Wasteland 2

[Strazos]

Hmm, was I supposed to go back to Citadel before Ag Center/Hightower? Dialogue seemed to imply I needed to get to one of those places quickly, so I didn't go back after the radio tower area.

I kind of put this game on hold, as it does not perform too well on my laptop - I'm ordering a new PC soon, and I'm not far enough in that restarting is much of an issue.

[Rasix]

You can go back as there's a few partial turn-ins for exp.  I'm not sure if going back after doing either Highpool or AG Center completely gives you full access, but if so, then I would definitely go back.

I don't think the game actually keeps track of time. There's no day/night cycle that I'm aware of and no passing of time in the overworld map.

[Strazos]

Good, because my team was getting dangerously low on ammo just from clearing the two wings of the lab.

[Zetor]

So far:

Assault Rifle: awesome as soon as you get a new one.  Before then: terrible.  Range can get an issue if mobs get personal.
Pistol: OK. Not great, but at least it's usable when that wolf closes to melee range from somewhere off screen in one turn.
Sniper rifle: Godly if you can get high ground.  OK if you can still maintain range.  Shit AP costs.
Energy weapon: Sometimes it sucks, sometimes it's good. Low range, but no min range.
Heavy weapons: Chews through assault rifle ammo.  Decent early damage, but again, it'll tear through your ammo like nothing.
Bladed weapons: Great with that mod that lowers AP cost.  Kind of shitty damage until you get a combat knife, but it's nice to be able to do damage when something inevitably gets in your face.
Shotguns: OK.  I don't like them much.
Sub-machine runs: might be a better option than a pistol. Haven't used much.

Explosives: Fun if you just want to insta-win an annoying fight.

Pretty much. I'll post my impressions from the endgame (though I didn't use SMGs and heavy weapons):

• AR: best single-target damage (with bursts), longish range, accurate. My AR guy is probably the MVP of the entire team, combat-wise. There's enough ammo drops in the game to comfortably support 2 AR users as long as you don't have a Heavy Weapons Guy.
• Sniper: good single-target damage (much lower than AR though) with ridiculous spike damage on headshots, longest range, even more accurate. I'd recommend this on a medic/surgeon or a high-cha/int player, since it works just fine with low combat stats.
• Handgun: lowish single-target damage, short-med range, moderately accurate. If I had to pick a worst weapon, I'd pick this one. Advantage is having pistols with 2/3 AP per attack in the early game, allowing hits on multiple (weak) enemies. Late game its niche is almost entirely finishing off weakened enemies so the characters with better weapons don't have to waste their turns doing that -- unfortunately lategame pistol AP costs are on par with sniper rifles without the spike damage or accuracy (for headshots). I'd recommend either taking a secondary weapon skill (energy or maybe AR), or sticking it on a field medic so that they can heal the frontliners when plinking away at dangerous enemies isn't particularly effective.
• Energy: very good damage on hard targets (on par with snipers, but an energy user can probably attack twice per turn), cheap ammo, really long range (almost equivalent to a sniper rifle), doesn't suffer from accuracy penalties if there's an enemy in melee range, but there's a catch -- only good on high-armor enemies, thus useless for most of the early game. Also can't crit (but can't jam either) and thus doesn't benefit as much from invested skillpoints. I'd also put this either on a field medic or a surgeon and having at least a few points in another weapon skill to handle the early game. There's definitely enough energy weapon ammo to supply 2 EW users throughout the entire game. I have to keep stashing my energy cells, they're kinda heavy!
• Shotgun: very good at softening up (or finishing off) multiple targets - especially with the way the AI likes to position itself -, cheap ammo... but really short range, even worse than handguns. Having more than one shotgunner will probably cause positioning-related frustration.
• Blunt: melee is surprisingly powerful in WL2 -- it pierces more armor than most ranged weapons, forces ranged enemies to leave cover (or better, waste their turns running away from you instead of shooting), and they're better at fending off melee attackers from your rifle users than handgun users / shotgunners. In my experience, blunt weapons can crit for absolutely ridiculous numbers (I remember 70+ crits in AG center with a lead pipe; I crit heavily-armored enemies for 280+ with an endgame hammer, while my AR guy does ~200-250 damage with a burst if he gets a crit) and with the mandatory -1 AP grip mod they can attack a lot of times per round. Blunt weapons can inflict concussion, which is a very useful debuff (much better than bleed). If you only have one melee ranger, blunt weapons is better than blades IMO.
• Blades: see above. Blades tend to be a bit faster (more attacks) and hit for less damage; they also bleed enemies instead of concussion, which isn't that useful.

[tmp]

I'm only through Highpool/AG and part of the Prison.  The amount of skills I need to open all of the boxes is really annoying. I've even taken to not leveling the talking skills, because that would impede my ability to open the boxes.  Also, this means I have to fight every damn over-world encounter because I haven't leveled the ability to let me run away.

Unless you did a really stupid thing and put all your skills on one guy, why would you have to choose between talk and opening boxes? For running away Outdoors 2 the followed you get from the starting camp seemed enough, when it didn't the 'load last save and try again' did, as usual.

I've put together a team from the pre-made chars and it seems to be doing ok for me so far (just made it to the Prison as well)

* Bear, AR/medic, secondary sniper/leadership/outdoors
* Fade, submachine guns/lock picks/safe cracking, secondary sniper/alarms
* Slick, hanguns/smart ass/kiss ass, secondary bladed weapons
* Hex, energy/demolitions/repair, secondary perception/computers

the followers I got from the base and the Ag Center cover the other skills (brute force, hard ass, weaponsmithing, surgeon and computers)

[rk47]

Stop the boxes. BOXES. NO . STOP.

[shiznitz]

The key to starting out is knowing what NPCs are available early.  Rose at the Ag center is a science/surgeon spec so I am wishing I hadn't invested in Computer Science on Frodo, my midget sniper.  Frodo is also my energy weapon and SMG specialist since I knew I wouldn't get a good sniper rifle right away but it did come quicker than I expected.  He is also not bad at Kiss Ass.  SMG was really nice early on but now it eats up my pistol ammo too fast.  Sharona is my 7 STR blunt and shotgun specialist but I wouldn't pair those up again.  I gave her too many tech skills though so she is falling behind in combat. Brutus is 6 STR with Heavy, AR and Blunt.  His non-combat skills are Bash and Outdoor so he is easily the team MVP on kills.  My leader is handguns, medic, surgeon, leadership (do NOT ignore this skill) and hard ass.

I have ignored Barter, Toaster Repair and Animal Whisperer: the first because my party usually ends up with too much money in these games since I am such a thorough looter and the third because AI can be unreliable and get you killed some times in these games.

On a replay, I think a team of 8 INT/8 STR characters would rock.  It was also always fun in Fallout to have a 10 Luck character in the party.

[Ingmar]

You DO get let into the Citadel proper after doing just one of Ag Center/Highpool, which the game doesn't make clear. Having access to the stuff there makes a very big difference.

[tmp]

Stop the boxes. BOXES. NO . STOP.

This gets even worse when you realize the content of these boxes is randomly generated either when one is opened, or on the game (re)load

[Furiously]

Key sent to Lucas.

[shiznitz]

I did go back to Citadel after Ag Center and Highpool, but I didn't have too much money to buy a lot.  Still, I got a few upgrades and ammo re-supply.  I also picked up Ace's chick this time. She is level 14 and my guys are 6-7.  I fought some 125hp Red Scorpions in a random encounter and that made me want to go to Nomad camp before the prison.

[Rasix]

The funny thing is, you can run into those 125 HP raiders on the way to finishing off the Wrecking Crew. That happened to me, so I ignored that fight for a long time.   When you actually get there, all of the assholes have 15hp.    It was a giant one shot fest, although they do have an elevated position that can be a bit of a pain.

The end solution to the Rail Nomads stuff is stupid.  I get that they don't want to hold hands (which is honestly just a way to be lazy about QoL improvements), but fuck this kind of shit.

[Ingmar]

There are other ways to solve that as well, depending on choices you make (or if you have a high enough Smart Ass skill.)

[Rasix]

6 points in Smart Ass (why are there 3 goddamn speaking skills) seemed.. excessive.

[tmp]

The funny thing is, you can run into those 125 HP raiders on the way to finishing off the Wrecking Crew. That happened to me, so I ignored that fight for a long time.   When you actually get there, all of the assholes have 15hp.    It was a giant one shot fest, although they do have an elevated position that can be a bit of a pain.

Yeah, the level jumps are pretty rough at the beginning, dunno about later parts of the game. The enemies in Ag Center and the other place + the follow up are in 20-30 hp range except for occasional boss, and then the Prison area is right after story-wise, and you're greeted by everyone having at least 80+ hp and capable of two-shotting your guys... and the random encounter people are even stronger.

[Threash]

So far:

Assault Rifle: awesome as soon as you get a new one.  Before then: terrible.  Range can get an issue if mobs get personal.
Pistol: OK. Not great, but at least it's usable when that wolf closes to melee range from somewhere off screen in one turn.
Sniper rifle: Godly if you can get high ground.  OK if you can still maintain range.  Shit AP costs.
Energy weapon: Sometimes it sucks, sometimes it's good. Low range, but no min range.
Heavy weapons: Chews through assault rifle ammo.  Decent early damage, but again, it'll tear through your ammo like nothing.
Bladed weapons: Great with that mod that lowers AP cost.  Kind of shitty damage until you get a combat knife, but it's nice to be able to do damage when something inevitably gets in your face.
Shotguns: OK.  I don't like them much.
Sub-machine runs: might be a better option than a pistol. Haven't used much.

Explosives: Fun if you just want to insta-win an annoying fight.

Pretty much. I'll post my impressions from the endgame (though I didn't use SMGs and heavy weapons):

• AR: best single-target damage (with bursts), longish range, accurate. My AR guy is probably the MVP of the entire team, combat-wise. There's enough ammo drops in the game to comfortably support 2 AR users as long as you don't have a Heavy Weapons Guy.
• Sniper: good single-target damage (much lower than AR though) with ridiculous spike damage on headshots, longest range, even more accurate. I'd recommend this on a medic/surgeon or a high-cha/int player, since it works just fine with low combat stats.
• Handgun: lowish single-target damage, short-med range, moderately accurate. If I had to pick a worst weapon, I'd pick this one. Advantage is having pistols with 2/3 AP per attack in the early game, allowing hits on multiple (weak) enemies. Late game its niche is almost entirely finishing off weakened enemies so the characters with better weapons don't have to waste their turns doing that -- unfortunately lategame pistol AP costs are on par with sniper rifles without the spike damage or accuracy (for headshots). I'd recommend either taking a secondary weapon skill (energy or maybe AR), or sticking it on a field medic so that they can heal the frontliners when plinking away at dangerous enemies isn't particularly effective.
• Energy: very good damage on hard targets (on par with snipers, but an energy user can probably attack twice per turn), cheap ammo, really long range (almost equivalent to a sniper rifle), doesn't suffer from accuracy penalties if there's an enemy in melee range, but there's a catch -- only good on high-armor enemies, thus useless for most of the early game. Also can't crit (but can't jam either) and thus doesn't benefit as much from invested skillpoints. I'd also put this either on a field medic or a surgeon and having at least a few points in another weapon skill to handle the early game. There's definitely enough energy weapon ammo to supply 2 EW users throughout the entire game. I have to keep stashing my energy cells, they're kinda heavy!
• Shotgun: very good at softening up (or finishing off) multiple targets - especially with the way the AI likes to position itself -, cheap ammo... but really short range, even worse than handguns. Having more than one shotgunner will probably cause positioning-related frustration.
• Blunt: melee is surprisingly powerful in WL2 -- it pierces more armor than most ranged weapons, forces ranged enemies to leave cover (or better, waste their turns running away from you instead of shooting), and they're better at fending off melee attackers from your rifle users than handgun users / shotgunners. In my experience, blunt weapons can crit for absolutely ridiculous numbers (I remember 70+ crits in AG center with a lead pipe; I crit heavily-armored enemies for 280+ with an endgame hammer, while my AR guy does ~200-250 damage with a burst if he gets a crit) and with the mandatory -1 AP grip mod they can attack a lot of times per round. Blunt weapons can inflict concussion, which is a very useful debuff (much better than bleed). If you only have one melee ranger, blunt weapons is better than blades IMO.
• Blades: see above. Blades tend to be a bit faster (more attacks) and hit for less damage; they also bleed enemies instead of concussion, which isn't that useful.

What about brawling? i assume its shit since no one ever mentions it.

[Rasix]

Seems like a lower AP, lower damage version of Blunt.

[Zetleft]

The key to starting out is knowing what NPCs are available early.  Rose at the Ag center is a science/surgeon spec so I am wishing I hadn't invested in Computer Science on Frodo, my midget sniper. 

WTH are random encounters so ridiculously hard, I'm not far along the game but as it's been said after fighting them I was almost out of ammo when I reached  wrecking crew's pad and I thought I would be in for a fight.   

A bunch of target practice dummies would have been a bigger challenge. 

[Rasix]

I didn't know you could recruit NPCs, so I just let the prisoner go  (I assume that's the recruitable?).  Right now I have a drunk guy that shits his pants, an insane Indian, and of course Ms Deth. I should probably just ditch Chisel and go back to the kid.  At least he could fix toasters and talk to animals. 

[rk47]

Are there even drugs in this game?

[shiznitz]

Are there even drugs in this game?

Not that I have seen.

I like that the NPC difficulty is not predictably linear. I just stumbled on a map location with 3 500hp robots that double attack for 30-60dmg. My team got butchered because the bots got initiative and could leap into melee range.

I also really like how the NPCs who will join your party bring actual use to one's group.  For the second go around, one could really min max the core party knowing the NPCs available later in the game, and as someone said before this type of game is all about min maxing and then just slaughtering your way through the storyline.

[Rasix]

Are there even drugs in this game?

In the Rail Nomad camp there's groups of junkies that will attack you with used hypodermic needles.  Roasted Skorpion applies "Chasing the Skorpion" and is purchasable, if I'm remembering right, at a drug lab there and often found on dead junkies.

[CmdrSlack]

There's also some shrooms in the nomad camp, but no idea whether they do anything. 

[Xilren's Twin]

There's also some shrooms in the nomad camp, but no idea whether they do anything. 

Side quest for the aforementioned drug dealer.

[CmdrSlack]

There's also some shrooms in the nomad camp, but no idea whether they do anything. 

Side quest for the aforementioned drug dealer.

Yeah, knew that bit. I meant whether they are usable and have an effect. I never tried that during beta. 

[Xilren's Twin]

BTW, had a funny moment when my female ranger was standing a little too close to a suicide monk in the canyon.  Took minor damage from the blast but it incinerated her clothing.
So now's she saving the wasteland tits out and in white briefs...
I may post the screen shot when i get home.

[Tebonas]

Seems I screwed up the Rail Nomad camp, those two idiots shot each other and of course the last non-quicksave was when I entered the camp first.

Man, I really love this game, though. Apart from the missing "Start Combat" button and the major inconvenience of having to manually select who uses what skill I also don't find the UI that horrible.

Still, I'm really thinking if the peaceful solution is worth replaying five hours or if I should cool down a bit with Endless Legend and restart with an optimized party.

[rk47]

Dunno how u can stand this game.
It's buggy and poorly tested.
Yakety Sax would fit the combat tune with the super sprinting enemies and seemingly random LOS.

[Rasix]

The cutscene for when you rescue Bihn is fucking hilarious.  How did anyone think that was good idea to zoom in on the poorly rendered model doing her best impression of a raptor from Jurassic Park?  Ohh well, at my energy weapons specialist finally pulled her weight in Damonta.

[Ingmar]

I'm on the 2nd map now and I haven't encountered any notable bugs. Unless the super sprinting AI is a bug.

[Falconeer]

Lots of people can stand this game because they belong to a different generation and come from a different time, so different life (and gaming) experiences, different perception of fun, different tolerance for different standards and levels of polish or visuals, and so on...

[Rasix]

I've only ran into a couple of bugs.  I've had to close the game a couple of times when the UI all of the sudden got stuck/unresponsive.  Worst part is that it happened right after a fight I had won.  

The mem-leak / random slowdowns can be a bit of a pain. 

[Zetor]

I'm on the 2nd map now and I haven't encountered any notable bugs. Unless the super sprinting AI is a bug.

Yeah, the crazy sprinting a known bug, will get patched soonish. I can also confirm the janky LOS -- sometimes an enemy who's obviously behind hard cover is easily visible and targetable with normal hit chance, other times someone hugging the cover from the wrong side still gets the full cover bonus. Also, some solid obstacles (like buildings, boulders, and even hills) apparently aren't solid; this is important on Ranger+ difficulty, since the Meson Cannon enemies lock onto a ranger and track them for 3 rounds, then fire and probably one-shot them unless they're behind hard cover. Imagine my surprise when I was burninated from ~30 tiles away, behind a building and a hill interceding between me and the Meson Cannon! Maybe it just fires mesons that go through solid barriers.  

I ran into 3 major bugs myself, but none of them were real show-stoppers. One of them made the UI unresponsive and shadows / overlay icons fly around like crazy, but went away when I managed to attack someone successfully. Another one involved some enemies being untargetable (they were still hostile though), but I was able to use force-attack to target and hit them. A third one was at the very end of the game when the game went into cutscene mode while I was in the middle of a level-up conversation. Had to blindly hit ENTER and ESC a bunch of times, but managed to escape without further breakage.

I also saw some bugged conversation nodes on a minor NPC, but I wasn't planning on doing that quest anyway.

[rk47]

Look, 66% of activity is combat and I cannot believe the QA did not notice this bullshit occurring on regular basis.
When you play Turn-based combat, you really want to have the certainty of LOS established before spending the AP to move there only to be told you can't fire at the enemy.
Also, the super sprinting enemy, and stop in front of your squad to get shot on the face is a bug that made tactical combat a joke.
Add in the multiple UI nonsense, I could probably tolerate this 10 years ago - but I don't remember being annoyed so much at combat in Fallout 2. It was quick, it was funny and the animations are sharper.
In this game, background environments block overhead camera, forcing me rotating all the time just to see wtf is blocking sight - enemies that has chicken shit AI.
I faced no performance issue but the game play annoyances killed whatever little fun was there.

[Zetor]

The AI (and the engine in general) has... issues with doorways, too. Take the casino in Rodia:

Code:

_____________
|     |     |
|     |     |
|     |     |
|           |
|     |     |
|     |     |
|__ __|_____|

Rangers are outside the southern door, bad dudes are in both of the rooms. Neither of the rooms have any southern windows, so the rangers shouldn't be able to see into the eastern room at all.

Here's what happened, though:

• The Jerks in the western room ran outside and got gunned down. OK.
• I noticed - through the wall, mind - that the Jerks in the eastern room were gathering around the southern wall of the room, and spent their turns running against the wall.
• Very rarely one of them would break and rush the rangers by going through the doorway, then exiting the building (probably the AP bug), then getting unceremoniously gunned down.
• Once I moved some of my melee into the western room, the Jerks in the eastern room finally realized they can attack someone and moved into the room to do that.

Doorways in general are screwy/janky when it comes to LOS and entering/exiting as well: no diagonal movement, so if someone 'blocks the door' you're SOL, whether friend or foe... this is really annoying when you start a turn and your slowest character is blocking the doorway for everyone else.