June 8th beta weekend

[Amaron]

It's okay to not feel directed in a game all the time. 

I've no problem with it being open ended or whatever.   That's great for explorers.   My explorer stat is trumped by my power gamer stat though so if they want me to explore they better just give me a damn button to press for XP while I'm doing it.

[Maledict]

Just go to the hearts and participate in events as you come across them?

I do think they could be better at telling people that,  but you will always have hearts on the map to visit, and that's how you level up. They are basically small quest hubs, with the random events providing the meat and gravy of the meal.

What's your issue with the class system BTW?

[Modern Angel]

If you 100% a zone exploration, you get a significant chunk of xp and a chest.

I just don't know, though, dude. I'm sympathetic to the "I don't understand" to a point. I've even submitted extensive feedback to the effect that it needs to start out handholding people pretty hardcore, since a lot of MMO assumptions are turned on their head. But I'm starting to run out of patience for that. It makes me fucking *sad* when people basically say, "I miss my kill 20 boars quests with big exclamation points." Really fucking depressed.

[Ingmar]

If you 100% a zone exploration, you get a significant chunk of xp and a chest.

I just don't know, though, dude. I'm sympathetic to the "I don't understand" to a point. I've even submitted extensive feedback to the effect that it needs to start out handholding people pretty hardcore, since a lot of MMO assumptions are turned on their head. But I'm starting to run out of patience for that. It makes me fucking *sad* when people basically say, "I miss my kill 20 boars quests with big exclamation points." Really fucking depressed.

Perhaps you need to spend less time worrying about how other people have fun.

[Modern Angel]

nah

[Amaron]

It makes me fucking *sad* when people basically say, "I miss my kill 20 boars quests with big exclamation points." Really fucking depressed.

That's not the problem for me.  I definitely enjoyed the whole dynamic event idea in RIFT.    Here it feels extremely lackluster.    The hearts though (which are not dynamic right?) feel like something even worse than quest grind.

[Modern Angel]

Make sure you talk to the guy who is the heart. Some of them have added events/spice over the normal go and do things dynamic. But, again, that's not really the meat of the game.

For instance, I *finally* got to do the swamp monster in the swamps in the human lands. It's an epic event which cranks up involving portals to the Underworld spilling monsters, culminating in a GIANT (I can't emphasis that word enough) spectre spawning from the swamps to be fought by a large group of people.

Now, the boss could have been beefed up a bit* but it was fucking awesome. And with the better messaging from the combo fields, the tactics really shined. He was huge and everyone there was freaking out because it was at the end of this big lead up and he had awesome graphics and sounds effects....

I've found most people have had a moment, not necessarily immediately, where they go, "Ohhhhhhhhh, yeah, this is rad." I had a friend who was bitching at me about how dumb the game was for a solid afternoon until, out of the blue, after hours of this, he said he understood and loved it. And maybe it never comes; I'll totally grant this won't be for everyone (my bitching is mostly reserved for people going DUUURRR I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS GAME DURRRR). I worry about the achievers in those middle levels where the only thing to do is play the game while getting very lateral power increases. But hang on and see if that moment comes where you suddenly go "THIS is what I want my MMO to be".



*This weirdly stands in direct contrast to most of the big bosses, who are slightly to severely overtuned. I'm looking at you, giant in Nagelberg or whatever it's called just north of The Wall.

[Amaron]

I can figure out the game.  It's retarded that the game is fucking ass boring till you figure it out but whatever.   This isn't my first MMO.   My confusions right now:

1)  Events giving me ass XP.
2)  WvWvW giving me ass XP.
3)  Events only giving me money?  WTF how do I get phat lewts? 
4)  Why is there not a big fucking "Join Group" button ala RIFT?
5)  How do you dodge when there's nothing apparent to dodge?

The amount of time it took to get to just level 3 doesn't make any sense.   I can get all my weapon abilities instantly but I'm supposed to grind for hours and hours before I get my first class ability?

[Evildrider]

I understand what they are trying to do, but this game isn't grabbing me at all.  I played for 3 hours today with my buddy, who is constantly pestering me to play, and it came down to the fact that I'd rather go play swtor and do pvp.

I really think it's a world thing more then anything else.  I am going to dub it Rift syndrome.

[Crumbs]

Tried WvWvW for the first time.  Had trouble finding battles.  I saw single people running around, and one of them went with me to a place on the map that showed "under attack."  Nothing there. 

The quest events and pve are really fun but I haven't had the "aha" moment with pvp yet.

[kildorn]

There's no join group button because there's no reason to have one. XP isn't divided, it's just handed out to anyone who tags things. There's no group buffs or heals, it just happens to people near the target. In WvW, there IS a join group button on commanders where you are added to their chat channel however.

I can understand the lack of direction (though I'm fuzzy on the events giving low XP. It takes a few events to level? A mob kill for example is 8 xp, and the event they're involved in is ~650. Hell, fully exploring Divinity's Reach is about a level of solid discovery xp.

I'm not that fond of the new utility tiering system, just because I think they tiered things completely randomly and it has nothing to do with complexity or learning curve at all.

I do find dodging to be 90% useless, though. A lot of mobs will do wind ups you need to dodge out of (and are very obvious about it), but since you only have the endurance to dodge twice you're pretty much going to eat most attacks. Also, the level difference modifier on damage is WAY too high. A +2 mob will pretty much two shot your ass.

[Bann]

As an engineer with Rifle, I find dodge to be insanely useful. I find that I can kite just about any mob in the game by using netshot and my knockback with dodge to keep distance permanently. Look at dodge as 2 of your "outs" to avoid an attack. I think most classes have a disable, knockdown, interrupt, or other kind of escape. You should be able to weave dodges into whatever other tricks your class has to avoid a whole lot of whatever a monster is going to throw at you.

[LK]

Could someone invite me to the guild? Lorekeep.7248.

I love the Engineer with the rifle for single mobs, but zergs need pistols with their AOE hits... however Engineer has an advantage in weapon kits allowing far more utility.

[Amaron]

I can understand the lack of direction (though I'm fuzzy on the events giving low XP. It takes a few events to level?

Closer to like 6 events to level at level THREE.   I understand that they are pursuing the idea that levels shouldn't take longer later on.   With 80 levels though they need to be flying by.    I switched to elementalist though and it's far far far better.   I'm confused as to why elementalists get like a bazillion "weapon" abilities to play with and rangers only get 5 but whatever.

[tmp]

It's okay to not feel directed in a game all the time.  It's a really organic experience and in my opinion the future of online RPGs.

Hopefully not; entire industry simply switching the model from WoW approach to another one just means a different playerbase subset gets their itch scratched, and everyone keeps bitching about these games all playing the same.

[Modern Angel]

I'm not seeing the six events at to level at level 3 at all. Like, AT ALL.

There's also a big button which says dodge on it. Or double tap. See, this is where I start getting frustrated, because the information is way more there than it was in the previous BWE and it's getting better all the time. To dodge: DODGE BUTTON. Or map it. Then there's a flashing tutorial hint message which says double tap to dodge. At some point, if not knowing how to dodge is ruining the game, some of that has to be on the player.

[Amaron]

I'm not seeing the six events at to level at level 3 at all. Like, AT ALL.

There's also a big button which says dodge on it. Or double tap. See, this is where I start getting frustrated, because the information is way more there than it was in the previous BWE and it's getting better all the time. To dodge: DODGE BUTTON.

You misread.  I was talking about there being nothing to dodge really so far.   My age at level 3 with my second char was 3 hours.   Call that whatever you want but it's too long.   You're just fanboing hardcore at this point.   The slow xp was turning off a lot of people in general chat.   It's a legitimate complaint.   Maybe it gets better later somehow but for the first 5 levels it's too long.

[Abelian75]

The camera and movement in this game is pretty damn terrible.  Fixably so, since some idiot put actual time and effort into adding features that make the game worse.  Why the fuck does the camera move in toward my character when I turn the camera while running, for instance?  Whatever clever shit you think you're doing, camera and controls guy, stop it.

[Modern Angel]

Camera's garbage and they need to go ahead and turn on the ability to zoom the fuck out, because the default is WAY too close. I think we did camera once. And also no option to turn off camera snapping.

[Hawkbit]

You misread.  I was talking about there being nothing to dodge really so far.   My age at level 3 with my second char was 3 hours.   Call that whatever you want but it's too long.   You're just fanboing hardcore at this point.   The slow xp was turning off a lot of people in general chat.   It's a legitimate complaint.   Maybe it gets better later somehow but for the first 5 levels it's too long.

He might be a fan, but you've an axe to grind over this game for some reason.  If lvl 3 took you 3 hours, then you are the problem, not the game.

[Furiously]

Camera's garbage and they need to go ahead and turn on the ability to zoom the fuck out, because the default is WAY too close. I think we did camera once. And also no option to turn off camera snapping.

I'm guessing a lot of the limitations are for sieges weapon usage.

[kildorn]

I can understand the lack of direction (though I'm fuzzy on the events giving low XP. It takes a few events to level?

Closer to like 6 events to level at level THREE.   I understand that they are pursuing the idea that levels shouldn't take longer later on.   With 80 levels though they need to be flying by.    I switched to elementalist though and it's far far far better.   I'm confused as to why elementalists get like a bazillion "weapon" abilities to play with and rangers only get 5 but whatever.

It usually only takes me the farm, the skales, the dam, and the orchard to do 3-4. Not counting any event pops.

As for the weapons: for whatever reason they lock the logic away at level 7. Elementalists get 4 weapon "sets" via attunement. Everyone else gets to have a hot-swap button with no cooldown that lets you use two weapon sets at a time. This means while an elementalist who goes dagger/dagger has limited range during an encounter, a mesmer who is sword/sword can instantly switch to staff if the fight turns into a ranged encounter. Rangers are intended to use something short range and something long range (ranger melee is really REALLY good, and I do think the bow skills are boring atm)

[EWSpider]

I can understand the lack of direction (though I'm fuzzy on the events giving low XP. It takes a few events to level?

Closer to like 6 events to level at level THREE.   I understand that they are pursuing the idea that levels shouldn't take longer later on.   With 80 levels though they need to be flying by.    I switched to elementalist though and it's far far far better.   I'm confused as to why elementalists get like a bazillion "weapon" abilities to play with and rangers only get 5 but whatever.

Did you make a Norn by chance?  I noticed my second toon, which was a Norn, felt like it took a lot longer to get going than my first Human character.

[Dark_MadMax]

Tried WvWvW for the first time.  Had trouble finding battles.  I saw single people running around, and one of them went with me to a place on the map that showed "under attack."  Nothing there. 

The quest events and pve are really fun but I haven't had the "aha" moment with pvp yet.

 I found that on most servers www is dead,   I was actually lucky to find one with huge ass epic battle raging whole day.

 It was pretty fun but there are many things which needs major fixing:

- there is no tools for coordination whatsoever. So  its all big clusterfucking zerg running around. you cant even tell where your allies are , unless you are with them already. The only hint is the crossed swords, but that doesnt help to do anyting but mass for zerg
- taking gates take crapload of time (and thats with siege equipment). Amount of time spent staring at gate HP is insane. Might as well call it "Gate Wars"
- melee has no place in www. get a ranged weapon or get out. Though it seems every(?) class has at least one
- towers have only one entrance. You cant help or reinforce defence if its already sieged
- its kinda huge money sink. well maybe not on later levels but  i ended up with not enough copper to afford travel, let alone training. I came in as level 7 with 20 silver. Got out as lvl 15 with 8 coppers and broken armor.

[Zetor]

Re dodging - a lot of times you don't even need to use the actual dodge ability to avoid big_nasty_telegraphed_attack_01; their animations are so long you can simply do a quick 90 with your mouse and run forward to avoid it. Strafing can also work, but strafe speed is slower than forward running speed. Backpedaling is a bad idea if you're trying to run away from something... just as in any other mmo, really!

There've been a lot of little improvements like the hearts that pop up when someone uses your field to create a combo, and being able to finally deposit all craft-related loot to the shared bank... those tiny totems and stuff were driving my crazy before. My beef is mostly with tuning: f'rex a group of level 15 ice elementals wandered over from a high-level area, attacked a level 9 outpost once and basically cleared it out, then camped the waypoint. The combats in the personal storyline are also wildly uneven - the one in the norn story where you become a wolf to fight a boss was freaking tedious.

PVP is still a strong point. I had a 3-hour wvw session yesterday that was really intense and fun with several back-and-forths over enemy keeps, attacking and defending, zerging and small-group fighting. I never played daoc, so this kind of thing is still pretty new to me. Structured pvp is still good, and has none of the fucking stupid gear-related issues of other games (why hello there, new 85 with 0 resilience! How would you like to get 2-shot today?). Anyway, I still really like this game; it's more fun in beta than swtor ever was after launch (opinions! oh noes!).

[kildorn]

What drove me nuts today was animation locking on some chain attacks (the melee chains mostly on the ranger) which attack so fast you need to use the auto cast for them, but also root you in place a lot and keep you from dodging (and the last attack in the chain has a leap to target built into it, so you run out of the wind up attack and leap right back into it)

[Phred]

I tried playing it a couple times so far this weekend.   Huge let down.   I don't know if it's the lack of quests or what but I feel completely aimless on how to level.   I liked leveling via rift events in RIFT though so I feel like something else is missing here.   

The class system is a pretty big let down too.   I guess my only real beef there though is that pure class rangers suck in guild wars.

Ya rangers sucked in EQ1 too. Oddly that doesn't seem to be the case in GW2 though.

[Numtini]

Maybe it's that I am trying different classes and everyone else is higher level or it's the server I moved to or maybe it's the additional servers or maybe people aren't playing as much, but the world seems very empty. Not 75% of last time or 50% of last time, but as in deserted and I rarely see anyone else.

That means fewer people are triggering events and when I trigger the event, it's solo. And frankly, it's not nearly as much fun or really fun at all. The events do scale and I'm able to complete them, so one point over War, but doing it alone, it seemed very generic and dull. 11111121111112111112111112

[Kageru]

Re dodging - a lot of times you don't even need to use the actual dodge ability to avoid big_nasty_telegraphed_attack_01; their animations are so long you can simply do a quick 90 with your mouse and run forward to avoid it. Strafing can also work, but strafe speed is slower than forward running speed. Backpedaling is a bad idea if you're trying to run away from something... just as in any other mmo, really!

There've been a lot of little improvements like the hearts that pop up when someone uses your field to create a combo, and being able to finally deposit all craft-related loot to the shared bank... those tiny totems and stuff were driving my crazy before. My beef is mostly with tuning: f'rex a group of level 15 ice elementals wandered over from a high-level area, attacked a level 9 outpost once and basically cleared it out, then camped the waypoint. The combats in the personal storyline are also wildly uneven - the one in the norn story where you become a wolf to fight a boss was freaking tedious.

I think I saw that... the second part of the first norn zone? The ice elementals are summoned by an event, and you need to kill 3 shaman to end it, but the ice elementals stick around, spawn in too large a number and then proceed to kill the NPC's in the building. Died a couple of times when I got close myself because they chain aggro.

I saw the little tan hearts, they were combo usage? I had no idea what they were since they showed up when things were hectic. Noticed also they extended the range of crafting items you can bank and am forever thankful. They could also do with a button that does it for all of them at once though. Likewise achievement chests showing up directly on your screen was golden, I assume I missed some last session.

Pretty much confirmed Norn Guardian, Human rifle warrior and Sylvari necromancer (though the class still doesn't feel very coherent to me) as what I'll be playing come live so quite happy to pretty much stop and wait at this point.

[Threash]

Man, some classes get royally shafted on their class abilities.  Steal blows, rangers get a damn pet bar, while elementalists and mesmers rock.  Warriors at least do some good burst and I haven't tried necros yet.  Thieves overall are extremely underwhelming, stealth might as well not exist and their damage is pathetic.

[Numtini]

I tried a necro and felt they were really underwhelming both in feel and in power.

The elementalist was great, but the costume is just one step too far for me and goes into offensive.

[Lantyssa]

The class system is a pretty big let down too.   I guess my only real beef there though is that pure class rangers suck in guild wars.

In GW2 Rangers have some really fun weapon skills, and with some levels are a blast to play.

[Kageru]

Man, some classes get royally shafted on their class abilities.  Steal blows, rangers get a damn pet bar, while elementalists and mesmers rock.  Warriors at least do some good burst and I haven't tried necros yet.  Thieves overall are extremely underwhelming, stealth might as well not exist and their damage is pathetic.

Necro's class mechanic is the ability to absorb life-force (green globes) from player death and change into an alternate form with new skills and a new health bar. It's currently more or less killing the class because the builds that focus only on boosting that mechanic are dominant and a lot of other interesting abilities need to be toned down in light of how powerful it is. Though that's also partly because pets are supposedly a bit AI bugged atm.

Steal does blow. The guardian gets three built in sigils which works okay and looks cool.

I would be very surprised if the thief and necro mechanics are not substantially re-worked before launch.

[kildorn]

The necro mechanic is so strong because you can pop it at 1% life and have a nearly full second health bar for people to have to run through. And by the time you pop out of it your cooldowns are ready again.

It's hilarious how crazy hard to kill a dagger necro is.

[Modern Angel]

I'm necro for life. Love the class and heavy condition damage builds in PvP are hilarious.