Pre-release thread discussion

[eldaec]

2 hours 10 minutes for this page.

Not bad.

[Fordel]

The UI is bad once you hit 40-50 and have an extra dozen 2 minute cooldown clicky abilities that you could/should use but never do because you don't have the god damn ROOM!


It's like every class gets to enjoy Shaman Totem Hell!

[Sjofn]

That is one of the thngs I am Unhappy about, yeah. I just ... why? Whyyyyyyyyy?

[Thrawn]

The UI is bad once you hit 40-50 and have an extra dozen 2 minute cooldown clicky abilities that you could/should use but never do because you don't have the god damn ROOM!

According to previous F13 discussion on this topic apparently that just means you use customization as a crutch and aren't good enough at the game to handle it.    "Back in the day" people had to play with bad UIs and they liked it so we should too.

[Pezzle]

The UI is bad once you hit 40-50 and have an extra dozen 2 minute cooldown clicky abilities that you could/should use but never do because you don't have the god damn ROOM!

According to previous F13 discussion on this topic apparently that just means you use customization as a crutch and aren't good enough at the game to handle it. 

More like

Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny

[AcidCat]

- UI is very bad in any possible way. I don't care if it will be modded, I am judging what I can see. I don't base my purchase on hopes of future patches or expansions. This is a huge deal as UI means not only where the menus are positioned or what they look like, it means minimap, quest trackers, LFG tools, icon styles, targetting, macro functions and lots of other minor things. It wouldn't be that bad if everything else were great (see Skyrim), but unfortunately...
- World is static and empty. Cantinas and spaceports just to make a couple of examples are pathetically uninspired. Games from 5 to 10 years ago could made more evocative or detailed interiors. This is not about graphics, it's about the gameworld feeling barren and totally cardboard. Also, despite the game having a good sound department, they didn't even use it to make the world sound more alive. With all the other players stuck in their (...) silent personal dialogues bubble the huge empty identical halls feel like an abandoned wax museum, that is until things become alive again due to your own cutscene. There's a dramatic separation between the warmth of the cutscenes and the cold of the normal world.
- The dungeon I've seen is equally unimpressive and dull. Looks like any other interior space, or hallway, or spaceport, or cantina. Dialogues save the day once again, but problem stands.
- And sure, graphics are definitely cheap-poor.
- The animations are mediocre
- The mobs and the encounters are dumb and repetitive. The "3 at once" thing reeks of cheap MMORPG mechanic, and it's copy-pasted over every square inch of the all zones.
- Quests mechanics are too simple, mindblowingly old. A step back compared to what other dikus have been at least trying to do.
- Classes are too few, with very little room for customization.
- Aesthetical customization is equally poor and lacking.
- Races are too few, and too similar.

Well I for one am exactly on the same page with you on these points, these are all demonstrable and valid criticisms and not just "personal preferences."

[Ingmar]

No, almost every item on that list really is personal preference. *Especially* all the "not liking the graphics" type stuff.

Even the "too few choices" stuff is entirely personal preference.

[Sjofn]

I find the "the world is empty and static!" odd, especially the complaint that it's not noisy enough. I jogged past plenty of NPCs having conversations amongst themselves that I cheerfully eavesdropped on. I certainly wouldn't want it much noisier, as it would go from "aw, neat" to "shut the fuck up, dayum."


I also like the graphics. Actively like them. 

[Thrawn]

- Races are too few, and too similar.

I never really paid any attention to it, do the races have any differences besides just looking different?

- PvP is bad.

I'm surprised I don't see this complaint more often, it seems world PVP is going to be almost completely non-existant and the little Hutt-Ball I played got boring very quickly.  If I'm on a PVP server I want to be able to drop onto a lower level planet and start stalking and ganking people doing quests from the other faction.  The whole game is based on a war between the factions after all.

[Sjofn]

The only difference between races is look and a single "social" ability. My dude twi'lek could do a "cultural dance" in addition to his normal dance, exciting.

[Shatter]

- Races are too few, and too similar.

I never really paid any attention to it, do the races have any differences besides just looking different?

- PvP is bad.

I'm surprised I don't see this complaint more often, it seems world PVP is going to be almost completely non-existant and the little Hutt-Ball I played got boring very quickly.  If I'm on a PVP server I want to be able to drop onto a lower level planet and start stalking and ganking people doing quests from the other faction.  The whole game is based on a war between the factions after all.

There are plenty of other games you can be a griefing asshole in , just FYI

[murdoc]

- PvP is bad.

I'm surprised I don't see this complaint more often, it seems world PVP is going to be almost completely non-existant and the little Hutt-Ball I played got boring very quickly. If I'm on a PVP server I want to be able to drop onto a lower level planet and start stalking and ganking people doing quests from the other faction.  The whole game is based on a war between the factions after all.

There are plenty of other games you can be a griefing asshole in , just FYI

PvP Server.

[Fordel]

You won't deal with World PvP till 35+ ish, probably more like 40 ish when both factions end up on the same planets at the same time in the same areas.

[Thrawn]

There are plenty of other games you can be a griefing asshole in , just FYI

It will be more fun in the current popular game full of people taking Star Wars and "in depth story" too seriously.  (Says the guy using a Star Wars forum name and picture.  )

Oh, and -

PvP Server.

[tmp]

The only difference between races is look and a single "social" ability. My dude twi'lek could do a "cultural dance" in addition to his normal dance, exciting.

Is it anything like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFabjc6mFk4 ?

[Sjofn]

I wish. 

[Paelos]

Valid criticisms to me are SB.exe, or I'm falling through the world, or this quest takes me out to somewhere and doesn't finish, or the in game dialogue bugs out and crashes my game, or there's no support for this class questline after level 10, or this world is missing the basic elements like a mailbox, or my characters face doesn't change when he speaks, or I can't see my head when I go in this building.

Those to me are things that show the game isn't there. Those at this point would be signs the dev team is going to fail. That is legitimate criticism against a game.

"These graphics and UI aren't up to my standard, and this dungeon is dull." That's a YOU problem. Other people may not agree, but they would agree on the earlier points I listed.

[trias_e]

Valid criticisms to me are SB.exe, or I'm falling through the world, or this quest takes me out to somewhere and doesn't finish, or the in game dialogue bugs out and crashes my game, or there's no support for this class questline after level 10, or this world is missing the basic elements like a mailbox, or my characters face doesn't change when he speaks, or I can't see my head when I go in this building.

Those to me are things that show the game isn't there. Those at this point would be signs the dev team is going to fail. That is legitimate criticism against a game.

"These graphics and UI aren't up to my standard, and this dungeon is dull." That's a YOU problem. Other people may not agree, but they would agree on the earlier points I listed.

Really? You're claiming that the only legitimate complaints one can have about a game are regarding technical problems?  That's just absurd.  I understand that the most objective criticisms are regarding technical issues, but that doesn't mean other criticisms are inherently 'YOU problems'. 

[Draegan]

I don't get the whole species thing.  There isn't enough?  What else do you want?  You have to start from the premise that each alien must be able to speak in a language you can understand, so that leaves out a lot.

[Ingmar]

No, he's saying those are the ones that don't come down on some level to personal preference.

[Margalis]

That is legitimate criticism against a game.

So basically you are saying that 99% of criticism of games is invalid.

Ok then.

Valid movie criticisms: this move cuts off halfway through!
Invalid movie criticisms: anything else you could possible say about a movie.

This is not the first time that someone has pegged an opinion of the game as somehow "invalid." It's like you guys decided 6-months ago that that would be the go-to response.

Do you really believe that graphics and UI complaints are not "legitimate criticism" or is that just the Star Wars super defense mechanism kicking in? Because it seems just absurd to claim that extremely common criticisms that everyone makes all the time are somehow magically invalid when applied to a Star Wars game.

GRAPHICS criticisms of games are not legitimate...really now? Let's get real, nobody honestly believes this. Nobody.

[trias_e]

If you have a requirement that nothing you complain about has anything to do with personal preference, all game reviews and criticism becomes moot.

Not enjoying sitting in a camp for 8 hours in EQ is a personal preference.  Sitting in a camp for 8 hours is also bad design.

[murdoc]

I don't get the whole species thing.  There isn't enough?  What else do you want?  You have to start from the premise that each alien must be able to speak in a language you can understand, so that leaves out a lot.

I want my Wookie with a bowcaster, dammit.

[Margalis]

No, he's saying those are the ones that don't come down on some level to personal preference.

That's not actually what he said. Everyone can read his post and see that he was contrasting "legitimate" criticisms to subjective ones.

Sure, a lot of criticism is subjective, but that doesn't make it INVALID.

Claiming that graphics and animations complaints about a video game are invalid is like an attempt at humor.

[Ingmar]

I'm perhaps giving him the benefit of the doubt on how strongly he meant 'valid'.

[Ingmar]

Sitting in a camp for 8 hours is also bad design.

But there are people on this forum who have argued, quite seriously, that they would rather do that. So for them it isn't bad design. It creates social bonds blah blah blah.

You and I may think they're crazy, but it is still ultimately a subjective issue.

[DraconianOne]

Do you really believe that graphics and UI complaints are not "legitimate criticism" or is that just the Star Wars super defense mechanism kicking in?

I like the way you automatically jump in with the "Star Wars" fanboi straw-man again. Well done. It's been a while since you've done that.

 

[Margalis]

"Valid" and "subjective" are two different words.

More on this story as it develops!

[Rasix]

Why are we doing this?

[Dark_MadMax]

The UI is bad once you hit 40-50 and have an extra dozen 2 minute cooldown clicky abilities that you could/should use but never do because you don't have the god damn ROOM!


It's like every class gets to enjoy Shaman Totem Hell!

well you know you can enable side bars and bottom bars? Albeit with the amount of reactive and proc abilites some macro system would be very needed

And graphics is bad mainly because of really low res texture and no AA

PvP is terribad  - very laggy, shit tons of cc, horribad maps. DIKU. IN short - VERY BAD (no surprises there)

[Sjofn]

GRAPHICS criticisms of games are not legitimate...really now? Let's get real, nobody honestly believes this. Nobody.

I don't know, I keep getting told my opinion is wrong because I prefer stylized to realistic.

Here's the thing, and graphics complaints are a good example for this. Unless something looks like Minecraft, which I would think no one would argue has stunning graphics, often graphics complaints are 100% opinion based and just not a good place to definitively declare people should not be enjoying a game they are clearly enjoying. I like the style they went with in SWTOR, I find the enviroments varied and interesting to look at. But I know there are always going to be people who get all GRR SHITTY GRAPHICS because they don't like the style. And yeah, I'm going to dismiss that, because it's completely personal taste.

[Velorath]

"Valid" and "subjective" are two different words.

More on this story as it develops!

I think most of the people here who are excited for the game are perfectly ok with others not liking it.  The problem is that guys like Falc, AcidCat, and lamaros (who hasn't even played the game) seem to keep posting in utter disbelief that some people like what they don't.  That not everybody agrees with Falc that that the storyline is masking a crappy game underneath, or lamaros not understanding how people can possibly enjoy the story when there are other people around playing through the exact same story as well.

[Reg]

There's nothing wrong with criticizing the game. It only begins to irritate when it's accompanied by sneers at anyone that likes it.

[Ingmar]

Also, Paelos is an accountant, not an English major or lawyer, precise use of the English language can't be assumed. 

[Fordel]

The UI is bad once you hit 40-50 and have an extra dozen 2 minute cooldown clicky abilities that you could/should use but never do because you don't have the god damn ROOM!


It's like every class gets to enjoy Shaman Totem Hell!

well you know you can enable side bars and bottom bars? Albeit with the amount of reactive and proc abilites some macro system would be very needed

Still isn't enough.

And the side bars are ass where they are to boot. If the two side bars could be rearranged to fill the space on either side of my 2 middle bars, I could probably live with how the UI is. A simple /macro system would be VERY keen too.