Windows 8

[ghost]

Because random internet user's keyboards are gross. The mouse is, too, but at least that leaves me one clean hand free for facepalming.

Only if you think semen is gross and not super cool genetic material.

[Baldrake]

I'm usually a bit of a Microsoft booster (I even own a Windows Phone), but I can't help but feel they jumped the shark with this one.

I could kind of get it if the plan was to gradually phase out the desktop and have us work with the new environment uniquely. But Metro is missing too many things that are important for getting work done. For example, I don't get how I could possibly work without hierarchical folders. (Metro gives one level only.) I have literally dozens of projects on the go at one time, each in its own folder, and hundreds of archived projects that I may have to reactivate at some later point. Trying to do this with one level of nesting would be insane.

And the idea of being able to show only two apps at a time is fine on a 13" laptop, but silly on a 30" cinema display.

So desktop is going to have to be around indefinitely. The jarring shift between the desktop and Metro worlds is significantly increasing the complexity of the overall system. My mother in law is looking at a new computer, and I now realize she'd better get one before Win 8 ships, because I can't imagine explaining this dual OS interface thing to her.

I actually found myself browsing the Apple mac pages yesterday.

[Sky]

My dad is finally considering a mac, given all the little problems that have arisen over the years with his windows computers.

[ghost]

Mac is pretty nice.  I am largely convinced that the stability and usability stems largely from the fact that they severely restrict which hardware will run their OS, and thus they are able to make sure that drivers run the way they are supposed to.  One of the big issues with Windows is the shitton of different companies that make drivers that conflict with everything or don't run. 

I'm a little confused as to why MS isn't simply trying to update Windows 7 a little bit.  I'm a big fan of it, and even consider it preferable to OSX Lion in a lot of respects. 

[Baldrake]

Microsoft is betting that sales of traditional PCs have nowhere to go down, whereas mobile/tablet sales are going to continue exploding. Windows 8 is all about having an answer for tablet + phone.

Whether it's a good answer for tablet + phone is not so obvious.

In some ways, they had no choice. If they had just produced a beautiful tablet OS that didn't run real Windows apps, it would probably have been reviewed positively in the press, and sold about as well as Windows Phone does now.

But as an example of how badly the shark got jumped, just look at how Office works on Arm-based Windows 8 devices. It will be literally the only desktop app that runs. The whole desktop interface has been ported to ARM just for Office. If you want to open a Word doc, you go to the desktop. If you want to do literally anything else, you use Metro. If you have your own desktop app, on Arm, you're out of luck. It won't run.

[Hammond]

My Mom's laptop died so I convinced her to buy a Ipad instead of replacing it.  The only thing she uses it for is web browsing and email which it is perfect for.  She has  windows 7 desktop to do any actual typing, excel or major picture manipulation.  Personally I will probably end up going a similar route once windows 8 comes out with a Samsung Tablet or ASUS of some kind that is non ARM.  No way in hell I am going to update my desktop to it though.

[Kitsune]

Yeah, as a pure tablet interface it looks fantastic, better than iOS.  Being able to "stick" programs to the side while they still run is a nicer multitasking than iOS or Android.  But it's not good for an actual desktop computer with multiple interfaces beyond a touch screen.

[KallDrexx]

But as an example of how badly the shark got jumped, just look at how Office works on Arm-based Windows 8 devices. It will be literally the only desktop app that runs. The whole desktop interface has been ported to ARM just for Office. If you want to open a Word doc, you go to the desktop. If you want to do literally anything else, you use Metro. If you have your own desktop app, on Arm, you're out of luck. It won't run.

Not sure how true that is since the next version of office will be Metro.  They just haven't publically shown it off yet.

[Sky]

I was shopping for some new pcs for the public here, and with our new layout the desktops are really ugly and bulky (backs exposed, wires, etc). Especially when looking at the majority of computers, flat panel iMacs. So I looked over the all-in-one options and was surprised how many touch-screen options there are in that form factor.

A flat panel all-in-one with a 24" touch screen would probably be pretty cool with W8.

[Chimpy]

Oh god no I don't want to support touchscreens for our public stations. We have enough problems with the 8 touchscreens we have on our self-checkout stations. 

[Engels]

I personally cannot WAIT till I have to install touchscreens in my computer lab serving 400+ students! May have to install snotrags at each terminal.

[Sky]

Oh god no I don't want to support touchscreens for our public stations. We have enough problems with the 8 touchscreens we have on our self-checkout stations. 

I didn't buy any for the public! 

[MuffinMan]

The bodily fluids mentioned earlier are probably easier to clean off touchscreens than down in keyboards though.

[Lantyssa]

 

[Engels]

The bodily fluids mentioned earlier are probably easier to clean off touchscreens than down in keyboards though.

Sure, except of course, that the keyboards aren't going away either. Still, you have a point. TBH, I am pretty sure that my boss will never ever ever approve touchscreens for the lab unless the dean himself threatens him with physical violence. My boss' reaction to Windows 8 was priceless. After a minute of futzing about in the GUI, he looks up to me and says, 'What the fuck do I need all these buttons for?'. Of course, if he had his way, we'd all be using a terminal window and VI.

[Sky]

Actually, the terminal interface to our old catalog was much faster and easier to use than the fourth or fifth iteration of a 'windows' version (it's Java now). Slow, horrible layout and usability and still not compliant with most windows standards (for key shortcuts/cut'n'paste, etc).

[Baldrake]

But as an example of how badly the shark got jumped, just look at how Office works on Arm-based Windows 8 devices. It will be literally the only desktop app that runs. The whole desktop interface has been ported to ARM just for Office. If you want to open a Word doc, you go to the desktop. If you want to do literally anything else, you use Metro. If you have your own desktop app, on Arm, you're out of luck. It won't run.

Not sure how true that is since the next version of office will be Metro.  They just haven't publically shown it off yet.

Office 15 is more metro-like and is more touch friendly, but is not actually a Metro app. It will run under the desktop only.

[Chimpy]

Sky, What ILS are you guys using?

[Sky]

Sirsi-Dynix after they bought out DRA. The System folks never evaluated other products, like, say, Polaris, which is headquartered down the road a bit.

[Sheepherder]

The bodily fluids mentioned earlier are probably easier to clean off touchscreens than down in keyboards though.

Ideal solution is dishwasher safe keyboards.

[Chimpy]

Sirsi-Dynix after they bought out DRA. The System folks never evaluated other products, like, say, Polaris, which is headquartered down the road a bit.

Oh god Horizon. We just switched from them to Polaris. The Polaris software is much better but my god was their implementation management was total shit.

[Sky]

We're on Unicorn/Workflows/I think they call it Symphony now (every calls it Workflows still).

[luckton]

If any of you happen to have this installed on a 10" netbook, they pushed out a new Intel driver that forces 1024x768 reso support.  Looks kinda akward at first, but at least now I can play around with the new Start menu.

[ghost]

Anyone got the real copy of this yet?  

I'm pleasantly surprised at the pricing of it.  It more closely matches what Apple has done with their OS upgrades.  

Edit:  Nevermind.  Apparently it's a promotional thing so people will adopt before they find out how shitty it is.   

[KallDrexx]

I've been using Windows 8 as my primary home and work OS for the last few months (since the RTM came out).  I love it, but the only thing that I use Metro for is the start menu.  Honestly, I find the start menu much easier to quickly find items than on the current start menu with tiny icons.  

Other than that, metro doesn't get in the way at all, and it *feels* much faster in real world usage than windows 7 on the same computer (I used to have to dual boot on my home laptop due to an IE plugin).  

*edit* other than the shitty music and photo viewer.  Those things need to die in a fire and you will need to install some 3rd party stuff for those.

[ghost]

That's good to know.  I'm thinking about upgrading now due to the price incentive.

[Mrbloodworth]

Not even considering it until Security update 2. Then, ill think about it.

[Merusk]

I heard reports that some standard programs aren't even functioning in Windows 8.  No details on what those programs actually *were* though, so that's sort of useless information.  My understanding was something about the tile menus fucking things up.

[HaemishM]

I just want to stab Microsoft in the eye for releasing yet another fucking version of Internet Explorer I'm going to have to take into account when I create web pages. FUCK YOU, IE 9.

[kildorn]

I just want to stab Microsoft in the eye for releasing yet another fucking version of Internet Explorer I'm going to have to take into account when I create web pages. FUCK YOU, IE 9.

We promise this one obeys web standards! Honest! Even the real ones! (*)

(*) Web Standards are defined as the IE9 Rendering Standards, version 1. Service packs may have other rendering behavior.


We had a web developer quit at my last gig because he got offered a slight pay cut and a contractual promise not to have to code for IE ever again. Took that in a heartbeat.

[KallDrexx]

Honestly, our front-end developers experience more rendering issues with Firefox these days than IE 9

[HaemishM]

Honestly, our front-end developers experience more rendering issues with Firefox these days than IE 9

They must not be using HTML5 or CSS3.

[JWIV]

Can I blame my Windows 7 desktop blowing the fuck up today on Windows 8 (as opposed to the stupid random power strike at my house)

[KallDrexx]

Honestly, our front-end developers experience more rendering issues with Firefox these days than IE 9

They must not be using HTML5 or CSS3.

Maybe not since we have to support IE 8 as well.

[ghost]

I love how Microsoft continues to troll you guys.