Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 26, 2022, 02:22:16 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Valve Handbook for New Employees 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] Go Down Print
Author Topic: Valve Handbook for New Employees  (Read 24591 times)
Xanthippe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4779


Reply #105 on: April 30, 2012, 12:44:25 PM

I've never seen someone who constantly works weekends and/or 9-10 hour days be anything but a miserable cranky asshole.

Provided it doesn't last indefinitely, I have. My spouse worked 70ish hours a week for almost a year about the time I was pregnant with our son, and he loved it. Loved the team, loved the project, the company treated people very well. It was a really fun time for him.

I don't think that he would have continued to be happy had that been a normal work week, though. He loves what he does but not quite enough to do it 7 days a week for years.
NiX
Wiki Admin
Posts: 7770

Locomotive Pandamonium


Reply #106 on: April 30, 2012, 01:01:34 PM

Provided it doesn't last indefinitely, I have. My spouse worked 70ish hours a week for almost a year about the time I was pregnant with our son, and he loved it. Loved the team, loved the project, the company treated people very well. It was a really fun time for him.

I don't think that he would have continued to be happy had that been a normal work week, though. He loves what he does but not quite enough to do it 7 days a week for years.

Unfortunately a lot of us aren't doing something we love, just something we don't mind doing. The worst part is that I've had something like 10-12 jobs and I know it could be way worse in terms of work environment and stress.
HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42502

the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring


WWW
Reply #107 on: April 30, 2012, 04:17:34 PM

96-hour work weeks? FUCK A BUNCH OF THAT. Miserable asshole? I'd be fucking murderous.

I worked at a newspaper getting their first web site launched back in 1998. From the time I started at the beginning of February to the beginning of May, I had to get the site up and it was a massive multi-site hydra that had nothing to do with news (the Gannett's shitbags wanted a real estate, classifieds and jobs site before news). For the last month before the launch, I worked from 8 am til 1:30/2 am the next morning, then came back and did it again, every single day of the week including the weekends. By the last Friday, I was fucking mush. That day I came in at 8 am, and wasn't allowed to leave until the next day at 12 noon. And the only reason I was allowed to leave was that I told them I couldn't do this shit anymore and I was going home to sleep. I was literally falling asleep with my hand on the mouse while FTPing files to the server.

I can guarantee you I wasn't in anyway remotely worth one gram of fuck from about 5 pm that Friday. And that was when I was 26 years old. Somehow I managed to sleep that whole Saturday and make it back for another 12-hour day on Sunday to get the goddamn site live. I didn't stay at the job one picosecond longer than I had to. Those fuckers are crazy.

Anybody that tells you overtime is productive is trying to steal from you, and not money but something more precious... time. That person is also a complete gibbering monkey's asshole and should be fired into the sun.

Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3332

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #108 on: April 30, 2012, 07:22:33 PM

Wow 96 is just completely insane, especially long haul.

8-10 hour productive days are totally possible, but beyond that it really gets into diminishing returns pretty rapidly.  In bursts, sure, I've had the occasional 15+ hour day where I was just cranking out the code, or a three day weekend bringing up a new platform where I camped out at the office, but sustaining over 50-60 hours a week for months or more and actually having that time be worthwhile... not something that happens in my experience.

I'm not familiar with the "more applicants than we know what to do with" situation, if you qualify it as "qualified applicants."  Finding good people has always been the hardest part.  Admittedly I tend to interview systems/OS engineers and that's a less common skillset, but even at Google (which definitely gets an absurd volume of resumes submitted) I've found it difficult to find really good people.

And yeah, I'll repeat: crazy hours poured into something that you love (and, ideally, you're getting good pay or other compensation for) is entirely different than mandatory insane overtime.
Fabricated
Moderator
Posts: 8963

~Living the Dream~


WWW
Reply #109 on: May 01, 2012, 07:10:41 AM

What the fuck is it with IT/Programming jobs and ridiculous work schedules that people just put up with? Is it just because you're not working with equipment that can actually kill people like factory jobs?

I know my business degree is useless and what I learned was pointless, but literally every book or class I had that discussed HR/compensation/etc basically said, "If you're giving overtime, you are a shitty manager."

"The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist." - George Bernard Shaw
NiX
Wiki Admin
Posts: 7770

Locomotive Pandamonium


Reply #110 on: May 01, 2012, 07:59:29 AM

What the fuck is it with IT/Programming jobs and ridiculous work schedules that people just put up with? Is it just because you're not working with equipment that can actually kill people like factory jobs?

I know my business degree is useless and what I learned was pointless, but literally every book or class I had that discussed HR/compensation/etc basically said, "If you're giving overtime, you are a shitty manager."

It's really a result of there still being a lot of archaic business practices in place because the people who coveted them haven't retired or died yet. The generation gap in the workplace right now is mostly problematic.
Kageru
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4549


Reply #111 on: May 01, 2012, 09:06:09 AM

What the fuck is it with IT/Programming jobs and ridiculous work schedules that people just put up with? Is it just because you're not working with equipment that can actually kill people like factory jobs?

No professional body. Lawyers and Accountants (and many other professions) have additional levels of certification that reduce the number of practitioners so you can't treat them quite as expendably. Plus it is a relatively young profession and for some reason all the old guys burn out / aren't as employable (probably because they push back when told to work stupid hours).

Working regular over-time is pretty much contributing to unemployment and fat corporate profits.. /cheer.

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
Murgos
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7474


Reply #112 on: May 01, 2012, 10:23:21 AM

To be fair, other professional bodies do make their (new) employees work retard hours as well.  Lawyers at private practice routinely work 80-90 hours until they make partner and Dr.s routinely work 2-day shifts when starting out.

No, I don't think either practice is justified.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Kageru
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4549


Reply #113 on: May 01, 2012, 10:36:24 AM


Yep, that's how they reduce the number of practitioners. It's a wonderful system if you are on the right side of the bar.

Is a man not entitled to the hurf of his durf?
- Simond
Engels
Terracotta Army
Posts: 9028

inflicts shingles.


Reply #114 on: May 01, 2012, 12:24:40 PM

I used to work at Amazon in the late 90s, and I can tell you that yes, we had crazy overtime during certain periods, but nothing like Bhodi's old boss describes. However, I can imagine some Amazon departments still have that level of nuttyness. Its a hang over from the dot com years, where working at Amazon was basically your 'joy in life'. Amazon folks were your playmates as well as your workmates, and there was a sense that we were all 'making history', so the insane commitment felt more like a mutually shared adventure. Naturally, after the novelty of the internetz wore off, people started to burn out on the hours, and wanted to have a family, and kids, etc.

It was GREAT for 20 somethings making something of themselves. Bullshit for anyone already established in life.

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
Xanthippe
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4779


Reply #115 on: May 01, 2012, 03:06:48 PM

What the fuck is it with IT/Programming jobs and ridiculous work schedules that people just put up with? Is it just because you're not working with equipment that can actually kill people like factory jobs?

Plus it is a relatively young profession and for some reason all the old guys burn out / aren't as employable (probably because they push back when told to work stupid hours).


Old guys aren't willing to live at the office like young guys are. Which is why they aren't as employable as the hungry.
Merusk
Terracotta Army
Posts: 27447

Badge Whore


Reply #116 on: May 01, 2012, 03:16:58 PM

Old guys look back at the ruin of their early lives, families and marriages and say "well that sure as fuck wasn't worth it" and stop working long hours.

Maybe that's just me.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Ingmar
Terracotta Army
Posts: 19280

Auto Assault Affectionado


Reply #117 on: May 01, 2012, 03:27:59 PM

Old guys aren't willing to live at the office like young guys are. Which is why they aren't as employableexploitable as the hungry.

The Transcendent One: AH... THE ROGUE CONSTRUCT.
Nordom: Sense of closure: imminent.
Murgos
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7474


Reply #118 on: May 02, 2012, 07:15:16 AM

They [old guys] also have less easily replaced skill sets.  Which typically requires their employer to give them more lee-way or risk losing them.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
NiX
Wiki Admin
Posts: 7770

Locomotive Pandamonium


Reply #119 on: May 02, 2012, 08:12:32 AM

They [old guys] also have less easily replaced skill sets.  Which typically requires their employer to give them more lee-way or risk losing them.

I can only hope to one day achieve this status. Tired of the expectation being that I should be paid for as little work as possible while I work ~45-50 hour weeks.
jakonovski
Terracotta Army
Posts: 4388


Reply #120 on: May 02, 2012, 09:00:21 AM

They [old guys] also have less easily replaced skill sets.  Which typically requires their employer to give them more lee-way or risk losing them.

I can only hope to one day achieve this status. Tired of the expectation being that I should be paid for as little work as possible while I work ~45-50 hour weeks.

The curious part is that the end result differs very little from Soviet work practices. 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  Gaming  |  Topic: Valve Handbook for New Employees  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC