Pre-release thread discussion

[eldaec]

I really could care less about the story.

Then that's your answer. Don't bother going any further with your interest in this game. If you don't care about story, do not pass GO, and do not collect $200.

Isn't the correct declamation: I really couldn't care less about the story?

That would depend on whether it is possible to care less about story than the amount he does care about story.

As we know neither the minimum amount it is possible for him to care about story, nor the actual amount he cares about this story, we lack sufficient data.

Further research is required.

[Ingmar]

I couldn't  can't stand Morrowind or Oblivion and got bored with both inside of 2 hours.

That was me too, but I do actually like Skyrim.  

[Paelos]

I couldn't  can't stand Morrowind or Oblivion and got bored with both inside of 2 hours.

That was me too, but I do actually like Skyrim.  

Ho Ho Ho

[kildorn]

I couldn't  can't stand Morrowind or Oblivion and got bored with both inside of 2 hours.

That was me too, but I do actually like Skyrim.  

Skyrim is the game I didn't think Bethesda actually had in them. I was watching it pre release going "pretty, but your games always suck at being games"

Actual game? Silly fun.

[Surlyboi]

Is it me, or do the people that are complaining about it not being worth the box fee/sub etc, seem to be looking for validation on why they don't like it?

[Montague]

I see myself in two months with a max level Sith and a Jedi alt, running the heroics that are already in game, and one of the two raids already in game, having a blast with guildies like me that played WoW for several years and quit that game for reasons other than the game mechanics.

I'll get tired of it eventually, and it probably won't  hold me for six years like WoW did. But I'm going to play the crap out of it instead of pining for a game that doesn't exist.

[eldaec]

Do you reckon we could reach page 100 by launch?

Seriously, page 13 took us 3 hours, 22 minutes and 17 seconds.

And the material we were working with was pretty poor.

[kildorn]

Do you reckon we could reach page 100 by launch?

Seriously, page 13 took us 3 hours, 22 minutes and 17 seconds.

And the material we were working with was pretty poor.

I reckon the empire side will be full of teenagers and angsty pricks because _____ 

[Shatter]

Is it me, or do the people that are complaining about it not being worth the box fee/sub etc, seem to be looking for validation on why they don't like it?

Basic TOR complaint:  TOR is boring and lacks innovation although people are playing WOW 7 years straight and doing the same shit they did 4 years ago with new paint which is apparently ok and worth $15 a month

[taolurker]

You're questioning value, which is subjective to everyone.  You don't see the value in it.  Great, stop worrying about it or what other people think, ignore it and come back to check it out in a year or so if you find yourself wondering again.   You know what it is, you're not missing anything or being left out by not participating.

No, I'm not questioning subjective value. I flat out asked two very direct questions that no one is answering (except Montague who posted while I typed this). What do you see the game being in 2 months, and how much gameplay you see in it. Neither of those is me questioning value, only asking people what their opinion of stickiness is, and how much gameplay they expect to see (or are likely to see).

Edit to fix the part that was no longer true in italics

[eldaec]

Just be glad it isn't $16 a month. The howls of protest at exceeding the holy acceptable mmog price point would have broken the earth.

[TripleDES]

Is it me, or do the people that are complaining about it not being worth the box fee/sub etc, seem to be looking for validation on why they don't like it?

What I get is essentially a single player game, with other people running around randomly, and requiring me to pay money to replay it (assuming you finish it within the free first month).

The game's good enough, ignoring the mob difficulty scaling that isn't fun for a "single player game" and close-range gaussian distribution of hostile mobs that makes travel annoying.

[Paelos]

You're questioning value, which is subjective to everyone.  You don't see the value in it.  Great, stop worrying about it or what other people think, ignore it and come back to check it out in a year or so if you find yourself wondering again.   You know what it is, you're not missing anything or being left out by not participating.

No, I'm not questioning subjective value. I flat out asked two very direct questions that no one is answering. What do you see the game being in 2 months, and how much gameplay you see in it. Neither of those is me questioning value, only asking people what their opinion of stickiness is, and how much gameplay they expect to see (or are likely to see).

Several people answered it. One max level dude, some alts, and raiding or grouping for fun. I see probably 20 hours of gameplay in it a week for myself for 4 months, at which point I expect they detail an update.

[eldaec]

What do you see the game being in 2 months

how much gameplay you see in it.

I'm thinking it'll be a star wars themed massively multiplayer game based around diku mechanics and Bioware conversation wheels.

How much gameplay, I don't know, 29 maybe? Possibly 31 gameplay?

[eldaec]

What is the SI unit of gameplay anyway?

[Jherad]

What do you see the game being in 2 months, and how much gameplay you see in it.

I suspect I'll have a max level tank which I'll have used to group with my wife on the way up, and be on my way to having a max level BH or Trooper for solo play, group PvP and general fun.

At some stage I'll run into a brick wall, probably when the raid endgame kicks in (I'm done with that) and the attraction in rolling alts has worn out. How long I stay will depend almost entirely on how much fun non-raid content there is for me once I hit level cap. I'm not seeing much in the way of sandboxy/social stuff, so it'll probably be down to quest/flashpoint content.

[Sky]

Wait, I can consult this guy for an answer on longevity:

[Sand]

I couldn't  can't stand Morrowind or Oblivion and got bored with both inside of 2 hours.

That was me too, but I do actually like Skyrim.  

No. Im going along  with Merusk on this one. The hype sucked me into Oblivion which I despised. Im not letting it happen again.

[eldaec]

I honestly think the best approach when you find someone talking up an elder scrolls game is to immediately throw them into a furnace. That is the best and most proportionate way to minimise risk of anyone falling for it again.

[proudft]

What is the SI unit of gameplay anyway?

I think it's the Meier.

[Hawkbit]

What is the SI unit of gameplay anyway?

I think it's the Meier.

Incorrect.  It is the Garriott.   

[Furiously]

I thought it was the inverse Smedley.

[Sir Fodder]

Like WoW, I choked on the character models. Didn't get very far at all before getting repelled, bums me out because there has got to be some neato game systems stuff in there, right? Seemed bland though, been there before. Really got a kick out of reading Ubiqs blog before this all got going...

Is there a name for that character art style? Looks vaguely neo-Disney/Crossbow, long fuggin thighs and clunky feet, bleh.

[Merusk]

Is it me, or do the people that are complaining about it not being worth the box fee/sub etc, seem to be looking for validation on why they don't like it?

No, not just you.  I was trying to talk around that point.


Where do I see the game in 2 months?   I don't care, all I care about is fun.  If I'm still having fun where do I see myself in the game in 2 months?  One maxed character and 2 or 3 others hanging in the low 20s. The only reason the maxed will be there is because the office closes for the week between x-mas and new years and I don't have to travel.   Is that enough gameplay for me?  Based on what I saw, yes.

[Rasix]

Is there a name for that character art style? Looks vaguely neo-Disney/Crossbow, long fuggin thighs and clunky feet, bleh.

Clone Wars?  Isn't it modeled a somewhat after the cartoon series? I haven't really ever given a damn about MMO graphics.  The only ones that bothered me were EQ2 and even that didn't really keep me from playing (Diku fatigue did that).

I doubt I'll even be maxed in 2 months.  Unless I all of the sudden rage quit LoL, I figure I'll have to split time between the two.  I'm in no hurry.



SI unit would either be the McQuaid or Jacob.  I think the conversion is 1.5 McQuaids to 1 Jacobs.  The Koster is a 3 part graphical representation of fun smelling slightly of salted pork.

[Sky]

Is there a name for that character art style? Looks vaguely neo-Disney/Crossbow, long fuggin thighs and clunky feet, bleh.

I think the knees are sharp and the nails square, if you turn them up to max settings.

[Falconeer]

I still don't see much response in the way of cheap quality argument.

Didn't want to add anything else, but since you are asking:

- UI is very bad in any possible way. I don't care if it will be modded, I am judging what I can see. I don't base my purchase on hopes of future patches or expansions. This is a huge deal as UI means not only where the menus are positioned or what they look like, it means minimap, quest trackers, LFG tools, icon styles, targetting, macro functions and lots of other minor things. It wouldn't be that bad if everything else were great (see Skyrim), but unfortunately...
- World is static and empty. Cantinas and spaceports just to make a couple of examples are pathetically uninspired. Games from 5 to 10 years ago could made more evocative or detailed interiors. This is not about graphics, it's about the gameworld feeling barren and totally cardboard. Also, despite the game having a good sound department, they didn't even use it to make the world sound more alive. With all the other players stuck in their (...) silent personal dialogues bubble the huge empty identical halls feel like an abandoned wax museum, that is until things become alive again due to your own cutscene. There's a dramatic separation between the warmth of the cutscenes and the cold of the normal world.
- The dungeon I've seen is equally unimpressive and dull. Looks like any other interior space, or hallway, or spaceport, or cantina. Dialogues save the day once again, but problem stands.
- And sure, graphics are definitely cheap-poor.
- The animations are mediocre.
- Speeders and the vehicles I've seen glide as bad as "cars" did in 2002 in Anarchy Online. So from what I've seen the mounts feel poorly attached.
- The mobs and the encounters are dumb and repetitive. The "3 at once" thing reeks of cheap MMORPG mechanic, and it's copy-pasted over every square inch of the all zones.
- Quests mechanics are too simple, mindblowingly old. A step back compared to what other dikus have been at least trying to do.
- Classes are too few, with very little room for customization.
- Aesthetical customization is equally poor and lacking.
- Races are too few, and too similar.
- Combat feels slow and unresponsive, not as "snappy" as WoW (2004) or Rift (2011). Probably due to a slower GCD, possibly due to not enough skills off the Global Cooldown,possibly something else, I don't care. There's no "oomph" whatsoever outside of missiles (they are admittedly cool).
- PvP is bad.



tl;dr

World, quests, UI, graphics, customization, combat and PvP are, in my opinion, of mediocre quality in SWTOR.



As for validation, do you really think that I post here HOPING that someone will agree with me, or some supporter will change his/her mind, to get validation point or earn f13 RMT credits? I tried the game, I bought the game, I still can be strongly critical towards the game. As per value, I said many times I think it's worth 60$, I don't think it should have a monthly fee. I can see some of the fun in it, and I see lots of suck in it. I am just surprised by the substantial lack of jadedness towards a game that I consider (see above).

[Merusk]

That's because those who are jaded towards it wandered off after realizing that it wasn't for them and saying their piece.  You don't see Schild in here grousing about it, for instance.  Numtini has said a few things as she's tried to come to grips with WHY she doesn't quite like it, but the rest of you seem to be folks who have no other notion than to bitch that "it's not innovative and the graphix suk!."

It is what it is.  We've KNOWN what it was going to be for at least a year now.  It met those expectations for most of those interested in them.  If you were holding hopes for anything else I don't know what to tell you.  This was said many, many times in the 400+ page thread - it's going to be a WoW clone with no innovation and graphics that are easy on a computer that's mid to low-end for 2011.  surprise!

[Ingmar]

I don't mind the bitching now, particularly from people who've bought it. If they're still bitching in this forum 6 months after they stopped playing, that will be annoying.

[Sky]

Hopefully they'll be bitching about GW2 by then.

[murdoc]

Guys.

GUYS.

The UI isn't that bad.

I can understand the complaining that it isn't customizable enough, but that it's bad? That doesn't make sense to me. It's a perfectly functional default UI.

[Ingmar]

Yeah, I don't find it inherently bad, just annoying that I can't move things to where I put them in every other game.

[Amaron]

tl;dr

You've confused quality with your own personal tastes.

[Paelos]

Falc, I agree with you on the race limits and class limits. The UI is always modded and if you hate modding your UI, I don't really understand you as a computer game player in this day and age.

PvP will be bad, no question. It'S DIKU pvp. Nothing will save that.

I disagree with the world being barren. I've found them quite the opposite. They seem to be quite varied between barren or clustered and tight based on the planet type.

The animations, graphics, smoothing, etc? I just point to a game like Minecraft every time that argument gets brought up. Make it fun, and people will play in droves.

[Paelos]

I don't mind the bitching now, particularly from people who've bought it. If they're still bitching in this forum 6 months after they stopped playing, that will be annoying.

HEY!