June 8th beta weekend

[Threash]

Mesmer, thief, ranger and engineer.  All of them for several hours in battlegrounds.  I used the clones mostly as misdirection.

[Draegan]

The Ranger is the most damaging class out of all of those if you use a greatsword or sword/dagger.  I'm surprised you didn't enjoy playing one.  Maybe you didn't stumble upon a good ranger build.  Thief is crazy good against cloth classes too.

[Threash]

Oh ranger was fun i just thought the mesmer was more effective.  It might have been that my ranger builds sucked or that the level of competition in the battlegrounds made the illusions a lot more effective than they should be, but i did pretty damn well and had a ton of fun with the mesmer.

[Modern Angel]

I went longbow with my ranger and, once you tack on the extra range from going Marksmanship, you're like an easily ignored battering ram. The range is so long, and the damage greater the further away you are, that I was wrecking shit without being touched. I loaded up on spirits and healing spring with my skills. Ended up being awesome.

Also, mesmers are fucking insane in PvP.

[Dark_MadMax]

Class wise I tried Ranger, Warrior and Thief in sPvP. And  a lot of thief in WvWvW. Warrior was probably most  OP thing in bwe2 with evicserate focused build (10k damages every 8 seconds).  Thief has very fun kit but very up UP even with either of his 2 semi-viable build (crit stabber and condition focused bleeder) .Ranger was kind okish,  I think he is better in www than in spvp

Think about www is that you pretty much using ranged only weapons and warrior has pretty strong single target rifle skills. But his aoe is lacking. Thief imho has better option despite having really only one skill  (shortbow clustershot)


Really though all those class balance things will probably change ten times over by the time of release. The most worry for me in the balance department is melee/range issue. In sPvP its ok. but in pve and www melee is just a useless gimmick, which is really dissapointing if you like playing melee

[Modern Angel]

Thing is, I think the game NOW is comparable (maybe even a little better) than what we generally expect with a MMO release. Which shouldn't be read as anything but an indictment of the MMO industry. But, given that, they've got a ton of time to do the class balance thing before release.

[Kageru]

At this point, as an MMO fan, having a game that isn't an obvious clone or flawed by design is enough of a novelty :(

[Phred]

Mesmer, thief, ranger and engineer.  All of them for several hours in battlegrounds.  I used the clones mostly as misdirection.

Ya sadly npc mobs seem to ignore the clones so the misdirection is of little use for pve. I played one all day sunday and found the skills to be very blah. Even spamming clones and exploding them with the wand 1 move didn't produce much dps compared to my ranger who does serious damage. If you thought the mesmer was better than a ranger I think you missed a lot of the ranger features. A ranger with a longbow is pretty much a murder machine.

[Kageru]

Pretty much how I found it. I think the mesmer and the necromancer are supposed to play off the conditions system but it just doesn't feel powerful, coherent or that much fun IMO.

[Sky]

Ya sadly npc mobs seem to ignore the clones so the misdirection is of little use for pve.

Didn't really find that to be true, though I did only get to level 8. I mostly used sword/pistol, swapping to sceptre/pistol for ranged and to get the block ability. I would send in sword3 clone to open, send in pistol4 clone on a second target, then pistol5 on everyone. Then I'd sword3 again to blink into melee and position so sword2 hacked at everyone. Then just watch to re-apply the sword3 and pistol4 clones, and sword1/2 as needed, also watch for opportunities to f1-3 my clones. Pretty basic but really tore stuff up pretty good in pve. Only thing I missed was the thief ability (pistol, maybe) to duck back to gain range, they could add that to pistol4 so it behaved liked sword3 (swap places as a secondary effect).

[kildorn]

Mobs don't ignore clones as much as the clones tend to not stand in melee range and try to be the bigger target. Proximity is threat for most mobs (some don't care and will "stick" to a target they pick early on).

My main issue with the clones and shatters is that this beta illusions were mostly dealing 0 damage (aside from the bugged duelist), and shatter was still buggy (clones would rush in and seemingly cast a short spell to detonate. During the cast, things would move out of the way)

[Sky]

Yeah, I did notice that and mostly didn't use it because of that.

[Zetor]

FWIW in the previous beta the mesmer boss in the charr ash questline (saboteur ducco) was a royal pain to take down because both of my NPC helpers would just focus on his illusions.

Mesmers in general are a massive pita to fight in pvp, up there with thieves. Extra fun points if you get them down and want to land a finisher on them.  

[Draegan]

I have to take back what I said about Mesmers.  Apparently folks found a sweet spot in a build that makes it really good.  However that's only one build though.  Essentially a condition build that gives you near perma regen and bleeds based off of the pistol phantasm.  I'll have to try it out next go around.

[kildorn]

Don't use pistol phantasm builds from this BWE as anything more than a theme idea: there was a broken trait giving them over 100% haste and turning the phantasm into the highest damage skill around.

There are some really strong degen builds for mesmers though, they're pretty damned awesome. Every non duelist build this weekend sucked because they broke illusions for the weekend.

[Sky]

Probably my fault!  

Also, as a reminder, I'm never talking about pvp unless I specifically mention it. Because I don't like math in my gaming :) When I say effective, I usually mean 'fun' not 'faceroll', though the two aren't mutually exclusive.

[Evildrider]

Probably my fault!  

Also, as a reminder, I'm never talking about pvp unless I specifically mention it. Because I don't like math in my gaming :) When I say effective, I usually mean 'fun' not 'faceroll', though the two aren't mutually exclusive.

As a person who mainly PvP's I do the same thing.  I play what is fun for me and not fotm.

[Draegan]

Don't use pistol phantasm builds from this BWE as anything more than a theme idea: there was a broken trait giving them over 100% haste and turning the phantasm into the highest damage skill around.

There are some really strong degen builds for mesmers though, they're pretty damned awesome. Every non duelist build this weekend sucked because they broke illusions for the weekend.

This is why I originally said Mesmers were broken and it appears people found a bug.  I did see a crazy warrior video somewhere that had warriors that stacked might killing everyone in like 2 seconds.

[Threash]

The autocrit on next hit and 30% extra dmg on next hit on weapon swap sigils were also a big part of those insane burst builds.

[Lantyssa]

There's a Warrior build which can hit 100% crit at level 20.

[kildorn]

That was just.. warriors. They have 2-3 skills that will one shot people, and a few immobilizes that prevent you from getting out of it. Think Mesmer sword #2 style damage, tripled. It's a little crazy. Hundred blades is crazy if people sit still for it's duration. Their adrenal skills also do absolutely hilarious damage (BWE1's warrior builds were things that build adrenaline, followed by a 1h sword swich because it's adrenal hit like a truck)

Actually, I have a bunch of complaints with a few abilities doing craploads more damage than their other options. Sword/Pistol thief has a 3 that does crazy damage, Axe necro #2 is the same. They seem to be channeled but do 4-5x the damage the other melee sets do for the same class.

[Draegan]

Yeah, I've heard Axes stacking power for necros is ridiculous. 

[Phred]

Ya sadly npc mobs seem to ignore the clones so the misdirection is of little use for pve.

Didn't really find that to be true, though I did only get to level 8. I mostly used sword/pistol, swapping to sceptre/pistol for ranged and to get the block ability. I would send in sword3 clone to open, send in pistol4 clone on a second target, then pistol5 on everyone. Then I'd sword3 again to blink into melee and position so sword2 hacked at everyone. Then just watch to re-apply the sword3 and pistol4 clones, and sword1/2 as needed, also watch for opportunities to f1-3 my clones. Pretty basic but really tore stuff up pretty good in pve. Only thing I missed was the thief ability (pistol, maybe) to duck back to gain range, they could add that to pistol4 so it behaved liked sword3 (swap places as a secondary effect).

Ya those guys seem to provide some distraction but the clones from scepter 1.2 are useless. They do no damage and exploding them does unnoticable damage either.

[Draegan]

Well clone shatter damage is pretty decent at level 2 or 3 as a noob but slowly gets worse as you level.  If I had to level a mesmer right now, I'd most likely use Sword/Torch, Sword/Pistol or Staff.  Some combinations of those three.

[Sky]

Ya those guys seem to provide some distraction but the clones from scepter 1.2 are useless. They do no damage and exploding them does unnoticable damage either.

I put scepter as the alt loadout simply because I needed something ranged for events with a bunch of people where I was having a tough time beating the zerg to the mob before it died. The sword3 swap ability was too slow, he'd take a second too long to close for me to then swap. But yeah, the clones were useless, saw a ton of 0 0 0 0 happening.

[Draegan]

If you really want ranged, use either the staff or greatsword, much better that the sceptre imo at low levels.

[Phred]

If you really want ranged, use either the staff or greatsword, much better that the sceptre imo at low levels.

Yes of course but the discussion is about the usefulness of clones and supporting your impressions that the mesmer was overall kind of weak and ineffectual.

[Sky]

If you really want ranged, use either the staff or greatsword, much better that the sceptre imo at low levels.

No pistol AE or pistol clone with those. But for release, who knows? We'll have to see what is what at that point.

[Phred]

If you really want ranged, use either the staff or greatsword, much better that the sceptre imo at low levels.

No pistol AE or pistol clone with those. But for release, who knows? We'll have to see what is what at that point.

True but the berserker clone is pretty nasty. I was alternating berserker and necro clones for dmg mostly.

[Nebu]

I'm just not feeling the love for GW2.  I'm trying to decide if it has something to do with the design of the game, the fact that I'm burned out on diku clones, or both.  Perhaps if I let it be for a while it will feel fresh when it releases ... in 2014.

[Numtini]

I'm just not feeling the love for GW2.

I enjoy it well enough, but I suspect I will play it to max level and then probably drop out. It doesn't seem to have an "end game" other than WvWvW and I'm not feeling like that's going to hold me. I think Eve's meaningful pvp has ruined me for things like RVR that reset automagically. Also, really, I miss the class interdependency gameplay--it doesn't have to be a hardline trinity, but right now it's just a DPS zerg. I think CoX did a good job and providing that feeling of interdependency without a hardline trinity. I don't get the feeling there's much point here to support skills.

[Zetor]

There are some 'serious' support skills that can turn a battle around on their own, like the mesmer time warp / null field, the guardian bubbles, etc. Even on my low-level elementalist, the 'healing rain' skill (long-duration healing + regen in a wide area + acts as a water field for skill combos) and to a smaller extent the 'geyser' skill (shorter-duration small-radius version of healing rain, but instant and shorter cooldown) made a huge difference in people getting away safely vs. dying on the spot both against pve event bosses and in wvw keep-defending against a zerg.

[Sky]

I'm pretty interested in it. I've liked what I've been reading for a while now, and my beta exposure was pretty positive. On the downside, I'm not a huge fan of pvp but otoh I'm open to it if it's fun for casual players to contribute and get something out of. Also, I'm pretty tired of generic fantasy settings, though at least it's not straight Tolkein and it's artistically strong which is pretty important to me.

Mostly it boils down to the fact that the combat seems pretty fun and fluid and f2p really would work well for me.

But the lack of some 'traditional' (read: WoW) mmo design is very appealing to me, since I don't like WoW and I feel the worst parts of TOR were where they aped its design, thus shooting past my niche. Should be interesting to see how my casual leanings mesh with GW2. It's the only mmo other than PS2 I have the least bit of interest in.

[Draegan]

Heh you hate WOW design but you played TOR.   

[Segoris]

it doesn't have to be a hardline trinity, but right now it's just a DPS zerg. I think CoX did a good job and providing that feeling of interdependency without a hardline trinity. I don't get the feeling there's much point here to support skills.

I have to disagree. I will say it doesn't feel like it's powerful when you look at regens healing for 100-200hp/s while you see crits of 10k, but boons like protection and small regens really do go a long way. I can't even count the number of times I was given feedback of how severely different of an experience it was for some people (random pugs mostly) playing near my guardian compared to some other support players (even gaurdians). Which is why I think it's more about support is just tougher to accel at than dps, but definitely has a point. Support, I think, also has more room for build variance in being successful this BWE as there were a couple of nerfs and a couple of bugs that were pigeon holing some dps.

Heh you hate WOW design but you played TOR.   

Remember, he plays MMOs incorrectly