throw time down a black hole.

It's just not fun, punishes the casual player and rewards the catass so fuck Ghostcrawler.


Pretty much sums up the whole game for me. I used to like levelling alts. By the end of Vanilla I had 4 60s, TBC I had 7 70s, by the end of TBC I had 9 80s, by the end of Cata I had 10 85s. Now I've levelled 3 to 90 and can't give a rats arse about the game as the opportunity to progress them is badly gated by grind on a main, let alone any/all of my alts. Getting my alts into raids even in Cata and prior was fun, as was gearing them.

BTW, I'm still playing GW2 post cap and while I miss the WotLK days of WoW and GW2 doesn't fill that gap, it's still good.

I'm really of the opinion that the whole MMO genre is stale and past its use-by date.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Paelos
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Reply #182 on: January 02, 2013, 09:02:09 PM

I wanted them to stop artificially capping everything, and go back to the Wrath model of "who gives a shit if they have gear? We can put in achievements for the hardcore."

Don't cap valor weekly. Don't cap justice. Don't cap rewards with faction. Don't keep hiding the gear behind more and more artificial walls and busy work. I wanted to run dungeons with my friends who would do it because they could get points that would eventually get them gear, not because they had to get capped for the week. I actually liked the idea of having a "daily dungeon" that was the same for all. It provided some form of unity. I liked the idea of having a server, not just a collection of idiots who you suffered for 30m to get a 25 man gear-up. The idea of LFD was fine. The idea of LFR has been a disaster for the game in my mind, rather than just making the raids easy enough to set up a weekly PUG with some semi-consistent friends you can connect with.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 09:04:34 PM by Paelos »

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Rokal
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Reply #183 on: January 02, 2013, 10:23:43 PM

World of Warcraft.  Vanilla, Burning Crusade and WOTLK.  I hit cap and remained subbed and active nearly daily until after I killed Arthas.  I certainly wasn't ever out for more than a week.  Then I took a break to catch up on a few single player games as Cata had only just been announced and I didn't want to farm Arthas for 6 months.  Came back in Cata and well.. it's been shit ever since.  

So your answer is you haven't enjoyed an MMO since WoW circa 2009, at which point you had been playing the game for 5 years. 3 more years have passed and you still expect the game to hold your interest for long periods of time?

I can sympathize somewhat, the last MMO I played where I logged in daily and felt like there was always something to do without an end in sight was TBC. Other games or expansions have come out since and moved the genre forward a few inches each time, but they felt like rehashes of games I'd already played rather than a leap forward like EQ1 and WoW/TBC. I liked Cata and MoP for different reasons, but I still ran out of stuff to do besides raiding after a month or two. I don't expect the same game (or rehashes) to be endlessly entertaining after so many years.

Not to mention, there's too goddamn many raids to run.  There's a sweet spot between too many and too few and 5 raids a week per character is too many when it also has to be done on top of dailies and dungeons to get valor for the new item upgrades.

It's 3 raids divided into 5 chunks. 16 bosses compared to, in what was evidently the golden age of WoW for you, 13-16 per tier in Wrath. Do you really think LFR would have been a better format with 1 giant raid where people committed to runs for 5-6 hours or had to cross their fingers that they wouldn't get an in-progress run past bosses they needed? It also helps that this raid tier has staggered gear unlike previous tiers, so you really don't have much reason to be running the first two raids (parts 1 and 2 of MV) by the time you are running the last one (Terrace).

It's actually a much more casual-friendly model than any prior expansion's raid content. It asks you to log in for 2-3 hours a week to stay 'current', doesn't require a guild or scheduling, and doesn't ask you to run the same content for quite as long.

I wanted them to stop artificially capping everything, and go back to the Wrath model of "who gives a shit if they have gear? We can put in achievements for the hardcore."

Don't cap valor weekly. Don't cap justice. Don't cap rewards with faction. Don't keep hiding the gear behind more and more artificial walls and busy work. I wanted to run dungeons with my friends who would do it because they could get points that would eventually get them gear, not because they had to get capped for the week.

Your answer to the complaint that "I feel like there is too much that I have to do" would be to remove the barrier preventing players from doing more? If people feel pressured to cap VP at 1000 per week, what makes you think they won't feel pressured to log in more often and spend even more time earning VP without a cap? A laid-back marathon like VP gear upgrades would quickly turn into an intense sprint where you did as much as you could as quickly as you could, much like the old PVP system before caps were introduced, or you were left in the dust. Sure, people would be free to earn VP slowly if they wanted to, but there is nothing stopping them from doing that now. The caps exist for a reason: to discourage unhealthy behavior that is harmful for players and ultimately the game.

I liked the idea of having a server, not just a collection of idiots who you suffered for 30m to get a 25 man gear-up. The idea of LFD was fine. The idea of LFR has been a disaster for the game in my mind, rather than just making the raids easy enough to set up a weekly PUG with some semi-consistent friends you can connect with.

This is the same silly argument people make about LFD, "the game was better when there was a sense of community and you weren't just paired with random people you would never see again". LFD and LFR are the same idea applied to different types of content. The argument against LFD is just as ridiculous and narrow-minded as your argument against LFR. You're ignoring the players that aren't willing to join a guild or watch Trade chat to get into raid content simply because you want to do that content with a less-random group. If you want to do raid content with an established group of friends instead of strangers you can either queue for LFR with a pre-made (I've even seen LFR pugs forming on my server), or you can PUG the normal version of the raid. MoP didn't make the same mistake of having tough intro bosses like Cata, and everyone in your raid also has the benefit of learning the fight via LFR. This means that currently on my medium pop-server, you don't even need to have done the normal version of the raid to get invited to a PuG. There are more tools than ever to casually raid. If you don't want to join a PUG or ask your friends to follow more complex strategies, the good news is that you can still experience the raid content with your friends via LFR.

The prior expansions were fun because you could keep yourself occupied all day if you wanted but it wasn't required.  Now? Now it's fucking required to be on a minimum of 2+ hours a day every day or you miss out.  If you don't log in today and do A, B and C you miss x% of your progression and, hey, too bad you can't make it up tomorrow or on the weekend when you have time!  I've gotten 300 valor points a week on my main for the last 3 weeks because I didn't have time during the week, only on the weekend.

This isn't how any of the prior expansions worked really. You still had specific goals that encouraged you to log in every day or risk losing out on progress, whether it was daily dungeons for tokens, daily quests for rep, or trying to get that last drop out of an instance with a daily/weekly reset. MoP simply has more stuff to do besides raiding/dungeons, which is exactly what people were asking for. Whether you like that content is another matter, but missing out because you didn't log in has been the name of the game since TBC.

I haven't invested much in my alts for MoP either, whereas I played them quite a bit in Cata. In Cata I played alts because there was nothing else to do, and 1-60 is where most of the effort went for the expansion. In MoP I don't play alts because I'm not looking for more to do. 85-90 lasted a long time and there is still stuff for my main to do (which I'm currently chosing not to do). I think having too much content is preferable to having too little and being forced to replay the same content just to have something to do.

FWIW, most of the alt grind has also been removed since the last patch. Reps get to revered just from normal questing while leveling if any of your characters reach revered and buy the server-wide rep bonus. VP gains are increased by 50% server-wide as soon as you cap one character for a week, a big improvement over how VP was handled in previous expansions. I'm still not leveling alts because I've had my fill.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 10:31:12 PM by Rokal »
Hawkbit
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Reply #184 on: January 02, 2013, 11:07:51 PM

So your answer is you haven't enjoyed an MMO since WoW circa 2009, at which point you had been playing the game for 5 years. 3 more years have passed and you still expect the game to hold your interest for long periods of time?

I'm not going to get into a big pissing match here, but Blizzard currently has the money and once had the talent to keep their games fresh and fun (ex. D2).  Simply from a retention perspective, it's Blizzard's job to keep making content that makes the general playerbase want to keep playing and having fun. 

What they've done since about a year into Wrath is pure fucking hubris and flies directly in the face of what companies should do.  There was a time I thought I would die playing this game, I thought it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen.  How did they lose me, and why did they never try to get me back?
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Reply #185 on: January 02, 2013, 11:08:11 PM

Reaching revered in the first place is a problem, especially for the gated factions (where you need to hit revered with the vale faction first).

The last straw for me personally was having to grind mobs to raise my Black Prince rep to honored (legendary quest), and apparently you have to do it AGAIN to raise it to revered in a later step. I had enough of that shit in 2004 when you had to genocide furbolgs in felwood for timbermaw rep, tyvm. Ohhhhh, I see.

Ironwood
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Reply #186 on: January 03, 2013, 12:27:40 AM

I had enough of that shit in 2004 when you had to genocide furbolgs in felwood for timbermaw rep, tyvm. Ohhhhh, I see.

It bears repeating.

(unintentional pun there too.  Bonus)

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Setanta
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Reply #187 on: January 03, 2013, 12:44:10 AM

I understand what you are saying Rokal, but your a lone voice in the wilderness. The reality is that there are more people crying out that the game is busy-work rather than fun than there are the hard-core who want to invest in one character and have gear as an achievement.

I keep wanting to play the game, I have fond memories of WotLK but it's not going to last and when you start to lose your casual user-base to boredom then the game itself dies a little more. The reality is that were being told what is "fun" by Blizzard who obviously didn't learn from Diablo 3. WoW has a stronger base, but the rot is setting in.

As others have said, what I'd love is the WotLK structure of letting your audience have fun their own way, let them be happy with gear etc that keeps them engaged and give the hardcore their achievements/titles and mounts so that they can show the world that they are the hard core.

"No man is an island. But if you strap a bunch of dead guys together it makes a damn fine raft."
Rokal
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Reply #188 on: January 03, 2013, 01:51:32 AM

I'm not going to get into a big pissing match here, but Blizzard currently has the money and once had the talent to keep their games fresh and fun (ex. D2). 

I'd disagree here. Blizzard's talent has always been polishing and refining existing concepts which set them apart in a market full of unpolished products. The average quality of games has gone way up in the last 10 years as the cost to make games has increased and publishers/developers rely on a few big hits rather than a legion of minor successes. Having a polished game is no longer enough, which is why (imo) Blizzard's last couple releases haven't seemed to match their legacy. D3 was an attempt to apply the Blizzard formula to an already-polished concept (loot ARPGs, D2 specifically) with disasterous results.

The last straw for me personally was having to grind mobs to raise my Black Prince rep to honored (legendary quest), and apparently you have to do it AGAIN to raise it to revered in a later step.

You get the rep automatically while doing most dailies. I finished Black Prince rep on my monk long before I finished golden lotus rep, just by doing golden lotus quests. The rep moves even faster in 5.1 with the new faction. If you are grinding mobs you are doing it wrong.
Zetor
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Reply #189 on: January 03, 2013, 02:03:45 AM

The last straw for me personally was having to grind mobs to raise my Black Prince rep to honored (legendary quest), and apparently you have to do it AGAIN to raise it to revered in a later step.
You get the rep automatically while doing most dailies. I finished Black Prince rep on my monk long before I finished golden lotus rep, just by doing golden lotus quests. The rep moves even faster in 5.1 with the new faction. If you are grinding mobs you are doing it wrong.
I WAS doing dailies. I did a week's worth (klaxxi and golden lotus only, since the others are gated) and I barely got halfway to honored. And tbh a week's worth of fucking mind-numbing excuse-for-content daily quests is a week too many, especially since I didn't get anywhere with either faction.

e: you'll also have to excuse me if I'm not jumping for joy about a new daily quest grinding hub in 5.1 making a stupid rep grind marginally less stupid just because you can grind rep while you're grinding rep, dawg. I also wouldn't be surprised to find out that you need to hit exalted with the Black Prince to finish off the legendary questline eventually  Ohhhhh, I see.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 02:17:20 AM by Zetor »

Ironwood
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Reply #190 on: January 03, 2013, 05:17:45 AM

On the other hand, playing SWTOR for a day has convinced me that WoW is still the most fun in town.

 Ohhhhh, I see.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Zetor
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Reply #191 on: January 03, 2013, 05:27:34 AM

On the other hand, playing SWTOR for a day has convinced me that WoW is still the most fun in town.

 Ohhhhh, I see.
No disagreement here. Even though I did enjoy playing through the SWTOR class stories (which are actually pretty good), there's waaaaay too much BC-era quest filler inbetween them. And endgame at level 50... bleh. Ditto pvp (not that it's much better in wow, mind)

Paelos
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Reply #192 on: January 03, 2013, 07:01:16 AM

This is the same silly argument people make about LFD, "the game was better when there was a sense of community and you weren't just paired with random people you would never see again". LFD and LFR are the same idea applied to different types of content. The argument against LFD is just as ridiculous and narrow-minded as your argument against LFR. You're ignoring the players that aren't willing to join a guild or watch Trade chat to get into raid content simply because you want to do that content with a less-random group. If you want to do raid content with an established group of friends instead of strangers you can either queue for LFR with a pre-made (I've even seen LFR pugs forming on my server), or you can PUG the normal version of the raid. MoP didn't make the same mistake of having tough intro bosses like Cata, and everyone in your raid also has the benefit of learning the fight via LFR. This means that currently on my medium pop-server, you don't even need to have done the normal version of the raid to get invited to a PuG. There are more tools than ever to casually raid. If you don't want to join a PUG or ask your friends to follow more complex strategies, the good news is that you can still experience the raid content with your friends via LFR.

All the moves they made since Cata fell on it's face at launch have made the game more solo-oriented. You'd think that would be good, but it's not. The reason it's not is because when stuff gets more solo-oriented, you realize that the actual gameplay of WoW is pretty awful. The reason people stay subbed to these things for years and years is because of friends. I like giving players options, but I don't think one of those options should be tossing you together with a rag-tag band of assholes from other servers that could be faceless bots. It becomes the default. It's what 10 mans did to 25 man raiding. Now, it creates a situation where nobody wants to bother creating a 10 man because there's no real benefit in doing it. It's the path of lease resistance.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 07:03:47 AM by Paelos »

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Ironwood
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Reply #193 on: January 03, 2013, 07:07:12 AM

When's the lease up ?

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Paelos
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Reply #194 on: January 03, 2013, 07:08:50 AM

When's the lease up ?

 Facepalm You know what, I'm leaving it there. I'll never learn otherwise.

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Paelos
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Reply #195 on: January 03, 2013, 07:36:41 AM

Here's some blue defending the Valor Cap:

Quote
There are several reasons behind the Valor cap btw., none of which are to serve as a punishment for people with a lot of time on their hands. Just in case you would like to know the reasons behind the Valor cap, they are as follows:

•To make sure that the normal gearing process through facing and defeating different tiers of content is not circumvented or rendered irrelevant.
•To make your choices matter. We want there to be choice and decision-making involved when building and playing your character.
•To ensure that as many people as possible can use their time in-game on something they think is fun and that they enjoy doing, and not make people feel like they have to spend massive amounts of time every day just to reach a theoretical maximum weekly limit of Valor Points.

Yep, he used one of my favorite fucking dev-phrases of all time. Of course he's lying. It's exactly what it's supposed to be. An artificial gate to keep people from burning down the content, so they draw out the sub. It IS a punishment for those people with time, because they could be done with the game in a month. Also, if our choices matter so fucking much, how's that new talent system working out?

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Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #196 on: January 03, 2013, 08:30:12 AM

The more and more wow became casual friendly I began to lose interest but it' not exactly what you'd think.

All through wrath and the beginning of cat I was what you'd call hardcore but slowly as the game progressed it was less and less. For me the fun always came from the thrill of the challenges and of seeing something new. The more the game progressed those challenges became progressively easier, with the addition of 10 mans and hardmodes both making normal modes easier and now LFR, there was no great barrier, no mountain for me to climb.

I was never concerned with how easy others were doing it or what items they may have gotten, it was never a have/have-not situation.  I had those mountains to climb and they added an escalator, which is fine for others and good for them but once the escalator was added and I rode up it a couple times, all the thrill was gone and while I could stil climb up the hard way it seemed pointless.

~a horrific, dark simulacrum that glares balefully at us, with evil intent.
Paelos
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Reply #197 on: January 03, 2013, 08:53:43 AM

I find it mildly amusing that in the same response he wants our choices to matter, but also wants us not to circumvent doing dungeons and raids gearing process by using our points. So your choice of spending points matters, but you have no choice on gearing the way we want you to.

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Xanthippe
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Reply #198 on: January 03, 2013, 09:23:27 AM

He was a fuckwad who didn't know basic class mechanics when hunter lead, why expect him to not be so when he's got to pay attention to more than one or two classes?

Hes' a tool and bad for the game.  I've said it since WOTLK, despite Ingmar's insistence to the contrary.  WOTLK was in the bag before he took his current position and every bullshit idea since then can be laid at the feet of that marine biologist cum game developer.   

Yes.
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Reply #199 on: January 03, 2013, 09:34:49 AM

I wanted them to stop artificially capping everything, and go back to the Wrath model of "who gives a shit if they have gear? We can put in achievements for the hardcore."

Don't cap valor weekly. Don't cap justice. Don't cap rewards with faction. Don't keep hiding the gear behind more and more artificial walls and busy work. I wanted to run dungeons with my friends who would do it because they could get points that would eventually get them gear, not because they had to get capped for the week. I actually liked the idea of having a "daily dungeon" that was the same for all. It provided some form of unity. I liked the idea of having a server, not just a collection of idiots who you suffered for 30m to get a 25 man gear-up. The idea of LFD was fine. The idea of LFR has been a disaster for the game in my mind, rather than just making the raids easy enough to set up a weekly PUG with some semi-consistent friends you can connect with.

I used to be a huge WoW fangirl because they were so competent at keeping players happy. The apex of this was Wrath - as evidenced by the peak of number of players. Blizzard learned from their mistakes, and fixed them. I bought every expansion - the collector's version - 2 copies, in fact. Until MoP.

Cata taught me that Blizzard no longer is competent at keeping players happy. I've heard nothing about MoP that makes me want to even try it.  Ghostcrawler is the face of Blizzard's failures.
Paelos
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Reply #200 on: January 03, 2013, 10:48:07 AM

I actually hang 5 major decisions on really reducing my "fun" as a result. Most, if not all, of them are things that limit social behavior in the game.

1 - Conversion away from "Emblems of <blank>" to Justice Points and Valor Points. That happened in October of 2010, and it was the beginning of the points/cap/gear clusterfuck we're in now.
2 - Patch 4.1, "The Patch that wasn't" signalled that Blizzard could no longer deliver what they wanted. Firelands was obviously delayed, even though it was promised for Patch 1, so we got the bullshit about releasing stuff faster. Except they didn't. This was when I quit for Cataclysm.
3 - Raid Finder in late 2011. It's changed the game. You can argue for good or bad, but the days of getting people motivated to do anything but queue up for EZ mode are gone in my groups. The loot difference isn't big enough to make them care, nor do they enjoy leveling their pants with the points.
4 - Dailies as content. Originally they were added in TBC with a cap for 10, and were offered to appease the people who hated grinding mobs in order to earn reputations. Things began to get odd when they added the infamous dailygate for Sunwell. Then came Argent Tournament, which was also met with a lot of WTF WHY A RENFAIRE? Then in Cataclysm you got Molten Front, and in Mists you have Landfall and the Invasions daily hubs. In addition to your other daily hubs. Patch 5.1 marks the first time they've released a daily hub with no associated raid. The Patch that wasn't Part Deux.
5 - Guild levels. They stole them from a game that didn't keep subscribers for a fiscal quarter. It's made it so you have to go to a levelled guild, or you are an idiot. It broke my raiding alliance by making everyone focus on their own petty buillshit, and the game has never been the same for me since.

CPA, CFO, Sports Fan, Game when I have the time
Zetor
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Reply #201 on: January 03, 2013, 10:56:56 AM

FWIW as someone not in a raid guild (and I suspect there are quite a few of us) I only had a problem with 4] and to a lesser extent 5] (my guild's still only level 14 despite having been around for-freaking-ever) from that list and I actually liked 1] and 3].

OTOH, 4] is HUGE and makes me want to stab things.

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Reply #202 on: January 03, 2013, 11:43:23 AM

I dislike 1 because they are trying to carry over something that doesn't carry over. I have no problems with converting prior tokens at a set rate, because those rates can be adjusted. I do have a problem with caps and conversions because it limits the overall concept, and it decreases the usefulness of prior content. Also, if you want to, you can't "save" up points at the end of a cycle now, even though you were beating the prior content.

What I'd like is the ability to convert prior tokens that you saved up at a percentage rate into the next level. Maybe at 1/5 or 1/10. It lets you adjust the economies of tokens without doing it with a hard cap.

I also left out one thing I hate from way back:

6 - Hard Enrage Timers. Hate Hate Hate these. I'm ok with progressive buffs, progressive debuffs, or even add accumulation defining a soft "oh fuck we're doomed" moment. The whole 5m and you're toast concept can die in a fucking fire.

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Reply #203 on: January 03, 2013, 12:19:45 PM

Yeah, Firelands was when it broke for me.  The abortion of dailies coupled with phasing was a frankensteins monster of utter suck.

Yes, there's a new area, but you don't get to see it until you WORK FOR IT PEON.

Fuck.  That.


And now there's a whole expansion full of them.

Swtor still sucks my dead grans clit tho.  Fucking awful.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Ivanneth
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Reply #204 on: January 03, 2013, 12:44:24 PM


A google search doesn't yield a whole lot: is Fernando Berriel someone of significance, or is Ghostcrawler responding to random_internet_guy0003938?
Ironwood
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Reply #205 on: January 03, 2013, 12:46:38 PM

It's Paelos.  It's his Accountant Name.

It's like having a porn name, except shit boring.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Paelos
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Reply #206 on: January 03, 2013, 01:20:00 PM

Yeah I don't follow Ghostcrawler. Besides, my accounting name is Melvin Gold.

It's just random douche spamming GC. They pulled GC off regular forums because he was pissing off everyone, but he still has a twitter for now. I doubt that will last.

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Fordel
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Reply #207 on: January 03, 2013, 01:23:27 PM

Sunwell was still the best daily hub they ever made in the end. It gave the peasants a desperately needed regular income for like 15 minutes of questing.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Paelos
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Reply #208 on: January 04, 2013, 07:34:50 AM

Yeah, Firelands was when it broke for me.  The abortion of dailies coupled with phasing was a frankensteins monster of utter suck.

GC disagrees with you: "Cataclysm's dailies were a totally different beast until the Molten Front quests, which were very popular."

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/282566075231649792


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Ironwood
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Reply #209 on: January 04, 2013, 07:54:24 AM

He disagrees ??

I'm SHOCKED.

 Ohhhhh, I see.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
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