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Author Topic: Are you done? Why?  (Read 107037 times)
LK
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Reply #420 on: August 23, 2012, 11:08:31 AM

He needs to deliver his jokes in front of a camera and not in a letter.

Edit: I take things too seriously at times as well. This incident doesn't inspire humor.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 11:10:26 AM by Lorekeep »

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
Paelos
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Reply #421 on: August 23, 2012, 11:10:29 AM

He needs to deliver his jokes in front of a camera and not in a letter.

Notes for a good apology. Don't make jokes.

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Ingmar
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Reply #422 on: August 23, 2012, 11:11:46 AM

I'm also just kind of lost as to why we care so much about the Facebook thing. Human reacts to criticism with profanity, news at 11.

Ah well, back to your regularly-scheduled crucifixion I guess.

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Segoris
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Reply #423 on: August 23, 2012, 11:12:02 AM

Or make them so completely obvious that there is a joke that it is very unlikely to ever be thought of as anything but a joke, which this was not.
Paelos
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Reply #424 on: August 23, 2012, 11:14:06 AM

I'm also just kind of lost as to why we care so much about the Facebook thing. Human reacts to criticism with profanity, news at 11.

Ah well, back to your regularly-scheduled crucifixion I guess.

They probably don't follow sports, so they aren't as used to it as we are with the athlete/twitter hilarity.

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Lantyssa
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Reply #425 on: August 23, 2012, 11:50:58 AM

I'm also just kind of lost as to why we care so much about the Facebook thing. Human reacts to criticism with profanity, news at 11.
It's bad PR at a time when Blizzard doesn't need it.  Weird how Blizzard and Bioware are paralleling one another.

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Ratman_tf
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Reply #426 on: August 23, 2012, 12:41:16 PM

Yes.  I actually really, really want to hear Schild take on this.  He's been quite quiet about it and, frankly, the Zynga stuff I really wanna hear.


Shit's serious when Schild is quiet about a Diablo game.



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Rokal
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Reply #427 on: August 23, 2012, 12:55:22 PM

I'm also just kind of lost as to why we care so much about the Facebook thing. Human reacts to criticism with profanity, news at 11.

A mediocre game got polite and accurate feedback from the creator of the series, basically repeating what most of the community has been saying in a more diplomatic and respectful manor. The design director of said mediocre game reacted by saying "Fuck that loser". The rest of the developers involved in the post then patted themselves on the back for making the "fastest selling PC game ever", completely ignoring the fact that only reason the game sold so well on Day 1 is because of the previous games in the series that the quoted person was largely responsible for.

Not only is Jay Wilson responsible for fucking up the series fans loved, he spit in the creator's face when he gave the same feedback fans did. It wasn't really about Jay Wilson and David Brevik, it was about how the Diablo 3 team handled feedback and their continued failures to own up to their mistakes.

I liked the apology and that they claimed they still weren't satisfied with the game. 4.0.3 does a lot to fix the game, but it's still far from done for me (and I'm glad to hear for them as well).

I also appreciated the acknowledgement that the AH ruins the pace of the game for "some" players, but I really don't think it's something they are willing to fix. It was still nice to hear them at least acknowledge that it was a problem.

I like the patch but I think I'm "done" again. I want to see if they can fix the 1-59 experience and implement the manual difficulty tweaking they talked about before I invest more time in the game. Inferno/lvl 60 content now has a carrot that didn't really exist for me prior to 4.0.3, but it's still not really where my interest lies in the series. It they can make 1-59 play like Hell (optionally) throughout, and I can actually find items to use that are at-level without using the AH, I'll be interested in playing again.
Ironwood
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Reply #428 on: August 23, 2012, 01:14:10 PM

Nicely said.


"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Paelos
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Reply #429 on: August 23, 2012, 01:21:13 PM

Alternatively, he made an unprofessional kneejerk reaction to comments from a prior creator who probably has to pull the recent plank out of his eye.

Both guys would have been better off saying nothing. I thought neither was very professional (ie - critiquing your replacement or responding to critiques on facebook).

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Ironwood
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Reply #430 on: August 23, 2012, 01:24:04 PM

It's fun watching you pair switch roles.

No, not fun.  That other one...

(Also, bonus points to Paelos for the Slog impression.  Good Stuff.)

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Paelos
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Reply #431 on: August 23, 2012, 01:30:12 PM

Don't get me wrong, he absolutely should have apologized for his comment. Frankly, if I was running Blizzard I would have already fired him by now to make an example to future employees. Letting him get away with this with a simple written apology doesn't solve the problem that he wasn't the only employee popping off in a very public fashion. It shows a lack of control over your people if the head guy is the one stirring the pot instead of putting out fires.

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Ironwood
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Reply #432 on: August 23, 2012, 01:33:22 PM

I get it.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Llyse
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Reply #433 on: August 23, 2012, 05:54:35 PM

Alternatively, he made an unprofessional kneejerk reaction to comments from a prior creator who probably has to pull the recent plank out of his eye.

Both guys would have been better off saying nothing. I thought neither was very professional (ie - critiquing your replacement or responding to critiques on facebook).

I think polite, objective criticism of your predecessor is fine. I'll only reinstall to join my friend in killing Inferno Diablo.
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Reply #434 on: August 23, 2012, 07:19:17 PM

I think polite, objective criticism of your predecessor is fine.

I think it's fine if you're internally asked to evaluate the project, or if you're asked by someone with a hand in the job. I think it's unprofessional to do that in the press. Nothing good can come from you publicly armchair QBing the guy doing the job you didn't get.

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Megrim
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Reply #435 on: August 23, 2012, 07:28:18 PM

See, that's horseshit. He was asked what he thought of the project, and he gave an honest and courteous answer. The initial response by the Blizzard guy was a fire-able offence. End of story. Wringing it out to mean "he had is coming" is wank. Let alone then spending two pages squirting out pr boilerplate slash self-congratulatory advertising.

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Paelos
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Reply #436 on: August 23, 2012, 07:36:15 PM

See, that's horseshit. He was asked what he thought of the project, and he gave an honest and courteous answer. The initial response by the Blizzard guy was a fire-able offence. End of story. Wringing it out to mean "he had is coming" is wank. Let alone then spending two pages squirting out pr boilerplate slash self-congratulatory advertising.

Did I say he had it coming? No.

Take note of something if you ever happen to find yourself in this position. When the press asks to evaluate a former employer who is under fire, you're not required to comment, and you simply don't. It's never going to make you look better, and it's only going to add fuel to the fire. It's not his job to analyze how the job was done, or the development team in question. It's his job to make another game entirely and answer questions about that.

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Megrim
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Reply #437 on: August 23, 2012, 07:40:40 PM

See, that's horseshit. He was asked what he thought of the project, and he gave an honest and courteous answer. The initial response by the Blizzard guy was a fire-able offence. End of story. Wringing it out to mean "he had is coming" is wank. Let alone then spending two pages squirting out pr boilerplate slash self-congratulatory advertising.

Did I say he had it coming? No.

Take note of something if you ever happen to find yourself in this position. When the press asks to evaluate a former employer who is under fire, you're not required to comment, and you simply don't. It's never going to make you look better, and it's only going to add fuel to the fire. It's not his job to analyze how the job was done, or the development team in question. It's his job to make another game entirely and answer questions about that.

You implied it by saying that he shouldn't comment, and that the response was thus justified.

Insofar as bland non-statements versus honesty, you'll find that we disagree on this. Though I'm sure I will disregard your, advice, once I'm e-famous

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Paelos
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Reply #438 on: August 23, 2012, 07:49:20 PM

"I am also a little happy... I hate to say, [but] it shows that the people that were involved in Diablo really did matter, and so I am happy that it has come to light that how talented that group was, how unique and special... when the people leave the game changes, and it shows how critical people are in this industry."

That's his mild quote. I don't think you have to read between the lines to see he's taking a shot there. He's a little happy they fucked up because it proves how great his team actually was.

You just don't say publically that you're happy when other people are "failing" because it shows how smart you were.

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Megrim
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Reply #439 on: August 23, 2012, 08:02:09 PM

Ok fair enough. But that still does not excuse the response. I mean, I literally did a double-take when I read it. If it does cut so close to the bone, you act magnanimous, not sperg out like a underdeveloped manchild.

One must bow to offer aid to a fallen man - The Tao of Shinsei.
Rokal
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Reply #440 on: August 23, 2012, 08:49:09 PM

Nothing good can come from you publicly armchair QBing the guy doing the job you didn't get.

He got some free press for his Marvel ARPG and probably earned brownie points with anyone who bought D3 and was disappointed. I doubt he has anything to regret.
Llyse
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Reply #441 on: August 23, 2012, 08:52:29 PM

"I am also a little happy... I hate to say, [but] it shows that the people that were involved in Diablo really did matter, and so I am happy that it has come to light that how talented that group was, how unique and special... when the people leave the game changes, and it shows how critical people are in this industry."

That's his mild quote. I don't think you have to read between the lines to see he's taking a shot there. He's a little happy they fucked up because it proves how great his team actually was.

You just don't say publically that you're happy when other people are "failing" because it shows how smart you were.

Yeah, that was a little jab to the ribs and is a touch unprofessional. It didn't warrant the response though.
Ashamanchill
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Reply #442 on: August 23, 2012, 09:18:34 PM

It's fun watching you pair switch roles.

No, not fun.  That other one...

I think it's fucking awesome. I'm hoping they roll a D20 and look up the DM table to find out where their views lay on the next Starcraft expansion.

Actually, I am beginning to suspect that Paelos and Rokal aren't actually real at all, that they are just two polar opposite personas fabricated by our brains, and we are all experiencing the exact same hallucination of them together.

Think about it...

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Soulflame
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Reply #443 on: August 23, 2012, 11:46:47 PM

I like the patch for what it's done, but I do hope they can address loot at some point.  I found a 1h xbow with over 1000 damage on it in Inferno act 1, so I have some hope that I can eventually upgrade the weapon for my wizard.

I put up a few decentish items on the AH for 3x the vendor value, only one item had a bid placed on it.  Not too surprising, if I'm pulling down decent loot just playing around for a bit in Act 1, the loot available on the AH is probably much better.

One thing I noticed tonight which is nice is there's a visible snare effect on mobs for the arcane passive snare.  I hadn't seen that before, so I think it may have been added in the latest patch.
Margalis
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Reply #444 on: August 24, 2012, 12:38:31 AM

"I am also a little happy... I hate to say, [but] it shows that the people that were involved in Diablo really did matter, and so I am happy that it has come to light that how talented that group was, how unique and special... when the people leave the game changes, and it shows how critical people are in this industry."

That's his mild quote. I don't think you have to read between the lines to see he's taking a shot there. He's a little happy they fucked up because it proves how great his team actually was.

People in the games industry are treated as almost entirely disposable. The point that getting rid of a bunch of people impacted the game, including in some ways that were negative, was put about as mildly as it can be put.

There's really no way to say "people matter" without implying that some people are better than others. I mean FFS he said "the game changes" not "the game is garbage."

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Paelos
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Reply #445 on: August 24, 2012, 06:30:31 AM

Actually, I am beginning to suspect that Paelos and Rokal aren't actually real at all, that they are just two polar opposite personas fabricated by our brains, and we are all experiencing the exact same hallucination of them together.

 headache

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Lantyssa
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Reply #446 on: August 24, 2012, 07:19:54 AM

At the very least I think they're displaying quantum entanglement in the way they always oppose one another.

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Khaldun
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Reply #447 on: August 25, 2012, 04:41:32 AM

The thing that still puzzles me about the whole thing is how long the game took to make. What were they doing the whole time? It feels so ill-considered in many respects.
Soulflame
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Reply #448 on: August 25, 2012, 06:29:29 AM

They were probably playing Torchlight.
LK
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Reply #449 on: August 25, 2012, 08:46:49 AM

The thing that still puzzles me about the whole thing is how long the game took to make. What were they doing the whole time? It feels so ill-considered in many respects.


 Ohhhhh, I see.

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
Ironwood
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Reply #450 on: August 25, 2012, 08:51:02 AM

It's a fair point.

Usually Blizzard takes time because they get it right and polished.

This one's wank.  So naturally the question arises.

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Pennilenko
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Reply #451 on: August 25, 2012, 08:51:52 AM

Well, my assumption on the long development time is that each time they had a working game they play tested it and each time they discovered it was not the "right" type of fun they scrapped it and started over. Since Jay Wilson is the only man on the planet who knows how people should have fun, they ended up with many scrapped game versions.  Ohhhhh, I see.

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LK
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Reply #452 on: August 25, 2012, 08:57:22 AM

Many, many, many scrapped game versions. Scrapped game features that development time was invested in to. Also, back-end infrastructure was likely a nightmare to develop and implement, and the timing had to be just right, and, and...

Edit: Blizzard didn't get *all* of it right. And they don't have the luxury to launch multiple versions of a game and have the improvements show up in sequels. For example, the difference between Assassin's Creed and Assassin's Creed 2. The core of AC was good, but it didn't shine until 2. Player feedback on a live product is invaluable.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 08:59:32 AM by Lorekeep »

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Kail
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Reply #453 on: August 25, 2012, 09:23:42 AM

Edit: Blizzard didn't get *all* of it right. And they don't have the luxury to launch multiple versions of a game and have the improvements show up in sequels. For example, the difference between Assassin's Creed and Assassin's Creed 2. The core of AC was good, but it didn't shine until 2. Player feedback on a live product is invaluable.

Was Blizzard ignoring feedback from Diablo and Diablo 2, then?  I'm not seeing why feedback from Assassin's Creed influences AC2, but Diablo 3 must stand alone.
LK
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Reply #454 on: August 25, 2012, 09:42:04 AM

<Removed>

Probably best I leave you to your speculation.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2012, 10:10:38 AM by Lorekeep »

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
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