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Author Topic: WvW Thoughts  (Read 33794 times)
Nebu
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Reply #35 on: August 27, 2012, 09:22:37 AM

Played WvWvW for about 4h yesterday and ... I don't get the hype.  It's a homogenized DAoC with cartoonish graphics and a less complex tactical system.  I really wanted to love it but between the zergs crashing framerates and griefers using the resources, it provided as much annoyance as fun.  I don't see this as a major selling point of the game.  I'm a bit disappointed.

Now, the tournament pvp was quite fun.  Some very skilled groups out there.  Still trying to learn my class, but had a great time.  

All of this is odd as I'm much more of a world pvp guy than a sport pvp person...

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tazelbain
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Reply #36 on: August 27, 2012, 09:28:10 AM

You remember a completely different DAoC then I do.

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Nebu
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Reply #37 on: August 27, 2012, 09:30:03 AM

You remember a completely different DAoC then I do.

I did play it for over 5 years for a reason.  I also enjoyed WAR a great deal.  With a solid group, the pvp in both games was extremely fun.  GW2 forces you to run with the zerg more... and I'm not so keen on being a lemming.  

I find we're just killing people on the fringe for loot, marks, and xp.  It's moderately entertaining, but hardly incentive to fight for the team.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
tazelbain
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Reply #38 on: August 27, 2012, 09:34:50 AM

You guys choose a zerg server. Go to Fergeson's crossing no zerg there.  Plus supply camps and dolyoks are great for small groups and have a substantial effect on Map control.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 09:41:44 AM by tazelbain »

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Falconeer
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Reply #39 on: August 27, 2012, 09:39:51 AM

The game has been out ONE day. Do you really expect people out there to understand tactics, strategy, the metagame and all the other layers of complexity of such a game on day 1, with all the characters in the battlefield between level 5 to about 25?

I am not even saying the game is young and it will get better, I am saying the PLAYERS are young and eventually will get better and the absolute clueless noobs will stop crowding up the Borderlands queue.

I am getting the hype and having a blast in WvWvW (when I can get in) both by running with the zerg and trying to defend or capture big structures (it helps to understand the scoring mechanism and see your server score get better or worse in real time, assuming you care about winning the server war), and even more so by running with a group of 10-15 people capturing smaller objectives and stumbing on smaller enemy groups. I mean, sure there's a big zerg on every map, but there's LOTS of other places to capture and fight behind the enemy lines. It's easy to overlook all that in the first few days of playing. The "resurrection" mechanic is great to give players a sense of penetration deep into the core of the enemy territory and trying to have at least one alive player to hide before a wipe to keep the operation going. Sure you can get rolled by an unannounced tide of reds any minute, but in my experience so far if you go with the zerg it is pretty much your fault.

Also, guilds can claim keeps and have their flags and stuff on it like in DAoC, vendors, upgrades and all. That will add another layer as people will take that stuff very "personal".

I say give yourself some time to look beyond the launch days chaos. I would say that you are stuck somewhere in those golden DAoC memories that prevent you to have any PvP fun anymore but then you say you liked Warhammer and I go  ACK!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 09:44:47 AM by Falconeer »

KallDrexx
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Reply #40 on: August 27, 2012, 09:46:29 AM

You remember a completely different DAoC then I do.

I did play it for over 5 years for a reason.  I also enjoyed WAR a great deal.  With a solid group, the pvp in both games was extremely fun.  GW2 forces you to run with the zerg more... and I'm not so keen on being a lemming.  

I find we're just killing people on the fringe for loot, marks, and xp.  It's moderately entertaining, but hardly incentive to fight for the team.

Killing people one the fringe is extremely important.  Once people start realizing how to WvW they will be bringing supply with them, and cutting off people on the fringe and runners means less supply, which means less defense or offense on the zerg lines.
Nebu
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Reply #41 on: August 27, 2012, 09:48:00 AM

You guys choose a zerg server. Go to Fergeson's crossing no zerg there.  Plus supply camps and dolyoks are great for small groups and have a substantial effect on Map control.

We are actually considering just this (moving to another server).  I fear that all servers will be zerg servers for the first month or so until things sort themselves out.  The one nice thing is that I'm seeing some quality play from the servers that we're matched with.  I've learned a ton about playing my class by watching some enemies.  

I say give yourself some time to look beyond the launch days chaos. I would say that you are stuck somewhere in those golden DAoC memories that prevent you to have any PvP fun anymore but then you say you liked Warhammer and I go  ACK!

Solid point... and while I had fun in WAR, it was easy to spot the glaring flaws in the game.  On that comparison, I hope that GW2 does their PQ scaling better.  Some of the events could become a nightmare when the populations in the lower levels start to decline. Particularly the boss fights.

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Reply #42 on: August 27, 2012, 10:16:04 AM

Funny people yearn for massive battles but bemoan the roving zerg and beg for the chance to have squad based combat.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 11:01:25 AM by MediumHigh »

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Tmon
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Reply #43 on: August 27, 2012, 10:27:58 AM

I've played a bit of WvW since launch and have decided that ranged is the only way I can play.  I just don't have the reflexes and keyboard skills to contribute otherwise.  I'm fairly happy following the zerg and trying to pick off targets on the edge or tagging along with a small group out raiding supply points but I'll never be the guy who single handedly turns defeat into victory.  Given that, I'm going to use my Ranger in WvW more than my warrior.  I got him up to level 6 or so and unlocked the longbow fully and have some basic skills that seem useful in WvW so I'll try it out tonight.  Plus I have a bear which I remember is a fairly reasonable tank type pet, although except for a handy dump all your conditions on your pet skill I don't expect him to be much use in the zerg or during a keep/tower defense.
Segoris
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Reply #44 on: August 27, 2012, 10:28:58 AM

Doubtful they'd pay to transfer under that scenario though.  They could do it for free where they are.

Why transfer, just keep deleting and rolling a new character to grief with since your level and gear don't matter. You don't need to transfer when you can roll a new toon, go straight into WvW (dumb), force yourself into any squad you want (dumber) and sabotage gameplay resources just because your an asshole and want to (dumbest).


Sure, if it worked that way. It didn't in beta. I was auto-placed on a server and couldn't just delete all characters and pick a new server.

Anyone tried with the game now live?
kildorn
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Reply #45 on: August 27, 2012, 12:47:09 PM

Deleting all your characters does not let you change your home server, if that's the question.

Griefing the supply system is entirely possible, but would need a bunch of people (you can carry 5/10 supply, out of the 200-500 per keep) to keep ahead of the supply income.

The best grief method would probably be dropping improper siege blueprints, like a treb at a keep door.
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Reply #46 on: August 27, 2012, 01:04:36 PM

GW2 forces you to run with the zerg more...

#1 selliing point, as far as I'm concerned.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

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Amaron
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Reply #47 on: August 27, 2012, 01:52:18 PM

GW2 forces you to run with the zerg more... and I'm not so keen on being a lemming.  

I haven't done it enough but I noticed a distinct tendency for people to ignore objective stuff right now and just try to find fights.   One world I joined had a huge zerg and they controlled 95% of the map.   The other realms would just try to find advantageous spots to fight this zerg instead of splitting up and capturing stuff.

Perhaps it will improve after people figure out what they are doing.
Nebu
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Reply #48 on: August 27, 2012, 02:03:48 PM

Perhaps it will improve after people figure out what they are doing.

You have more faith in humanity than I do.

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Reply #49 on: August 27, 2012, 02:03:55 PM

The game has been out ONE day. Do you really expect people out there to understand tactics, strategy, the metagame and all the other layers of complexity of such a game on day 1, with all the characters in the battlefield between level 5 to about 25?

This is a good point and it is also worth noting that the official forums have been completely turned off for at least 2 days! Hard for servers to have any kind of internal cooperation without any means to communicate.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Outlawedprod
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Reply #50 on: August 27, 2012, 02:05:55 PM

The game has been out ONE day. Do you really expect people out there to understand
<snip>
I say give yourself some time to look beyond the launch days chaos. I would say that you are stuck somewhere in those golden DAoC memories that prevent you to have any PvP fun anymore but then you say you liked Warhammer and I go  ACK!

Anyone got Vegas odds on how many days before this subforum has a guild wars 2 failure/d0med thread?
Ingmar
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Reply #51 on: August 27, 2012, 02:06:29 PM

Depends when Lakov notices the forum.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Amaron
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Reply #52 on: August 27, 2012, 05:17:44 PM

You have more faith in humanity than I do.

Nah that's not it.  You don't want to fight the bads in the first place.  I'm just saying the smarter ones will eventually filter off to side objectives.
Spiff
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Reply #53 on: August 27, 2012, 07:10:35 PM

I've have been having some good fun in WvW and it still looks like something I'll be sticking with for a while, that said my major gripes:

- There's some definite skill-lag (not on my end, but from the server) at certain (mega-zerg) times, which is pretty annoying with combat this reactive and it makes melee even more situational than it already was.

- I'm starting to think the fact you can literally see every fight on the map from anywhere is a bad thing. It takes away a tactical layer, makes scouting almost superfluous and ensures the zerg will turn up before long.
Some of the keeps have some very clever designs, with backdoors and poorly guarded water-approaches, but what's the point if the second you start banging on a door a big sign is placed on top of you?

Maybe 0 signs of fighting on the map would feel a bit aimless, but the current system cheapens the game imo.

Very early for an in depth verdict though: the maps will eventually last 2 weeks (there has been some quick-switching for early balance). At first the fights might look a lot as they do now, but as time progresses people will start building up keeps: siege weaponry and the defense/set-up thereof will start to play a far more important role, alignments between the 2 'weaker' sides will get formed, there'll be backstabbing.
I see a lot of possibility for some depth in there.
Ingmar
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Reply #54 on: August 27, 2012, 07:11:47 PM

The nice thing is every melee character can carry a weapon swap to a ranged weapon and actually be GOOD with it, at least.

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Hawkbit
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Reply #55 on: August 27, 2012, 07:45:47 PM

Yep, the ability for my guard to swap from mace/shield to staff at the press of a button has turned the tides on both major PvE encounters and WvW to a smaller extent.  It's a really neat system.
KallDrexx
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Reply #56 on: August 27, 2012, 09:27:14 PM

Sigh fucking seriously.

Wait literally an hour to get into a WvW game, play for a half hour (went from 30-31.5 in no time, sweetness) and then the serves close for rematching and no one is able to queue from now.

annnd we don't even have the god damn launch only players yet.

fucking stupid.  Anet has the technology, they should be opening new battlegrounds based on queue numbers.  It's stupid.
ezrast
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Reply #57 on: August 27, 2012, 11:09:29 PM

I found a battleground that doesn't have a queue! This is the view from our spawn area:

Cool.  Ohhhhh, I see.
Evildrider
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Reply #58 on: August 28, 2012, 03:20:19 AM

I haven't been doing any WvW yet, but everytime I look at the scoreboard my server "Henge of Denravi" is always blowing it out.  It's crazy.
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Reply #59 on: August 28, 2012, 03:24:55 AM

I think Titan (one of the huge wvw alliances) rolled on Henge. The other "big" server is Northern Shiverpeaks (Ascension alliance)

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Reply #60 on: August 28, 2012, 03:59:35 AM

The SURPRISE NEW BUILD REBOOTING IN 3 MINUTES thing is really fucking annoying when you just got into WvW after 2 hours of waiting.

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Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Der Helm
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Reply #61 on: August 28, 2012, 04:06:42 AM

The SURPRISE NEW BUILD REBOOTING IN 3 MINUTES thing is really fucking annoying when you just got into WvW after 2 hours of waiting.
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Reply #62 on: August 28, 2012, 04:08:26 AM

It happened twice tonight, PLUS like 10 minutes after I got into Eternal another time, they re-matched servers and booted everyone out of WvW. /wrists

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Zetor
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Reply #63 on: August 28, 2012, 04:09:05 AM

Tarnished Coast doesn't seem to have queues. Of course being on the losing side of WvW tends to do that...

ffc
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Reply #64 on: August 28, 2012, 04:22:56 AM

Yep, the ability for my guard to swap from mace/shield to staff at the press of a button has turned the tides on both major PvE encounters and WvW to a smaller extent.  It's a really neat system.

In WvW, have you found the guardian's static abilities to be a hindrance and/or not used to their full potential? On mace, one of the attacks lays down a small circle which heals you and hurts enemies. Great in PvE but in PvP no enemy stands in it of course and if I want to get out of the way of some attacks then I'm leaving the circle too. I've also had allies actively avoid the staff run buff circle which makes me rage in a very special way.
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Reply #65 on: August 28, 2012, 06:38:08 AM

I haven't been doing any WvW yet, but everytime I look at the scoreboard my server "Henge of Denravi" is always blowing it out.  It's crazy.

Henge of Denravi has PRX which was one of the zerg guilds in Shadowbane that pretty much ruined an entire server(Treachery).  CND probably planned to dominate that server with them from the get go.  Imagine the goons but 100% of the players are focused on World PvP.  I'd move if I was on that server frankly.   Although it could get interesting when they finally get put up against the reddit/goon servers I guess.
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Reply #66 on: August 28, 2012, 08:30:08 AM

What servers did the goons pick? Also, I am sure their guild tag is [GOON] so they should be pretty recognizable. I hate that the guild tags are not unique across servers. Sure, with only 4 characters to choose from that would have been hellish if they were, but when all you can see of a guild is the tag, having multiple guilds with the same tag is pretty meh.

Simond
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Reply #67 on: August 28, 2012, 08:53:08 AM

Not all Goons are [GOON].  Ohhhhh, I see.

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tazelbain
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Reply #68 on: August 28, 2012, 09:07:20 AM

Many goons are running under Starfleet Dental [SFD] on Maguuma and Rouge Squadian in EU some where.

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murdoc
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Reply #69 on: August 28, 2012, 10:10:58 AM

What servers did the goons pick? Also, I am sure their guild tag is [GOON] so they should be pretty recognizable. I hate that the guild tags are not unique across servers. Sure, with only 4 characters to choose from that would have been hellish if they were, but when all you can see of a guild is the tag, having multiple guilds with the same tag is pretty meh.

Tags aren't even unique per SERVER - that is driving me nuts as three other guilds have the same tag as my friends and I. Granted, it wasn't an original tag, but if I had know it wasn't unique at all we would have gone with something different.

Have you tried the internet? It's made out of millions of people missing the point of everything and then getting angry about it
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