Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 18, 2017, 04:51:34 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Search:     Advanced search
Donate! | Subscribe! | Shop: Amazon

***DONATION DRIVE 2 HAS BEGUN:
CLICK HERE TO BURN MONEY***
*
Home Help Search Login Register
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  PC/Console Gaming  |  Topic: Kerbal Space Program! 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Kerbal Space Program!  (Read 26954 times)
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


on: March 08, 2012, 02:03:27 PM

Kerbal Space Program Teaser Trailer

Quote
KSP is a game where the player creates and manages his own space program.
Build spacecraft, fly them, and try to help the Kerbals to fulfill their ultimate mission of conquering space.

The game is currently under heavy development. This means the game will be improved on a regular basis, so be sure to check back for new updates.
Right now, KSP is in Alpha state, but we want you to try it out and have fun with it. The first versions are free to download and play, and will remain so forever.

This game was brought up a bit back in the "What are you playing" thread. Its worth a look and gives back some fun.

I would love to see what designs and Failures you guys come up with.

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Kail
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2769


Reply #1 on: March 08, 2012, 03:59:36 PM

Grabbed the demo, seems a bit shallow.  In terms of failures, I could upload a few videos, but the builder seems rather limited (there are three "types" of engines and fuel tanks you can stack together, struts for fuel lines or structural support, a few types of control modules, and some winglets of dubious usefulness, and that's it) so they'd all be variations on the themes of "I keeled over on takeoff and obliterated the tower" or "here I am spinning out of control". 

The only really funny thing that happened to me so far is that my decoupler refused to decouple (maybe because I was under acceleration when I accidentally hit it, I dunno) and when I started to lose stability, I yanked the parachute to try to pull the command module away from the rocket, but it still wouldn't detatch.  So the ship ended up spazzing out like a ballon stuck with a pin until crashing.

Other than that, seems fairly straightforward.  I managed to get onto orbit on my third try (though I did fuck up the landing by sticking the SAS module on the wrong side of my last decoupler, which crunched it under the command module when I landed rather than dropping it on someone I don't care about when I jetissoned the last stage).  I'm just not sure what else there is to do.  I kind of considered trying to Apollo it or something, but with no mission control and no accurate navigation devices, and no numbers on things like distances or orbital periods, I'm not sure if I'd be able to crunch the math.  And you'd have to hack something together if you wanted to actually land on the moon, since there's no way to design an LM or re-dock with the CSM if you did.  I love the idea of a space sim like this, so I'll keep an eye on the game, in case they add some more to it, but at this stage, it seems like there's not a whole lot to do.
MuffinMan
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1781


Reply #2 on: March 08, 2012, 05:40:19 PM

Who was it that did a Radicalthon type playthrough of the other space sim? They need to tackle this game now for my amusement. 

I'm very mysterious when I'm inside you.
cironian
Terracotta Army
Posts: 580

play his game!: solarwar.net


Reply #3 on: March 08, 2012, 06:32:53 PM

Eh, I've been to the moon already. I want to watch someone else sweat this time.
Kail
Terracotta Army
Posts: 2769


Reply #4 on: March 08, 2012, 06:55:33 PM

I suppose I could give it a shot (orbiting the moon, at least, I'm not sure you can land in the demo), but it would probably be less interesting than a hardcore space sim.  While this game is reasonably solid with physics, it ignores the most powerful force that binds us to the Earth: economics.  Apollo had serious limitations on what it could do, limitations I can ignore, like fuel limitations (add more boosters) mass limitations (add more boosters) and time limitations (things like food and air consumption are not modeled AFAIK).  I can build a ship with a trillion dollars worth of fuel, and just point it roughly at the moon and go.  Eyeball the steering, burn a new stage every hour or so and correct my course, fast forward time in between burns, and you could probably do it in a weekend without using a calculator.  I don't expect it would be terribly interesting to watch.

Much of that stuff is on their "to do" list though.
bhodi
Moderator
Posts: 6817

No lie.


Reply #5 on: March 08, 2012, 09:17:31 PM

KSP is one of my favorite games to re-examine every few months. I've successfully been to the moon and back using stock parts. It's coming along nicely, but it's still not "there" beyond beta yet, which is why I haven't really brought it up here. If you want more parts there are tons and tons of user-created pieces and people are already putting together space stations and such. But I'd really check back in a few months.
Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3212

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #6 on: March 08, 2012, 11:02:21 PM

This is pretty awesome.  Yeah, it's not complete and a bit thin in places, but it's definitely promising.  It's provided enough entertainment that I feel like they deserve the $15 donation/preorder (and in exchange I get to follow along during development).  I've had some hilariously spectacular failures and some not too horrible test flights.
bhodi
Moderator
Posts: 6817

No lie.


Reply #7 on: March 09, 2012, 09:42:19 AM

If you're "into" it, you might like Mechanical Jeb which adds some really handy space piloting features.
Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3212

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #8 on: March 09, 2012, 10:01:17 AM

I wasted a number of hours last night mucking about with the 0.14 build.  The Mechanical Jeb is on my "to try" list.

Presented for your consideration, a photo of the ill-fated X6 prototype moments before its destruction, crewed by the brave Gregrey Kerman, Bilford Kerman, and Billy-Bobald Kerman.


Also there's a pile of quality fan art over at the game's forum....  http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=140.0
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 10:05:13 AM by Quinton »
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


Reply #9 on: March 09, 2012, 10:11:01 AM

KSP is one of my favorite games to re-examine every few months. I've successfully been to the moon and back using stock parts. It's coming along nicely, but it's still not "there" beyond beta yet, which is why I haven't really brought it up here. If you want more parts there are tons and tons of user-created pieces and people are already putting together space stations and such. But I'd really check back in a few months.

Yeah I only brought it up due to updates, last time I looked, there was none of this orbit stuff, just make and launch. Hell, I don't think you could even adjust the grouping of the stages last I played, it was all build order. Now you can move them around in the list to set up different actions with in a stage.

I just figured it was time for a thread.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 10:15:09 AM by Mrbloodworth »

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3212

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #10 on: March 09, 2012, 10:33:43 AM

Notch could learn a few things about plugin API design from these guys...
Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3212

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #11 on: March 09, 2012, 03:35:11 PM

Okay, the MechJeb is totally game changing.  I actually managed to intercept the Mun on my first flight with the MechJeb... unfortunately I didn't have enough fuel to slow down so I intercepted it at well over 1000m/s... messy
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


Reply #12 on: March 09, 2012, 04:55:36 PM

Notch could learn a few things about plugin API design from these guys...

I'm down for making some parts. If anyone wants to code-em up.

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
bhodi
Moderator
Posts: 6817

No lie.


Reply #13 on: March 09, 2012, 07:32:32 PM

I would be remiss if I didn't post this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkzziGlbK1s

and also:


Getting to the Mun is actually pretty easy - launch due west, go about 10 degrees straight up and begin to heel down to 45 degrees when you hit about 12km. Once you hit about 40-50km, even it out and burn until your orbit stabilizes. (watch the map screen).

Then, just wait until the mun comes over the horizon, and start burning. You want your orbit to intersect forward about one third to one quarter of it's orbit. Then just cut your burn and drift. Once the mun is near, stabilize your orbit and descend. This is how one guy did it.

Can I interest you in a Dune Buggy and a Save Game Editor to teleport it directly to the Mun?


Note that in general, you will actually save fuel if you orbit once before heading directly out due to the Oberth Effect.. A somewhat less complex explanation along with KSP video evidence is here.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 07:40:32 PM by bhodi »
Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3212

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #14 on: March 10, 2012, 05:45:01 AM

Notch could learn a few things about plugin API design from these guys...

I'm down for making some parts. If anyone wants to code-em up.

I'm poking around with Visual C# and whatnot trying to understand how to make plugin coding go (windows programming is not my usual cup of tea).

For model stuff it looks like you want the KSP SDK from: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/download.php which includes a "partlab" program to preview your parts, and some (thin) docs about models and such.  

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/~kerbalsp/wiki/index.php?title=PartLab
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/~kerbalsp/wiki/index.php?title=CFG_File_Documentation
http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/~kerbalsp/wiki/index.php?title=Making_an_asset_from_start_to_finish

It looks like for building parts that have an existing behavior with some parameter tweaks and new models/textures, you don't need to write any code at all -- just fiddle with the textual .cfg file.

If you want a new class of part or new behaviours, that needs some C# code -- looks like you subclass an existing Part and override/extend methods for start/stop, state changes (like destruction), and simulation steps.

Getting questions answered about this in the official forums is a headache because the mods are extremely aggressive about squashing any discussion of decompiling/reverse engineering (which it turns out is rather trivial to do with C# assemblies) and there's no actual documentation on the public APIs/classes.  I suspect everyone developing modules *is* just picking the game apart with free C# inspect/disassemble tools but refraining from discussing it to avoid enraging the forum moderators. ^^

I will revise my statement to: if these guys actually *document* their API and put up some minimal getting started instructions, Notch could learn a few things from them.

Additional resources:
Code Snippets: http://kspwiki.nexisonline.net/wiki/Module_code_examples
MechJeb Source Code (GPL): http://svn.mumech.com/KSP/trunk/MuMechLib/
Energy Plugin w/ Source: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=7847.0  (enables: solar panels, fuel cells, ion engines, etc)

EDIT:  Installed the free version of Visual C# and compiling this stuff is a breeze.  It took all of five minutes to build a library project, grab the source for the Energy plugin and build the library, which worked fine with the game.   Turns out this C# stuff is pretty straightforward.  VC# has an object browser thing which shows classes/methods/fields exported by a library, so figuring out what classes exist and what their methods are is easy.

EDIT: Some Modeling Stuff

KSP Blender Tutorial: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=4032.0
KSP Blender Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C_6B2r7Rpk
KSP Blender Tips and Tricks: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=6109.0
Modeling Guidelines: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/~kerbalsp/wiki/index.php?title=Part_Modelling_Guidelines
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 08:01:12 PM by Quinton »
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


Reply #15 on: March 10, 2012, 10:00:33 AM

Offer still stands, if someone has a concept, put it here. Perhaps between all of us we can make it happen.  Model format is rather simple.

Should be fun.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 10:06:39 AM by Mrbloodworth »

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3212

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #16 on: March 10, 2012, 10:07:34 AM

I'm most interested in doing some kind of satellite deploy and capture and/or a space station.  Supposedly they're working on actual support for docking in the next version of the game -- right now it doesn't really model that.

Something that might be fun to try would be solar panels that unfold -- the initial model has them folded up against the side of the ship and then when you activate their stage they fold down and out.  If you can figure out how to make the objects for that I'd be happy to take a crack at writing some plugin code to drive it.

Maybe not quite as elaborate as this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRXbi3sQKWc
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


Reply #17 on: March 10, 2012, 10:12:20 AM

From what I have read ( in the last 5 min  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? ), I don't see much in the way of animations, so all animations would likely have to be from code/script. I shall dig deeper.

So possible projects:

Station parts.
Solar panels.


No bad ideas in brainstorming!

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3212

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #18 on: March 10, 2012, 10:20:11 AM

Does the model format allow for there to be subparts?  The code from the MechJeb plugin seems to fiddle with the model to do its animation:

Code:
    protected override void onPartFixedUpdate() {
        if (on && (onRotateSpeed != 0)) {
            transform.FindChild("model").FindChild(rotate_model).RotateAroundLocal(onRotateAxis, TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime * onRotateSpeed * (isSymmMaster() ? -1 : 1));
        }
        if ((keyRotateSpeed != 0) && Input.GetKey(rotateKey)) {
            transform.FindChild("model").FindChild(rotate_model).RotateAroundLocal(keyRotateAxis, TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime * keyRotateSpeed * (isSymmMaster() ? -1 : 1));
        }
        if ((keyRotateSpeed != 0) && Input.GetKey(revRotateKey)) {
            transform.FindChild("model").FindChild(rotate_model).RotateAroundLocal(keyRotateAxis, TimeWarp.fixedDeltaTime * keyRotateSpeed * (isSymmMaster() ? 1 : -1));
        }
    }

Which seems to make use of the Unity library. 
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


Reply #19 on: March 10, 2012, 11:06:37 AM

Should, yeah, I don't see why not.

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3212

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #20 on: March 10, 2012, 06:26:18 PM

Something else that might be nice would be some fairings -- parts that cover the parts above or below them in the stack and open up to reveal them.

http://www.esa.int/images/IOV-launch02.jpg

I'm thinking more unfold 3 or 5 slices rather than simply eject them (though ejection would be neat too -- not sure if we can spawn new objects... gotta tinker...)
Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3212

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #21 on: March 10, 2012, 06:57:03 PM

Have you had any luck creating a model and getting it loaded in-game?  Seems like PartLab may be out of date vs the 0.14 version game.  What software are you using?

EDIT: Confirmed that the Blender instructions work for exporting from the latest version of Blender.  Managed to load the TestCube.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 08:40:45 PM by Quinton »
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


Reply #22 on: March 10, 2012, 08:41:13 PM

I need to set some time for that. Mabye ill test some things tomorrow.

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Yoru
Moderator
Posts: 4611

the y master, king of bourbon


WWW
Reply #23 on: March 12, 2012, 07:14:20 AM

Yeah, I've been playing this since 0.8 - back when the only thing there was to do was slap together a basic rocket and try to get a decent circular orbit, way before map mode/varying density atmospheres/time warp. Needless to say, I've gotten pretty good at doing all the basic orbital maneuvers manually.

I've recently been experimenting with funky drop-tank-based rockets, in an effort to streamline my designs for greater efficiency.

My best lunar lander so far uses 3x5 liquid stages in the core rocket and a half-size liquid tank and small engine for the lander/return stage. Stringing the 3x5 tanks out so that I can drop each tank as it empties out lets me do orbital insertion, TLI, LOI and much of my lunar landing deceleration with just that core stage of 3x5 tanks, reserving the majority of the lander's fuel for landing/re-orbiting and ejecting towards Kerbin. Usually I have to do final deceleration for KOI with just the RCS, but then can get my periapsis below 70km allowing for nice, slow aerobraking.

I suppose the next thing to master will be orbital rendezvous.
bhodi
Moderator
Posts: 6817

No lie.


Reply #24 on: March 12, 2012, 01:04:05 PM

Something boring and generic like this is perfectly adequate to get you to the mun and back with fuel to spare:



The key to efficiency is to burn all your stacks at once, right from the start, and to force the fuel to flow inward so you can dump your outside empty stacks faster. There is no real reason to use solid rocket boosters, but if you want to, you can do something like below; make sure that you try and time the fuel stack going empty with the expiration of the solid rocket booster.



But honestly, they are almost more trouble than they are worth. Look at how ridiculously kerbal that second rocket looks! However, the first separates all but the central stack after altitude but before full stable orbit, and the second rocket achieves a stable orbit before separation so you have four (!!) full tanks plus your lander to get from kerbin orbit to mun, or, really, to absolutely anywhere in the kerbal system.

I don't really like the half size fuel tank; I find I like to over-engineer things and getting from the mun back with it by eyeball can sometimes be tricky. I wonder if you can go kerbin -> mun -> kerbin -> mun -> kerbin? Something to play with, for sure.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 01:07:32 PM by bhodi »
Yoru
Moderator
Posts: 4611

the y master, king of bourbon


WWW
Reply #25 on: March 12, 2012, 02:03:40 PM

Oh, I can easily get there and back by eyeball with those monstrosities. The challenge now is to do it with as little fuel as possible, and still land safely. Bonus points for KSC landings.

Edit: For reference, one of my more minimal-fueled designs that's made it there and back again.

« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 02:09:26 PM by Yoru »
bhodi
Moderator
Posts: 6817

No lie.


Reply #26 on: March 12, 2012, 02:56:14 PM

The problem with a design like that is that the separator's weight and drag offsets any gains you'd get by dumping the tanks one at a time. Those separators are goddamned heavy. You can absolutely get there and back with less than 15 tanks (plus lander) and 6 SRBs.

edit: plus stabilization cables, plus fuel lines, plus extra drag for every single outward section...
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 03:00:51 PM by bhodi »
Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3212

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #27 on: March 12, 2012, 11:46:48 PM

I've gotten there (and gone boom) with an upper stage with capsule, 2 large tanks, liguid engine, followed by a second stage with 2 large liquid tanks and engine and a third stage with 6 radial solid boosters.  The second and third stage fire simultaneously at launch.  the third stage separates when the solid boosters run dry and the rest of the second stage gets us into orbit.  I think with a little more thrust at launch and landing gear and RCS I'd be set.
Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3212

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #28 on: March 13, 2012, 02:44:15 AM

Unity Notes (KSP uses Unity and its objects like Part work within the Unity Framework)

from http://unity3d.com/support/documentation/ScriptReference/index.Writing_Scripts_in_Csharp_26_Boo.html
- Awake() called when scene is loaded
- Start() called before first Update()
- Update() called once per frame
- FixedUpdate() called once per physics engine step
- do not use constructors or initializers, use Awake/Start

- the above apparently route to onPartAwake() / onPartStart() / onPartUpdate() / onPartFixedUpdate() in the KSP Part class
- there is also onPartLoad()
- onPartActiveUpdate() / onPartActiveFixedUpdate() apparently are called when the part is active (after onPartUpdate())
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


Reply #29 on: March 13, 2012, 10:33:40 AM


Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Mrbloodworth
Terracotta Army
Posts: 15148


Reply #30 on: March 14, 2012, 10:19:43 AM

Hay, Quinton. Pm's.

Today's How-To: Scrambling a Thread to the Point of Incoherence in Only One Post with MrBloodworth . - schild
www.mrbloodworthproductions.com  www.amuletsbymerlin.com
Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3212

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #31 on: March 15, 2012, 02:54:11 PM

Mrbloodworth and I have founded F13 Aerospace to explore bringing the F13 Community's unique insights into spaceflight to the Kerbal Space Program.

Early this afternoon, Kerbal Standard Time, our brave test crew experienced a technical failure of the Panel Deployment System in low Kearth Orbit:


Bloodworth provided the models and textures, I spent a lot of time swearing at Visual Studio, C#, Win7, and other related technologies and started hacking on the plugin to make the panels unfold (the models are delivered fully stowed to reduce damage in transport).  Still got some issues to chase down, but it's entertaining progress.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 03:10:35 PM by Quinton »
Quinton
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3212

is saving up his raid points for a fancy board title


Reply #32 on: March 16, 2012, 03:28:17 PM

Source and Very-Alpha Plugin/Parts available from: http://f13aerospace.googlecode.com/
K9
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7435


Reply #33 on: March 16, 2012, 03:32:07 PM

Interesting

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
meteorite 101
Terracotta Army
Posts: 3


Reply #34 on: March 30, 2012, 07:05:07 PM

Mrbloodworth and I have founded F13 Aerospace to explore bringing the F13 Community's unique insights into spaceflight to the Kerbal Space Program.

Early this afternoon, Kerbal Standard Time, our brave test crew experienced a technical failure of the Panel Deployment System in low Kearth Orbit:


Bloodworth provided the models and textures, I spent a lot of time swearing at Visual Studio, C#, Win7, and other related technologies and started hacking on the plugin to make the panels unfold (the models are delivered fully stowed to reduce damage in transport).  Still got some issues to chase down, but it's entertaining progress.

Me wan't

me i have a download link please  Ohhhhh, I see.
Also dose any body know how to get a new mods for Kerbal space program and not from the officail forum
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6 Go Up Print 
f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  PC/Console Gaming  |  Topic: Kerbal Space Program!  
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.10 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC