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Author Topic: Patch 134: Ziggs  (Read 4007 times)
statisticalfool
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on: January 27, 2012, 10:42:35 PM

Gameplay preview: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/ziggs-patch-preview-gameplay-changes

Lee Sin Q nerf, no more crit chance in offense masteries, Jax buff (E lasts for 2 seconds, can disable manually to apply stun)

Ziggs reveal: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/ziggs-hexplosives-expert-revealed
Hoax
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Reply #1 on: January 30, 2012, 05:06:32 PM

That's a stupid Jax change, he will be overpowered. As usual Riot doesn't give anyone time to test things out and make it work before changing something they just fucking reworked last patch.

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HaemishM
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Reply #2 on: January 30, 2012, 05:10:43 PM

Shit, Jax in capable hands is already a goddamn terror.

Rasix
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Reply #3 on: January 30, 2012, 05:15:54 PM

I haven't seen him a lot since the rework, and mostly he just gets pooped on when he does make an appearance. Still, on demand stun.  Makes his combo even more reliable than it used to be.  However, is he just too fragile for top now without sacrificing a lot of damage? 

Interested in the new champ.  Don't think I'll throw money at it, but it's interesting in a way that Gragas is to me. Looks really pokey.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 05:25:54 PM by Rasix »

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Reply #4 on: January 31, 2012, 07:50:22 AM

There's a few item changes coming too

The new item looks like a nice earlier alternative to Randuin's Omen for support characters.

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HaemishM
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Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 09:23:58 AM

I've seen Jax in one game since the change, and my god, he RAPED my team. Just utter carnage. It wasn't a good team, but he was almost unkillable without 3-5 guys focusing him and chances are he'd kill one before he went down.

EDIT: He's also on free rotation this week, so expect to see his ass a bit more.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 09:27:22 AM by HaemishM »

statisticalfool
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Reply #6 on: February 01, 2012, 08:17:42 AM

jakonovski
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Reply #7 on: February 01, 2012, 08:29:02 AM

Because I couldn't beat Jax, I decided to play him. First up I got two 250ish crits in the face from GP at level 1 and died. Now, after a few games he's really starting to shine. He's a great jungler too.

Also re. the patch notes. Why did they have to nerf Sivir like that?
Rasix
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Reply #8 on: February 01, 2012, 08:31:34 AM

Also re. the patch notes. Why did they have to nerf Sivir like that?

Tournament performance would be my guess.  She's been on quite the tear.

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statisticalfool
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Reply #9 on: February 01, 2012, 08:49:00 AM

Yeah, essentially, they're playing whack-a-mole with the AD carries.
Vayne has disappeared, so now it's Sivir; she went 10-1 at Kings of Europe (and 6-7 at Kiev, it must be noted)

The boomerang nerf I can totally get behind, her early damage was pretty ridiculous.

But the On The Hunt change? It's a huge nerf to her split push abilities, which is sad face.

Mosesandstick
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Reply #10 on: February 01, 2012, 09:48:05 AM

Sivir was also tearing it up in solo queue, which is why they started picking her in tournies. Her rediculous win rate meant a nerf was likely.
Hoax
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Reply #11 on: February 01, 2012, 10:04:01 AM

I'm never a fan of these patches but I'm decidedly against the methods Riot uses to balance the game, too many micro nerfs to whatever is FOTM. If they left everything as is I promise you that in 2 months time some of the supposedly top tier champs would not be considered top tier anymore but we'll never know because instead of letting a meta develop Riot fucking changes everything every other week. Business as usual.

Gotta say though I'm never unhappy with what % of champs are viable picks so it seems to be working, for now, but I think its getting harder and harder for me to enjoy the game as a result of the constant changes.

Believe me when I say that next Sivir will get nerfed again.

Predictably bad patch from Riot. Jax gets buffs before the playerbase has even taken him for a spin and determined how good he is post rework. Another ad carry gets nerfed once again we could have just not nerfed MF and Caitlyn all those months ago and we would have not needed to nerf Graves Vayne and now Sivir. Oh yeah we could have not taken Ez out back and fucking raped him, one of the champs everyone felt was the most fun to play and now he's just shit because it had to be done even though the powerlevels of every other ad has at one point been that high without people ever being tempted to run double ad teams? Nope. Could have saved the community 20 fucking tweaks minimum lowering the powerlevel of all the ad's unless that's always been their intention which seems stupid because its going to end up where ad's literally ignore team fights until they get second or third item because the champ is so weak without gold.

Two items that are "for supports / tanks" hrmmmm was anyone aware of a weakness in tanky champions and tankiness in general? I wasn't. This seems like it could go really wrong. How many times was HOG nerfed? The new Locket will see use almost immediately. I wouldn't be surprised if we see two per team. Expect it to get nerfed just like the old Locket.

My bet, new Locket is nerfed next patch if it isn't changed pre-patch. There are jungler nerfs incomming. Can't really say who it will be first. Guessing Maokai gets it in the next couple of patches.

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statisticalfool
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Reply #12 on: February 01, 2012, 11:45:16 AM

As a belated response, I think that Riot's constant tweaks are annoying, but that I would be surprised if it was not an explicit goal to let as many characters be viable as possible, and with regards to that, I think it's both a good goal for a f2p/rotating champ game like this is, and they're doing a good job.

Luckily, not upset about the Morg nerfs, because, honestly, when do I get a chance to play her anymore?

Lakov_Sanite
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Reply #13 on: February 01, 2012, 11:53:50 AM

As a belated response, I think that Riot's constant tweaks are annoying, but that I would be surprised if it was not an explicit goal to let as many characters be viable as possible, and with regards to that, I think it's both a good goal for a f2p/rotating champ game like this is, and they're doing a good job.

Luckily, not upset about the Morg nerfs, because, honestly, when do I get a chance to play her anymore?



I just never got how she became the default "op champ" I mean she's good but moreso than GP or amu? Seems like she's always the first ban and it makes me scratch my head.

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Rasix
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Reply #14 on: February 01, 2012, 12:12:27 PM

Removing crit mastery will slow any demand for GP nerfs.  Seeing him banned at my scrubish level a lot now anyways.

Amummu? Que?  Almost never see him and when I do, they almost always suck.  Nonexistent in the competitive scene as well.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 12:19:17 PM by Rasix »

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Reply #15 on: February 01, 2012, 12:21:17 PM

Amumu was good like 2 years ago with AOE death teams.

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Thrawn
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Reply #16 on: February 01, 2012, 12:25:58 PM

Amumu was GOD like 2 years ago with AOE death teams.

Ohhhhh, I see.


Morg is just really good, always has been.  She has an aoe farming skill, she has a ranged root, she has a shield from cc, she has an aoe ult that stuns, she has built in spell vamp to stay in lane forever.  She's been nerfed many many times and she's still good.  Solo mid Morg will almost always get good farm and it rarely matters who you play against her, you won't be able to kill her, gank her, or stop her from farming.  She can just shield what you throw at her, root you in return, and cast a pool on the wave.  Then she laughs and walks away as spell vamp heals her and she gets last hits on the entire wave without even being near it.

There are jungler nerfs incomming. Can't really say who it will be first. Guessing Maokai gets it in the next couple of patches.

Lee Sin seems the obvious one unless he ate it this patch?  Also, you need to get a job at Riot Hoax.  ACK!
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 12:28:41 PM by Thrawn »

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Hoax
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Reply #17 on: February 01, 2012, 04:33:37 PM

That comment is in reaction the Skarner nerfs and the now Lee Sin nerfs that came this patch. Looks like the junglers are going to go through a cycle. All hail the re-rise of the bruiser because everyone else has been nerfed and they are getting two new items that are very strong if you have mulitple tanky dps champs.

Riot is really really good at making balance changes but their overall philosophy on how to achieve balance is fucking short sighted and stupid. I'm not sure anything can help them now. I hope that the next generation of champs will be superior to the one that supposedly just ended (highlighted by tanky dps and spammable non mana abilities) according to Riot posts but its going to be almost immpossible to compete with the inertia that all these constant micro patches create for more micro patches.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 04:36:03 PM by Hoax »

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Thrawn
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Reply #18 on: February 01, 2012, 04:34:23 PM

That comment is in reaction the Skarner nerfs and the now Lee Sin nerfs that came this patch. Looks like the junglers are going to go through a cycle. All hail the re-rise of the bruiser because everyone else has been nerfed and they are getting two new items that are very strong if you have mulitple tanky dps champs.

Bot lane Leona/Jarvin will destroy all.  Heartbreak

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Hoax
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Reply #19 on: February 01, 2012, 04:37:44 PM

Yeah I really wonder what Goose thinks about these two new items. Feels like that lane just got insane. Leona can pick up HOG then build it into a sustain aura plus turret dive shield item? FML.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Mosesandstick
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Reply #20 on: February 01, 2012, 06:40:21 PM

Iron Solari's shield does not stack, but there's no debuff AFAIK. At level 18 it's a 230 shield to all teammates. I'm not going to say that's OP without seeing it in action, but there's a definite possibility for abuse with stacking. At least I think a couple of these could seriously hurt an AOE team.

Riot's balancing philosophy on one hand is kind of wierd, but on the other hand extremely succesful. In every tournament for a long time, the number of champions played has been significant. The roles that get pigeon holed the most seem to be the support, the jungler and the carry (in that order imho). Riot has always been willing to nerf FOTM champions and I'm not sure it's that bad. At the very least it keeps people playing different champions.
Margalis
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Reply #21 on: February 01, 2012, 10:12:41 PM

There are simply too many champions who fill the same role. If you look at someone like Blitz or Singed they feel very unique, nobody really fills the Singed role except Singed. But when it comes to stuff like AD carry there are like 10+ guys who all do basically the same thing. At any given point some of them are going to be better or at least more popular. And playing the different ADs does not feel particularly different.

For the most part bot lane also lacks strong counter-picks. There are some (mostly involving Vayne and Cait, since they are at the range extremes) but if you pick someone like Trist or Graves there aren't many ways you can lose handily.

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ezrast
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Reply #22 on: February 02, 2012, 12:13:24 AM

Maybe it's just because I've played a lot of bottom lane, but I feel like each AD brings something unique, if subtle, to the team fight stage in a way that a lot of top lanes really don't. Kog forces plays with his pokes, Cait zones with traps, Ashe has a mean initiate, Graves splits up the team with smoke, etc. On the other hand, when teams are squaring off against each other I don't really care whether the enemy bruiser is Xin Zhao, Renekton, Irelia, Jax, Pantheon, Garen, or Riven - they're all going to affect the fight in basically the same way.

In lane ADs are samey because their play emphasizes right-clicking and they're so focused on farming. But the tanky melee with one gap closer, one cc, and one sustain/defensive ability is the most boring, homogeneous role in my opinion.

I would like to see more unconventional bottom lane picks though.
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