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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  The Gaming Graveyard  |  Diablo 3  |  Topic: PSA: Don't craft, use the AH 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: PSA: Don't craft, use the AH  (Read 43867 times)
Amaron
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Reply #280 on: June 16, 2012, 02:25:04 PM

The problem is in the thread title.  Crafting sucks, so nobody salvages items or spends gold to build them.  It's supposed to be the gold sink and the item sink.

The pattern for good gloves was going for 50 million as soon as the commodities came back up.    The reason gold isn't inflating further is definitely because people are making Helms of Command/Gloves and a couple other things.

The gold sink works basically but the real problem is the item sink doesn't.    It's useless to have an item sink that only destroys trash items.   That's just vendor trash in the first place.
JRave
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Reply #281 on: June 16, 2012, 02:37:46 PM

Pretty sure the top patterns the blacksmith can use are one step down from the best item types that can drop.  For X-bows the best pattern I see is 6 property Doomcaster but Hellion Crossbow has the highest base damage.

If that's true I don't see the blacksmith being a large outlet for gold/items.

The top crafted weapons can still be good.  I've seen people make 1k dps 1 handers with it.  That being said the top ilvl dropped weapons can be better of course.  But you have to get lucky and roll a drop for that top item, then get lucky with the stats.  Compared to the crafted ones where once you have that pattern you just need to roll for stats.

That said the really good stuff is the crafted armor.  Base armor on the gear might be lower than the top ilvl pieces but the stats can really make up for that 100-200 less base armor.
Miasma
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Stopgap Measure


Reply #282 on: June 17, 2012, 05:54:46 PM

I can't google an answer so I need to ask, is buying gold off of the rmah disabled?  Because it never comes up with anything for me.
Amaron
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Reply #283 on: June 17, 2012, 06:00:57 PM

I can't google an answer so I need to ask, is buying gold off of the rmah disabled?  Because it never comes up with anything for me.

Yea I guess they figured turning it on would melt their servers as people spammed it trying to wait for the lowest price.
Malakili
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Reply #284 on: July 08, 2012, 01:17:21 PM

I've been using /trade a bunch lately and it is interesting.  You can sell off unidentified level 63 rares for a pretty penny right now.  A few hundred thousand a piece.  Obviously you could ID and maybe get that huge item worth millions, but in my experience they end up being worth less than what I am getting un-ided.   It is basically just player run gambling vendor, when I think about it.
schild
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Reply #285 on: July 08, 2012, 04:28:48 PM

I am so going to start doing that.
waffel
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Reply #286 on: July 08, 2012, 05:00:36 PM

Just for reference... how the AH looked in 2008:



Malakili
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Reply #287 on: July 08, 2012, 05:27:54 PM

Yea, not sure why that didn't make it in. 
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #288 on: July 08, 2012, 05:33:49 PM

Dear god, that's so much better than the actual AH.

 Ohhhhh, I see.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
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Miasma
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Reply #289 on: July 08, 2012, 06:25:43 PM

There was an AH in the last diablo?  That also had a real money component?  I don't think so, so I don't get the joke.
waffel
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Reply #290 on: July 08, 2012, 06:32:05 PM

There was an AH in the last diablo?  That also had a real money component?  I don't think so, so I don't get the joke.

Not really a joke. I actually had the time wrong, that screenshot was from 2011, at GamesCom, where Jay Wilson was describing D3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBYVpfte6UE&feature=player_detailpage#t=222s
Malakili
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Reply #291 on: July 08, 2012, 06:37:33 PM

There was an AH in the last diablo?  That also had a real money component?  I don't think so, so I don't get the joke.

There is no joke, it is, apparently, a screenshot from an old build.  The UI is far superior to the current one for reasons unknown.

I have a sick feeling they like the idea of searching with only 3 parameters because it forces you to look for the good items rather than just get PRECISELY the item you want every time.  Perhaps they think it helps there be a market for a wider variety of items.   This is speculation, I'm really just trying to justify in some way how they could've ended up with what we have no.
Paelos
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Error 404: Title not found.


Reply #292 on: July 08, 2012, 09:09:27 PM

My guess is that it was taking too long to query the database and/or sucking up too much computing power with more parameters. It probably increased lag, so they cut it.

CPA, Sports blogger, Mount and Blade enthusiast
Braves by the Numbers, my sports blog
Ice Cream Emperor
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Reply #293 on: July 08, 2012, 10:21:16 PM


I guess I have no idea how databases work, but shouldn't each additional term require exponentially less computation power/server load? It has to filter fewer and fewer entries. Unless there is some way that databases apply filter terms simultaneously, instead of sequentially, but uh...  Head scratch

My vote is for incredibly stupid decision-making, in the 'if we don't let them search properly then they will buy crappier items by accident! Market inefficiency creates additional transactions! I think fucking with people when real money is involved will actually somehow increase their trust and engagement with the system in question! I should be fired and/or executed by firing squad!' sort of vein.
Ingmar
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Reply #294 on: July 08, 2012, 11:10:05 PM

My guess is that it was taking too long to query the database and/or sucking up too much computing power with more parameters. It probably increased lag, so they cut it.

This. We saw how even the commodity searches would bring the thing to its knees, limiting the number of fields in the search almost certainly is done for similar reasons.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
schild
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Reply #295 on: July 08, 2012, 11:32:47 PM

Captain Obvious here:

Same number of queries as is currently available. Only we get a Min-Value option now instead of 3 extra stats. X where X is > Y 3 times is the same as has A, B, C, D, E, and F as values without a stat attached. Possibly even a slower query.

Diablo 3 is the definition of over-designed.

At least, as a layman that first part seems obvious.

Edit: Hell, we also have options for level range (not just level) and a full rarity spectrum.
Ingmar
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Reply #296 on: July 08, 2012, 11:37:49 PM

Yeah of course - I didn't even notice the value ranges were gone.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Llyse
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Calvin and Hobbes are back to maul the fuck outta you.


Reply #297 on: July 08, 2012, 11:55:59 PM

Captain Obvious here:

Same number of queries as is currently available. Only we get a Min-Value option now instead of 3 extra stats. X where X is > Y 3 times is the same as has A, B, C, D, E, and F as values without a stat attached. Possibly even a slower query.

Diablo 3 is the definition of over-designed.

At least, as a layman that first part seems obvious.

Edit: Hell, we also have options for level range (not just level) and a full rarity spectrum.

More fields are still needed since All Resist is a mandatory stat for Inferno...

Queries should be faster with more filters but I'm not sure if because of the amount of prefixes and random values for each one indexes might not be efficient...

Where's my full time DBA gone to?
Miasma
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Reply #298 on: July 09, 2012, 09:12:25 AM

Filters don't make database queries faster because that's what's doing the filtering work.
Salamok
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Reply #299 on: July 09, 2012, 09:24:03 AM

Queries should be faster with more filters but I'm not sure if because of the amount of prefixes and random values for each one indexes might not be efficient...

Not positive (because they are pulling the page count from somewhere besides their ass) but pretty sure they are doing a limit on the results so if they are just grabbing 25 items per page view adding more filters isn't going to speed you up.  Also with the number of attributes possible on an item they could have some slow ass overly normalized meta-table design going on, if that is the case all of your preconceptions on what makes for a fast filter are probably wrong due to the joins involved.

That all said has anyone tried to take a peek behind the scenes with wireshark or something while browsing the AH?  I keep meaning to check and not getting around to it, my guess is it's encrypted but even if all you could extract were items you browsed it could still be handy to dump to a spreadsheet for additional sorting and filtering options.
Ice Cream Emperor
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Reply #300 on: July 09, 2012, 05:28:50 PM

Filters don't make database queries faster because that's what's doing the filtering work.

The question was about running additional filters. It seems to me that after you filter for 1-hand weapons with +strength, adding a filter for +lifesteal should be less work than the initial +strength filter, etc. etc. Because you are sorting a smaller and smaller pool of qualifying items?

Either way having only 3 stats to filter by is horrible UI -- having a massive open market of goods and then actually making it impossible to easily perform arbitrage (because your tools for filtering are so poor) is really dumb.
Xanthippe
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Reply #301 on: July 14, 2012, 02:11:12 PM

Can anyone explain to me why crafting materials sell on the AH for less on average than what a player can vendor blues/yellows?

Why do people break down the items rather than vendor them?

Rokal
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Reply #302 on: July 14, 2012, 02:30:38 PM

Can anyone explain to me why crafting materials sell on the AH for less on average than what a player can vendor blues/yellows?

Why do people break down the items rather than vendor them?

There may be plenty of people out there that haven't yet realized that crafting is useless pre-60 and too expensive, or realize after breaking down thousands of items.
Malakili
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Reply #303 on: July 14, 2012, 02:49:46 PM

Can anyone explain to me why crafting materials sell on the AH for less on average than what a player can vendor blues/yellows?

Why do people break down the items rather than vendor them?



Depends on the item.  I don't know what they are going for right now, but the exquisite essences were selling for ~1500 last week, so I was using that as my benchmark for whether or not to sell an item.
Phred
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Reply #304 on: July 14, 2012, 05:45:00 PM

 nm.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 05:47:43 PM by Phred »
Abelian75
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Reply #305 on: July 14, 2012, 09:10:31 PM

There may be plenty of people out there that haven't yet realized that crafting is useless pre-60 and too expensive, or realize after breaking down thousands of items.

Certainly the case with me and my stash of a couple hundred of normal and nightmare tier blue crafting mats.
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