Predictions: 1m+ players 3 days out; how about in January 2013?

[Wolf]

you might be right, I'm not going to argue, I didn't make the movie. I'm saying that that's an issue that exists and is tied into the whole reponsivness discussion, this movie illustrates it well, even if it's only showing how it works in wow in the first part. It's easily reproduceable in TOR, and I can give concrete examples of how it's affecting my gameplay from my last night of play.

[tmp]

I did some testing of that meantime (thought could only use smuggler's 2 sec heal rather than a 1.5 sec cast)  I'd say generally the respone was quite fine in my experience -- even if i started moving right as the cast was about to end, i'd get the "interrupted" note from client but the heal would still go off. However, there seems to be annoying bug in the client which often prevents progress bar from appearing on sub-sequent casts -- the ability fires but you get no indication of that. When the ability is being induced "blindly" like that it's very easy to interrupt it because you lack the cue just how long exactly the cast is going to yet last.

[disKret]

I did some testing of that meantime (thought could only use smuggler's 2 sec heal rather than a 1.5 sec cast)  I'd say generally the respone was quite fine in my experience -- even if i started moving right as the cast was about to end, i'd get the "interrupted" note from client but the heal would still go off. However, there seems to be annoying bug in the client which often prevents progress bar from appearing on sub-sequent casts -- the ability fires but you get no indication of that. When the ability is being induced "blindly" like that it's very easy to interrupt it because you lack the cue just how long exactly the cast is going to yet last.

Try with mounting up.

[Wolf]

The missing cast bar is a different issue, so is the channel activiating, the cast bar showing, and no damage going through to the mob.

I had the the interrupt show up a couple of times yesterday with a 2s trooper heal, on a boss mob that had fire to move out of.

[tmp]

Hmm yeah, the mount thing definitely acts quite different, it drops back to walk even if i move a split second after the bar is complete. Think the whole thing they'd doing with spawning a new model and whatnot is playing a role here.

[taolurker]

I was thinking this had to do with running vs walking, and possibly the sprint ability. Seeing as I don't have the game I can't exactly test it, but the animation for moving/strafing could be what's causing this interrupt.

I continually keep wondering if anyone who beta tested this game actually submitted bug reports, especially with the numerous issues I've been reading about on forums since my beta weekend experience. I saw numerous bugs I submitted the second stress/beta weekend (when I actually got into the game), but honestly put most of the action delays, animation timing and poor responses I was having into the category of "massive lag" with how busy the servers were at that time.

Shame there's no combat log, or it might be easier to detect some of this shit.

[Maledict]

I was thinking this had to do with running vs walking, and possibly the sprint ability. Seeing as I don't have the game I can't exactly test it, but the animation for moving/strafing could be what's causing this interrupt.

I continually keep wondering if anyone who beta tested this game actually submitted bug reports, especially with the numerous issues I've been reading about on forums since my beta weekend experience. I saw numerous bugs I submitted the second stress/beta weekend (when I actually got into the game), but honestly put most of the action delays, animation timing and poor responses I was having into the category of "massive lag" with how busy the servers were at that time.

Shame there's no combat log, or it might be easier to detect some of this shit.

You can pretty much guarantee under these circumstances that these things were bug reported to *hell* and back. It always comes down to a choice of whether you put the resources in to fix the bug, or concentrate on hitting your street date and fix it later. If the bug isn't game breaking, they probably chose to leave it till later.

[Zetor]

Random example (not responsiveness-related) of beta bug reporting effectiveness: the level 50 sage ability 'Unity' is supposed to be a defensive cooldown that reduces damage taken by 50% both for the sage and the companion. Only problem is, it actually makes them both take 50% extra damage. This was bugged countless of times in the last 6 months of beta/live, and it's still not fixed... it can't be THAT hard to fix, can it?

re the responsiveness thing: it's compounded by UI issues. Sometimes an ability appears to fire (you get a cast/channel bar and an animation) but it actually doesn't. Sometimes the casting bar will disappear if you try to movecast. Sometimes the enemy's casting bar (above their target) will disappear if you're using a focus target. Etc.

[Nebu]

The UI bugs all the time in battlegrounds.  I can't even begin to tell you how many times I've had to reset the UI because the respawn button didn't work.

This game has tons of potential, but is shooting itself in the foot.  Between bugs, broken mechanics, poorly balanced classes, and a complete lack of an endgame, they have limited their long-term success. 

[Sky]

I liked the whole bad acid trip vibe of Voss.

Me, too. Though

[Ingmar]

Well...

[Hayduke]

The more I play it the less I like the way they went with animations.  I understand their point of view, they wanted to make combat feel more kinetic by having the game respect combat animations.  But when the castbars and GCDs don't respect animations it just feels like a weird mix.  WoW and WAR had this solid rhythm where you felt like you were playing to a metronome because every ability fired off the same regardless of animation.  You had to watch your cast bar or your hotbar to follow the combat, but it's better than having to watch your castbar, your hotbar, and your animations to make sense out of combat because every ability is different and when you get what feels like are 30 fucking abilities that's a lot to keep track of.

It makes stupid differences into big differences as well.  As an Imperial Agent for instance you can stun people while moving.  But as a smuggler, you have to be rooted to pull off the same skill.  Yeah the nutkick animation was cool the first few times I saw it, but now I'd rather it was just more usable.  Just way too many abilities where the animation is focused on the windup time.

[Samprimary]

Their animations CAN work, they really can. They just have to adopt the same sort of Input is King system that world of warcraft trusts its clients with. You press a button with the gcd off, you immediately get a registration of your decision. I think they may be adopting the idea wholesale in 1.1.

[Der Helm]

I cancelled my sub immediatly after setting it up (just in case I forget about it later and pay more than I wanted to)

Now I am not sure if I want to renew it for another month or if I want to wait until they fix a few of the major issues (PvP brackets ffs).


fakeedit: Had to look up the past tense of "to cancel"... English major ftw. 

[UnSub]

fakeedit: Had to look up the past tense of "to cancel"... English major ftw. 

No problems - none of us native English speakers would of picked you up on it.

[Der Helm]

No problems - none of us native English speakers would of picked you up on it.

 

;)

[Lakov_Sanite]

Well played.

[Hawkbit]

I'm out.  It is good for what it is, but I just need to accept that I'm no longer a gamer of this genre.  Those staying, I wish you the best. 

Things I would have done differently as a designer:

1.  Four stories instead of eight, but each twice as long.
2.  No side quests, no errands.  Literally no quests but the story, which takes a player from 1-50. 
3.  The story should be single player; there should be 5x the amount of flashpoints for groups, which should be 30min max experiences.
4.  For all the money spent on development, VO work and story, they utterly failed to put together a game that innovates, even on a technical level.  Missed opportunity.
5.  Lots and lots of little things, all mentioned somewhere in the peeve threads that exist around here. 

Fwiw, all three stories that I participated in were good, but they weren't engaging enough for me to sit through the terrible zones of Nar Shadda and Balmorra.  Hell, I never made it past Typhon on my Knight because of how boring and broken up that zone is.

I knew what I was buying, so I don't have remorse.  But I really can't see myself coming back again.  I am disappointed, though.  I really wanted this to hook me, but it just didn't. 

[Montague]

Not going to cancel my sub, but I haven't logged in on my main in about a week. I poopsocked for a bit to get my legacy name and third companion, went to Taris and boom... just like that I've lost all desire to play. I don't have a laundry list of complaints but I've a feeling that the constant inconveniences of the crap interface and bugs has finally worn on me.

More seriously, I think the lack of impact from itemization is really dragging me down. In Vanilla WoW, if you outfit yourself with good quality gear for your level and got some consumables you could make the levelling curve a bit easier. Also as you got more abilities and more powerful abilities, levelling got that much easier. In SWTOR, I can have dual purple hilts, blue gear and mods with a smattering of purples here and there and still be getting my ass kicked to the point I have to use defensive cooldowns and 8 or 9 abilities just to make it through simple fights, much less heroics with a healer.

I was rather vehement in beta about keeping the game difficulty somewhat high because WoW's faceroll mode levelling was so damn boring, but now faced with another few quests of frantically mashing buttons in order to kill shit before I hit a quarter health, it's so far in the other direction that I just can't seem to bother with it. The feeling of actually growing more powerful as you level simply isn't there for me, at least on the Sith Marauder.

[tmp]

More seriously, I think the lack of impact from itemization is really dragging me down. In Vanilla WoW, if you outfit yourself with good quality gear for your level and got some consumables you could make the levelling curve a bit easier. Also as you got more abilities and more powerful abilities, levelling got that much easier. In SWTOR, I can have dual purple hilts, blue gear and mods with a smattering of purples here and there and still be getting my ass kicked to the point I have to use defensive cooldowns and 8 or 9 abilities just to make it through simple fights, much less heroics with a healer.

Considering the difference between good gear and lack thereof can mean a difference of up to couple k hp, some 5-10% damage mitigation or similar difference in damage... it can probably play quite a bigger role than you think. Definitely "a bit easier" at least, especially when the same effect also affects the companion.

[Paelos]

I was rather vehement in beta about keeping the game difficulty somewhat high because WoW's faceroll mode levelling was so damn boring, but now faced with another few quests of frantically mashing buttons in order to kill shit before I hit a quarter health, it's so far in the other direction that I just can't seem to bother with it. The feeling of actually growing more powerful as you level simply isn't there for me, at least on the Sith Marauder.

I got a good chuckle from that. 

[Nevermore]

I was rather vehement in beta about keeping the game difficulty somewhat high because WoW's faceroll mode levelling was so damn boring, but now faced with another few quests of frantically mashing buttons in order to kill shit before I hit a quarter health, it's so far in the other direction that I just can't seem to bother with it. The feeling of actually growing more powerful as you level simply isn't there for me, at least on the Sith Marauder.

I got a good chuckle from that. 

Hoisted with his own petard!

[Miasma]

1.  Four stories instead of eight, but each twice as long.
2.  No side quests, no errands.  Literally no quests but the story, which takes a player from 1-50. 

I like my class story (sith warrior) but I also like most of the planet plotline quests, the ones that actually advance the conflicts themselves.  Some are better than others but they are all superior to the random collect type quests.  One of the things that got me through Taris was the planet quest empire side where you have a psychotic sith woman as a rival at each step.  Since the planet quests feel like they are actually doing something I like them a lot more.  I wish they could come up with a third significant plotline so that you never got a dead end collect/destroy type quest (you would still get collect/destroy but there would be some overriding purpose to them).

I defintely stumble on some planets, I sat idle on Alderaan for a week before deciding to just get it over with.  An unfair comparison to WoW is that there are always two level appropriate zones that are very different to go through (at least 1-60) so if you don't like a zone you can just choose the other.

[Miasma]

And now my class story just got even better, can't finish it in three days so I have cancelled by cancellation :) .  I imagine it will be done in a week so I will start playing my bounty hunter or Imperial agent afterwards.  Then I won't be able to quit until that is done either...

[Hawkbit]

I defintely stumble on some planets, I sat idle on Alderaan for a week before deciding to just get it over with.  An unfair comparison to WoW is that there are always two level appropriate zones that are very different to go through (at least 1-60) so if you don't like a zone you can just choose the other.

That's a very good point, and I hadn't really thought of WoW in that way until I started comparing it to post-2004 games.  Vanilla WoW, while it did have a plethora of issues, felt like more of a world and less of a 'leveling experience'.  Then BC came along, and while sales improved, player choice was reigned.  More recent games like RIFT and SWTOR come to mind as purely leveling experiences, with all sense of open world demolished.

Maybe all these games are copying the wrong parts of WoW.  

[Lantyssa]

Maybe all these games are copying the wrong parts of WoW.  

Been saying that for a while now...

[Nebu]

Maybe all these games are copying the wrong parts of WoW.  

Been saying that for a while now...

Maybe the two of you could point out the 'right' parts of WoW that they're missing.  I didn't care for WoW.  I see moving away from the Blizzard model as a good thing, particularly for the MMO industry.

[Lantyssa]

Quality of Life and Polish, for beginners.  It's not like I'm a DIKU fan-girl.

[Paelos]

I'd copy WoW's AH. All of it.

[Numtini]

I'd copy WoW's AH. All of it.

EQ2's bazaar is a lot better.

[ajax34i]

Staying subbed, for now.  And yes, the AH search features, ability/combat responsiveness, and UI / mods are things they should have copied.  On the other hand, I think they improved upon WoW with the companion system, social points / grouping rewards, per-planet currency system, and voice-acting.  If they stay on track with their patches and fix the bugs fast, the game will probably be a good contender to WoW. 

Once they do that, they'll only have to deal with ongoing class re-balances and itemization issues, but all MMOs have that ongoing.

[Thrawn]

....per-planet currency system, ....

Surely you don't mean the terrible commendation system.  I think I bought a few upgrades before I left Coursant and then never cared about them again since the selection to buy with them was rarely any good.  I mostly just bought minor modification upgrades to blow all my commendations before I left a planet.

[Rendakor]

I like the commendation system; it introduces players into token based gear purchases at an early level, so that the system isn't so weird when you hit the cap.

[tmp]

Surely you don't mean the terrible commendation system.  I think I bought a few upgrades before I left Coursant and then never cared about them again since the selection to buy with them was rarely any good.  I mostly just bought minor modification upgrades to blow all my commendations before I left a planet.

Since decent part of the gear offered is orange, there's quite a bit of interesting stuff to buy on pretty much each planet. On the other hand pricing on some of the items is perhaps set too high -- going through the main planet storyline gives you enough only for ~single item* or a few of the cheap mod/enhancement mods. And the stuff that isn't long term gain (blue items and all random loot boxes) could also use price slash, imo.

*) and that's if you actually select comendations as rewards, generally at the expense of your companion gear upgrades.

[Wolf]

....per-planet currency system, ....

Surely you don't mean the terrible commendation system.  I think I bought a few upgrades before I left Coursant and then never cared about them again since the selection to buy with them was rarely any good.  I mostly just bought minor modification upgrades to blow all my commendations before I left a planet.

You missed out. I have 3 companies and me tricked out, based solely on the badge system. It's pretty amazing for people like me - I get to min/max up to 6 characters