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Author Topic: Prometheus  (Read 21239 times)
jgsugden
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Reply #385 on: May 08, 2017, 01:58:05 PM

There is a core to Alien that works and a sense of nostalgia that can be capitalized on - but I think we're ready for a reboot that learns from the weaknesses of the earlier films.

I miss Good Eats.  *Sniff*
Velorath
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Reply #386 on: May 09, 2017, 09:56:10 PM

In anticipation of the new Aliens - I've rewatched all of it, and I'm now on Prometheus.

This movie is far and away the best in the series. In fact, watching them in release order really shows how incredibly poorly the old movies aged. Aliens was way worse than I remember. Alien 3 and Resurrection were essentially garbage. Alien was the best of the original 4 and still... not very good. undecided

Forgot to ask before, but out of curiosity, which version of Alien 3 did you watch?
schild
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Reply #387 on: May 09, 2017, 10:28:15 PM

Directors cut based on the words on...  the bluray.
MediumHigh
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Reply #388 on: May 11, 2017, 06:35:16 AM

schild likes some over written bullshit movie for edge lords? Surprised. I mean I wished I liked Prometheus. But I can't be 13 again.

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schild
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Reply #389 on: May 11, 2017, 06:38:51 AM

prometheus being for edgelords is new.

what particular narrative in the movie puts it so close to the edge that its for "edgelords?"
MediumHigh
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Reply #390 on: May 11, 2017, 06:46:01 AM

Idiots scientist goes to the edge of nowhere to find their alien jesus for no particular reason besides having daddy issues. Than they all die one by one, because I-robot has daddy issues. Than they discover sleeping alien god who never wanted them like a dad regretting not pulling out your mom and proceeds to kill more people like there isn't already two nonsensical alien monstrosities rampaging outside. Than everyone dies, no one learns anything and we don't even get a good sequel bat. The end. Watch that movie with Lincoln Park as the sound track.

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schild
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Reply #391 on: May 11, 2017, 06:56:09 AM

what
Ironwood
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Reply #392 on: May 11, 2017, 07:02:16 AM

Also, what the fuck is an Edgelord ?

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
Merusk
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Badge Whore


Reply #393 on: May 11, 2017, 07:06:51 AM

Also, what the fuck is an Edgelord ?

Quote
A poster on an Internet forum, (particularly 4chan) who expresses opinions which are either strongly nihilistic, ("life has no meaning," or Tyler Durden's special snowflake speech from the film Fight Club being probably the two main examples) or contain references to Hitler, Nazism, fascism, or other taboo topics which are deliberately intended to shock or offend readers.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=edgelord

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Amarr HM
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Reply #394 on: May 11, 2017, 07:25:22 AM

Really need to change that 'medium' to 'totally'.

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schild
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Reply #395 on: May 11, 2017, 07:27:25 AM

that was maybe one of the worst descriptions of a movie i've ever read
HaemishM
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Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


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Reply #396 on: May 11, 2017, 08:35:05 AM

Also, terrible use of the word 'than' when he means 'then.'

GRAMMAR SNAKE HO!!!!!

Ironwood
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Reply #397 on: May 11, 2017, 09:13:49 AM

Also, what the fuck is an Edgelord ?

Quote
A poster on an Internet forum, (particularly 4chan) who expresses opinions which are either strongly nihilistic, ("life has no meaning," or Tyler Durden's special snowflake speech from the film Fight Club being probably the two main examples) or contain references to Hitler, Nazism, fascism, or other taboo topics which are deliberately intended to shock or offend readers.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=edgelord

Thank you kindly.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
HaemishM
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Prevent all damage that would be dealt to you and other troops you control.


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Reply #398 on: May 11, 2017, 09:29:34 AM

TBF, I had to go look it up too.

schild
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Reply #399 on: May 11, 2017, 11:19:16 AM

I didn't. I love the term. It just doesn't fit here at all.
BobtheSomething
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Reply #400 on: May 11, 2017, 05:00:10 PM

This conversation is better than the movie Prometheus. 
schild
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Reply #401 on: May 11, 2017, 06:27:19 PM

It's also more fun than Alien/Aliens.

ʘ‿ʘ
Riggswolfe
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Reply #402 on: May 12, 2017, 10:18:00 PM

I'm just going to say this.

Anyone who seriously says Prometheus is a better film than Alien and/or Aliens has lost all credibility as a person that understands film making in any capacity but particularly script writing.

The script for Prometheus is so awful that it is almost mind blowing how bad it is. The directing isn't awful but it is very "off" and the editing isn't particularly good either.  It and Robin Hood coming so close together made me seriously question if Ridley Scott had, at some point, lost all talent or had some kind of stroke that caused him to lose the ability to understand good film making. It's like Ridley Scott's mind was scooped out and replaced by Zach Snyder's. Prometheus was Alien if directed by Zach Snyder.

I can only surmise that Schild is engaging in some kind of elaborate troll to get a rise out of people.


"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
Amarr HM
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Reply #403 on: May 13, 2017, 04:57:39 AM

To put things in perspective his favourite movie of all time is (was?) Independence day.

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schild
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Reply #404 on: May 13, 2017, 10:28:05 AM

ID4? What? I just really like Jeff Goldblum. Who doesn't.

My favorite film of all time is Clockwork Orange. Followed closely by Shawshank Redemption. Though I watch the latter like five times a year and Clockwork like once every 3-5 years.

I'm just going to say this.

Anyone who seriously says Prometheus is a better film than Alien and/or Aliens has lost all credibility as a person that understands film making in any capacity but particularly script writing.

The script for Prometheus is so awful that it is almost mind blowing how bad it is. The directing isn't awful but it is very "off" and the editing isn't particularly good either.  It and Robin Hood coming so close together made me seriously question if Ridley Scott had, at some point, lost all talent or had some kind of stroke that caused him to lose the ability to understand good film making. It's like Ridley Scott's mind was scooped out and replaced by Zach Snyder's. Prometheus was Alien if directed by Zach Snyder.

I can only surmise that Schild is engaging in some kind of elaborate troll to get a rise out of people.

This requires one views Alien as a franchise as something worth more than eating popcorn. It is not that for me. Across the board, the scripts for all of the Alien movies are bad. Rating degrees of bad is a silly exercise, though I'm indulging it simply because I'm watching a whole fuckload of horror franchises. I'm not even sure why one would argue they're otherwise.
Khaldun
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Reply #405 on: May 13, 2017, 10:55:51 AM

When you say "script", what is it that you mean?

Do you mean plot? Do you mean dialogue? Do you mean the combination of plot, described visuals, characterization and dialogue in a series of scenes?

Plot for Alien is not really very different than a number of other jump-scare films. I wouldn't call it distinguished, but neither would I call it bad. It follows the archetypical structure of a jump-scare horror movie, to a significant degree.
Dialogue for Alien is decent but mostly not memorable.
Combination of plot/dialogue/visuals/characterization is in a number of cases very distinctive; it's what makes the movie a cut above. Just watch numerous later Alien-imitators that did the same rough thing and you'll see it, especially if you can remember how original a number of these elements felt back when the movie came out. Working-class spaceship characters: that felt new and even watching now still feels well-scripted, authentic. The organicism of the space monster/ghost: that feels really vivid and well-scripted from egg to chest-burster to full-on Giger monster.

Plot for Aliens is a pretty punchy and somewhat original action movie narrative. Predator has a similar structure, but it came out after Aliens. I'm kind of hard-pressed to think of many movies that preceded it that followed the "big well-armed squad of soldiers cut down by a remorselessly competent and terrifying set of monster/alien/etc. enemies" before that. There's a few war movies that followed that structure a bit--Apocalypse Now, maybe Zulu Dawn, etc., where the presumed 'good guys' turn out to be overconfident and overmatched by a sort of exotic/alien threat and barely make it out alive.
Dialogue for Aliens is really memorable. There's a ton of quippy lines that people remembered coming out of the theater and continue to use even now.
Combination of plot/dialogue/visuals/characterization is hugely distinctive. There's at least three insanely memorable set-pieces. The 'faceless grunts' are extremely memorable, even the crudely archetypical ones. (Tough black sergeant, inexperienced snooty officer, slimy corporate weasel). There's a fairly clever "reconstituted nuclear family" emotional core at the heart of the script.

There's a reason why both movies were imitated frequently and why most of the imitations seemed inferior. The scripts, taken as a whole, are a big part of that.
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Reply #406 on: May 13, 2017, 10:57:23 AM

Plot for Aliens is a pretty punchy and somewhat original action movie narrative. Predator has a similar structure, but it came out after Aliens. I'm kind of hard-pressed to think of many movies that preceded it that followed the "big well-armed squad of soldiers cut down by a remorselessly competent and terrifying set of monster/alien/etc. enemies" before that. There's a few war movies that followed that structure a bit--Apocalypse Now, maybe Zulu Dawn, etc., where the presumed 'good guys' turn out to be overconfident and overmatched by a sort of exotic/alien threat and barely make it out alive.
Dialogue for Aliens is really memorable. There's a ton of quippy lines that people remembered coming out of the theater and continue to use even now.
Combination of plot/dialogue/visuals/characterization is hugely distinctive. There's at least three insanely memorable set-pieces. The 'faceless grunts' are extremely memorable, even the crudely archetypical ones. (Tough black sergeant, inexperienced snooty officer, slimy corporate weasel). There's a fairly clever "reconstituted nuclear family" emotional core at the heart of the script.

There's a reason why both movies were imitated frequently and why most of the imitations seemed inferior. The scripts, taken as a whole, are a big part of that.

The Thing predates Aliens and Predator and I'd say it does Aliens better than Aliens.
Khaldun
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Reply #407 on: May 13, 2017, 08:17:33 PM

I love The Thing, but it's a way different movie than Aliens. It's closer to Alien, but it's also got a lot in common with Invasion of the Body Snatchers. In fact, that's the genius of it--it combines the "we're being stalked by a ghost/monster in this haunted house" with "the monster could be anyone". What's also interesting is that though it didn't *immediately* create imitators the way Alien and Aliens did, it eventually did, but many of the imitators have also been pretty smart and interesting.

I mean, if someone wants to say that Carpenter's The Thing is a superior movie to Alien, I will completely agree. I'm not sure it's a good comparison to Aliens.
NowhereMan
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Reply #408 on: May 13, 2017, 09:49:02 PM

Yeah in terms of underlying themes, both are about the Other and the alien in our midst. Alien though is about not knowing where or whence that menace might spring from, the fear of being trapped with it. The Thing is about not knowing whom it may spring from, that other parts of my group may turn out to be Other. It's somewhat like both being about fear of Commies but Alien is an in the Jungle with the VC flick while the Thing is a McCarthy era thriller.

That was a terrible analogy but I'll stand by it.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
Riggswolfe
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Reply #409 on: May 14, 2017, 03:10:53 PM

Plot for Aliens is a pretty punchy and somewhat original action movie narrative. Predator has a similar structure, but it came out after Aliens. I'm kind of hard-pressed to think of many movies that preceded it that followed the "big well-armed squad of soldiers cut down by a remorselessly competent and terrifying set of monster/alien/etc. enemies" before that. There's a few war movies that followed that structure a bit--Apocalypse Now, maybe Zulu Dawn, etc., where the presumed 'good guys' turn out to be overconfident and overmatched by a sort of exotic/alien threat and barely make it out alive.
Dialogue for Aliens is really memorable. There's a ton of quippy lines that people remembered coming out of the theater and continue to use even now.
Combination of plot/dialogue/visuals/characterization is hugely distinctive. There's at least three insanely memorable set-pieces. The 'faceless grunts' are extremely memorable, even the crudely archetypical ones. (Tough black sergeant, inexperienced snooty officer, slimy corporate weasel). There's a fairly clever "reconstituted nuclear family" emotional core at the heart of the script.

There's a reason why both movies were imitated frequently and why most of the imitations seemed inferior. The scripts, taken as a whole, are a big part of that.

The Thing predates Aliens and Predator and I'd say it does Aliens better than Aliens.

As others have said, the Thing and Aliens aren't even the same genre beyond very broadly "Sci-Fi monster movie."

I don't want to go full on movie analyst here but there is a reason the original Thing movie was from the 50s. The remake keeps that feeling very well with the paranoid "anyone could be the one out to get us" vibe. What makes the Thing timeless is that it could apply to any situation where you don't know who the enemy is. For example, in current times it could easily be an analogy for "is that guy a terrorist with a backpack bomb or just a student on his way to class?"

Alien is also timeless because it is very much about the fear of violation of your body and, arguably, even more about simply "what is out there in the darkness?"

Aliens will likely not be as timeless simply because it is largely about a distrust of the government and corporations and about soldiers being sent in to die by people who don't care and/or understand. I hope that particular feeling isn't here to stay though who knows.

Prometheus is about...uhhh...good visuals. And a pretty heavy handed Jesus as space alien analogy.

"We live in a country, where John Lennon takes six bullets in the chest, Yoko Ono was standing right next to him and not one fucking bullet! Explain that to me! Explain that to me, God! Explain it to me, God!" - Denis Leary summing up my feelings about the nature of the universe.
schild
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Reply #410 on: May 14, 2017, 03:50:53 PM

Aliens will likely not be as timeless simply because it is largely about a distrust of the government and corporations and about soldiers being sent in to die by people who don't care and/or understand. I hope that particular feeling isn't here to stay though who knows.

I would wager until Prometheus came out, outside of nerd culture the name Weyland-Yutani meant nothing and likely still means nothing. I would also say that particular theme falls flat on its face with the general population. Hell, your average movie fan's deepest critique of most movies is "this was good" or "this was bad."

As for the Thing and Alien not being in the same genre, I wholly disagree, but honestly I don't care much about arguing the differences past the surface. Both movies give me the same thrills, The Thing just does it better. Unidentified/Previously Unknown horror terrorizes group of unsuspecting people on a largely small set.
Amarr HM
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Reply #411 on: May 15, 2017, 01:16:35 AM

The Thing is definitely scarier and more disturbing than any of the Alien franchise.

I'm going to escape, come back, wipe this place off the face of the Earth, obliterate it and you with it.
Khaldun
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Reply #412 on: May 15, 2017, 11:27:47 AM

The Thing and Alien, no plural, are in the same genre, or close.

The Thing and AlienS, plural, are not in the same genre.

Alien and AlienS, plural, are not in the same genre. They share the same IP and setting, but they're very different in genre terms.
rattran
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Unreasonable


Reply #413 on: May 16, 2017, 05:38:25 AM

Can we at least agree that Damon Lindhof makes everything he touches worse?
MediumHigh
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Reply #414 on: May 16, 2017, 02:39:46 PM


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