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Author Topic: Minethings  (Read 18101 times)
Azuredream
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Reply #35 on: August 15, 2012, 01:43:06 AM

Yellow vehicles can only carry yellow items but consequently they can only be attacked by yellow vehicles. Anyone who is a highwayman (the vehicle robbing profession) has to have 30 melds to even have the option, and if you've got 30 melds you've got better things to rob than yellow vehicles. Thus, until you move up to trading green or better items your chances of being robbed are virtually nil.

The Lord of the Land approaches..
Samwise
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Reply #36 on: August 15, 2012, 08:50:51 AM

I'm at 10 melds now.  Thinking about switching from trader to merchant so I can get at that city across the ocean.   DRILLING AND MANLINESS

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Ghambit
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Reply #37 on: August 15, 2012, 02:24:26 PM

So I sent out a rickshaw and it landed in a mysterious city with no inhabitants and nothing for sale.  Kinda weird.  Are cities somewhat random???

edit:  ok, it's jct. butte.  I guess it's kind of a 'weigh station' city with no market.  Might be an interesting place to move to being centralized, but there's no market here at all.

I'm at 10 melds now.  Thinking about switching from trader to merchant so I can get at that city across the ocean.   DRILLING AND MANLINESS

Turning into a pirate down the road and pwning the seas is an intriguing proposition.  Wouldn't do it w/o a guild of some kind though.
Btw, I'm "Ghambit" in-game.  Dont shoot me.   awesome, for real
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 02:36:33 PM by Ghambit »

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Samwise
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Reply #38 on: August 15, 2012, 02:52:35 PM

The market-less cities only exist to provide alternate (longer) shipping routes.  

The idea is that since they're a complete waste of time, most traders will avoid them and therefore most highwaymen will as well, which means that if you're shipping something really valuable you might want to ship it the long way to reduce exposure.  Of course, if all the really valuable stuff gets shipped the long way then you're better off pillaging that route than the direct one...


"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Ghambit
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Reply #39 on: August 15, 2012, 04:07:22 PM

How is it longer when on the map it's smack dab in the center of everything?  I can trade with 3 cities equidistant from there.

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Samwise
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Reply #40 on: August 15, 2012, 04:08:58 PM

(edit) I had a diagram all drawn up, but no, I refuse to explain basic math to you.  You'll work it out.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

(edit edit) Okay, I'll give you a hint.  Where are you going to get the stuff you're trading from your equidistant stronghold?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 04:10:46 PM by Samwise »

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Samwise
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Reply #41 on: August 15, 2012, 06:22:06 PM

Observation: it's possible to make money through trading without actually moving goods around.  

There's always a gap between the highest bid and the lowest listing for an item.  Place a bid for an item, wait for someone who's impatient to sell to accept your bid, then place a listing at a higher price, and wait for someone who's impatient to buy to accept your listing.

Mind you, it might take a day or two for someone to accept your listing.  As with long-distance trading, it essentially boils down to renting your time and inventory space to people who are short on either or both.  The main difference with long-distance trading is that you're able to make more per transaction because people are willing to pay more to save the time and hassle it takes to ship things between cities.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
ezrast
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Reply #42 on: August 15, 2012, 06:40:24 PM

I thought about trying to figure out what sort of living I could make just flipping goods as a bum but then I realized if I wanted to do that I would just play City of Heroes. I bet it could be pretty lucrative though considering how large the inventory is, and that you can have more bids outstanding than you actually have the gold for (they'll automatically get canceled if your gold drops too low to honor them).
Morat20
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Reply #43 on: August 16, 2012, 06:41:52 AM

Wow. Gold mining is slow. My miner is fully equipped though, with all crap gear. So 47 whole buckets an hour, and exactly 6 gold to show for the last 12.

Hooray. Did they nerf mining? :) Maybe I should start digging for items now in the starter mine. I think it's clothes or something.
Samwise
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Reply #44 on: August 16, 2012, 08:52:41 AM

Mining is both random and slow.  Every now and then you'll get a big strike, but overall you won't make money very quickly from a starter mine.  The way mining works in a nutshell is that you get a "find" every 200 "buckets" or so, which means that at 47 buckets an hour you'll get a find roughly every four hours.  It breaks down to something like 80% "yellow" finds, 17% "green" finds, and increasingly tiny chances of better stuff.

The average yellow-equivalent gold find seems to be about 3g; when you see those bigger strikes like 20g that was the equivalent of a green, the rarer 100g finds are like blues, etc.  With most mine types you'll be able to get maybe 5-10g on the market for a yellow thing you find, so mining things makes more sense than mining gold in those cases.  The problem with mining things at a starter mine is that the market is saturated with those items, so you'll have a hard time selling your yellow finds for more than 1g, if anything. 

The exception is bolts, which sell pretty good at non-noob towns because you need them to install mods onto non-noob vehicles, but it still makes more sense to mine gold at your starter mine, buy the bolts on the local market for 1g each from some sucker who doesn't know better, and then sell them at a 400% markup in another town.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Ghambit
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Reply #45 on: August 16, 2012, 04:22:38 PM

Spamwise, I see you trying to bolster the bolt market in Franco.   awesome, for real   Methinks that market will be saturated soon though.
Anyways, how do you make your mine NOT a "starter mine."

"See, the beauty of webgames is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom."  -Samwise
Samwise
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Reply #46 on: August 16, 2012, 04:32:37 PM

Anyways, how do you make your mine NOT a "starter mine."

You don't.  You buy a new mine.  Click "SHOP", you'll see the mines for sale.  Each type of mine can only be purchased in one particular city; if you click "show all mine markets" you'll see mines that can be purchased in other cities (at least the cities you have access to by virtue of having explored them with a vehicle).

You can use up to three mines at once, in any location (items are always produced in the location of the mine, of course).  Hence my plan to buy two more starter mines before I do anything else; right now I'm wasting 50 buckets per hour worth of free mining because I only own one mine.  The problem is that even starter mines, which are the cheapest, are expensive as hell.  I've only got about 100g banked so far, and a starter mine goes for about 2700g.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 04:35:30 PM by Samwise »

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
tazelbain
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Reply #47 on: August 16, 2012, 05:14:40 PM

This thread makes me feel what non-gamers must feel when I talk to them about games.

"Me am play gods"
Samwise
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Reply #48 on: August 16, 2012, 05:30:51 PM

That's pretty much how I feel when I read about EVE, but this is much more accessible to me for whatever reason.  I think being web-based and not requiring any real-time commitment makes a huge difference.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
lamaros
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Reply #49 on: August 16, 2012, 05:33:24 PM

Why not take up writing a novel, or learning something? Passing the time? Have a cup of tea or something!


Expect poison from the standing water.
Samwise
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Reply #50 on: August 16, 2012, 05:42:23 PM

Why not take up writing a novel, or learning something? Passing the time? Have a cup of tea or something!

See, the beauty of web games is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Morat20
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Reply #51 on: August 16, 2012, 07:17:06 PM

I need melds anyways to be anything other than a trader or bum, so is it worth it to start mining "things" in the starter mine, or keep hacking at gold until I'm at least equipped with green mining gear?

And should I keep the yellows? I can use them at another mine, right?
Samwise
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Reply #52 on: August 16, 2012, 08:08:41 PM

I need melds anyways to be anything other than a trader or bum, so is it worth it to start mining "things" in the starter mine, or keep hacking at gold until I'm at least equipped with green mining gear?

My theory on this is that you can get the things for starter melds faster by mining gold and buying them than by mining them yourself.  For one thing, you won't waste time getting duplicate items, and for another, again, you can probably buy all those things for 1g each.

The music melds are also pretty cheap to buy in Alssa, and once you get a vehicle, it's not TOO expensive to buy yellow equipment in Franco and ship it home to Alssa to make those melds.

Quote
And should I keep the yellows? I can use them at another mine, right?

Or use them in melds, yeah.  But if you start trading or doing anything else where inventory space gets tight, you'll find quickly that if something in your inventory isn't making you money, you're better off selling it and buying another one later when you actually need it.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Ironwood
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Reply #53 on: August 17, 2012, 01:23:47 AM

Why not take up writing a novel, or learning something? Passing the time? Have a cup of tea or something!

See, the beauty of web games is that I can play them on my phone while I'm plowing your mom.

That's a keeper.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Samwise
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Reply #54 on: August 17, 2012, 10:02:41 AM

 awesome, for real

I've made the switch (for now) to Merchant and have sent my first couple of ships off into the great blue unknown.  Once I can see the city on the other side of the water (I think it's Massau?) I can start comparing market prices and figure out whether there's lots of money to be made shipping yellows between there and the mainland.  My hunch is that markups should be much higher than they are for ground shipping.

Unfortunately, since I've forsaken the Trader profession, all my land vehicles are now cooling their heels for at least a few days while I wait to see how this whole "water" thing pans out.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Morat20
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Reply #55 on: August 17, 2012, 06:57:24 PM

Just to be clear -- to even see the other cities names and markets, I have to pony up for a donkey or unicycle and send it off to "?", right? Don't even have to send goods? (And be a trader).
Samwise
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Reply #56 on: August 17, 2012, 07:15:05 PM

Correct.  If you're in a hurry, use a rickshaw, since that's the fastest yellow option.  Even those take a day or two to cross the continent.  For best results, get three and send one to each available destination so you can explore everything at once.

Once you've discovered Franco Thistle, you'll probably find you can buy vehicles a bit cheaper there (that's where the Vehicle mines are).

Looks like it's about 24 hours for a war canoe to get from Franco to Massua.  Tomorrow I'll be able to see if it's worth it to load up on exotic spices and return to the mainland.   DRILLING AND MANLINESS  Looks like there's huge demand for them in Alssa, and nobody selling in Franco.  If they're cheap in their city of origin, I see an opportunity there.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 07:26:48 PM by Samwise »

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Samwise
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Reply #57 on: August 18, 2012, 02:59:41 PM

Picked up a half a boatload of celery and mustard seed for 1g each in Massua.  Looks like they'll fetch at least 5g each in Franco, so I can expect to make about 50g off this trip.   DRILLING AND MANLINESS

I'll be pretty pissed the first time an asshole with a canoe full of cannons sinks one of my ships, but for now this seems like a sweet gig.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Xanthippe
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Reply #58 on: August 18, 2012, 07:26:38 PM

I sent a stagecoach down to the city that starts with a D (forgot the name) and it was attacked 3 times. Good thing it was empty!

I guess yellow stuff gets left alone more than green stuff?
Samwise
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Reply #59 on: August 18, 2012, 08:05:23 PM

I sent a stagecoach down to the city that starts with a D (forgot the name) and it was attacked 3 times. Good thing it was empty!

I guess yellow stuff gets left alone more than green stuff?

Eep!  Good to know, I haven't sent out any green+ vehicles yet, and I've been curious how much more dangerous it gets.

The way it works is that yellow can only target yellow, but anything else can target anything else.  So if you send out a stagecoach(green), there's nothing stopping someone with a tank(purple) from sending it out and having it target green traders so it can stomp them and take their lunch money.

From what I've read, the best defense is what they call "bubbling" -- you send out a big cluster of vehicles of the same type, and put your valuable cargo in the middle.  Any given highwayman vehicle can only attack one trader vehicle per trip (or maybe just one vehicle per trader?), so if he sends out five vehicles from Danchesser and you send ten from Franco, he's going to attack your first five and leave the last five unmolested.  If someone sends vehicles from Franco that are faster than yours, he can potentially catch you from behind, hence the bubble on both sides.

The thing that stops highwaymen from just sending out even MORE vehicles is the inventory limit -- each vehicle AND each weapon on board counts toward your inventory.  The highwayman needs to load all his vehicles up with weapons to make sure they win fights; you can leave your "bubble" vehicles empty since you don't particularly care if they lose.

Anyway, all this is why I'm sticking to trading yellows for a while; it's slower money, but it's much safer and requires very little initial investment.  Once I've got enough cash for a big fleet of vans I'll try my hand at moving the pricier stuff.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Morat20
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Reply #60 on: August 19, 2012, 07:53:40 AM

Heh, I just sent my first swarm of yellows. Most are unloaded -- got some exploring, but also got some bringing back stuff from the first city I found with a market. Not a whole lot -- didn't have much gold, but enough to get a feel for things.

First bonus to the web design -- switching cities doesn't change whatever you're looking at, so if you're looking at equipment prices in one city and switch to the other, it's still looking at equipment prices.

I was pricing additional mines -- am I correct in assuming that purchasing additional mines requires real cash, whereas renting them for two weeks can just be done with gold?
Samwise
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Reply #61 on: August 19, 2012, 10:48:02 AM

Inverse, I think.  Real money is "credits".  You can rent mines for credits, but not gold.  You can buy mines with credits OR gold.

Anything you buy with credits is materialized by the game; anything you buy with gold, you're buying from another player at whatever price the market currently supports.  So every mine in the game was originally purchased by someone with real money, and then they get exchanged around for game money (which ultimately is mostly produced by noobs like us with shitty starter mines).

My first load of mainland cargo has hit Massua (I loaded a canoe with all the crap I was trying to sell in Franco).  Market rate for bolts is 15g.  I have eight that I bought in Alssa for 1g each.  Hot damn.

(edit) Also, one of the M-80s that I bought for 10g in Danchesser sold for 28g within minutes of being listed.  There may be some direct Danchesser-Massua runs in my future.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 11:21:33 AM by Samwise »

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Xanthippe
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Reply #62 on: August 20, 2012, 05:00:20 PM

My first trader attempt with cargo:

Quote
Your Donkey has been defeated by another vehicle and lost the following things: Flimsy Light (trashed), Flimsy Light (trashed), Flimsy Light (trashed), Flimsy Light (trashed), Flimsy Light (trashed), Flimsy Light (trashed), Flimsy Light (trashed).
Samwise
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Reply #63 on: August 20, 2012, 05:03:54 PM

 ACK!

You must have a "rob me" sign on your back.  I've literally never been attacked.  (knock on wood)

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Xanthippe
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Reply #64 on: August 20, 2012, 05:21:44 PM

Maybe it was you!
Samwise
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Reply #65 on: August 20, 2012, 05:27:59 PM

Especially lame: if I'm reading that report right, you got robbed by a vehicle that didn't have enough room to actually steal any of your cargo, so it all just got trashed.  So it was just a pure griefer.  Or maybe the outer part of a bubble, meant to trip up lone guards.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Xanthippe
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Reply #66 on: August 20, 2012, 05:30:27 PM

Well, it's working to sap my desire to get back in there and try again.

So maybe next time I'll send a herd of donkeys!
Samwise
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Reply #67 on: August 20, 2012, 06:15:46 PM

Rickshaws are dirt cheap in Franco right now, and they're the fastest yellow vehicle -- so not only does stuff get where it's going a bit faster, but the only thing that can catch you to attack you is another rickshaw.

"Nice attempted blast about my "drinking".  I do enjoy a nice cuppa, but that is because I am a bon vivant of gregarious nature and cheery disposition." - Ab
Morat20
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Reply #68 on: August 20, 2012, 06:34:56 PM

I've got a fleet of rickshaws and donkeys moving. :)

I'm hoping to get into the vehicle business when I can afford another mine. And the ship business. :)

Need some melds before I can ply the ocean, though...
Morat20
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Reply #69 on: August 21, 2012, 05:12:31 PM

Dammit! It sold the items I was using! I had multiples, and someone bought my spares AND the drill I had equipped. WTF?
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