Patch 4.3 - On a Deathwing and a prayer

[Rokal]

I'm arguing for someone to tak the bricks out of the briefcase so you don't feel like you're doing a job when you run a dungeon. Blizzard's design of 5 mans has been as precursors to raid content. People need a way to play where they can be successful and get stuff without reading things outside of the game to win. They need something where they can show up, get useable rewards, and walk away pleased.

These aren't mutually exclusive options though. I don't think the real failing of Cata dungeons was that they were too hard. It was that Blizzard ignored normal mode in the same way that they are ignoring Heroic mode in 4.3. Would we have seen the same complaints about Cata dungeons if every level 85 heroic also had a level 85 normal version that dropped almost-the-same loot? Probably not. Blizzard decided this was too expensive or otherwise not worthwhile to do. MoP will take it one step further by having no normal mode level 90 dungeons, and instead having only 'heroics' at 90.

This is the model Trion is using, and I think it works pretty well.
Leveling dungeons: "dungeons"
Level cap versions of dungeons: "Tier 1 dungeons" (aka heroics)
Hard version of level cap dungeons: "Tier 2 dungeons" (aka 'legendary' or something similar)

Doing a model like that requires more work though, and Blizzard is doing the bare-minimum and taking 5-6+ months per patch as is.

[dd0029]

As a Rift player, I will note that the T2 Dungeons, while originally that hard, were significantly nerfed not long after release. There is a single new Master Mode, theoretically more on the way, that one kind of fits your bill for challenging five man content on a par with raiding. However, it is outside of the gear trail. You don't need loot from the master mode to move onto the first raid tier. Heck, you hardly need T2 dungeon gear to get into raids as anything other than a tank.

[Simond]

You know who else hated casuals?
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1172957888?page=1

 

[Ingmar]

The PUG I was in wiped probably 20 times in the first two dungeons last night. (As a fury warrior I can only do so much to save them.) I could tell from Recount that they were not very good, but the dungeon finder is letting them in there. Therefore, the content is not too easy.

[Rokal]

You know who else hated casuals?
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1172957888?page=1

I don't get it. Is this like a internet-famous post or something?

The PUG I was in wiped probably 20 times in the first two dungeons last night. (As a fury warrior I can only do so much to save them.) I could tell from Recount that they were not very good, but the dungeon finder is letting them in there. Therefore, the content is not too easy.

How do you even...

[Ingmar]

New mechanics + very loose gear restrictions + PUG factor.

[SurfD]

New mechanics + very loose gear restrictions + PUG factor.

Or things like the rogue, in near full pvp gear, with 2 Brewfest Mug weapons, doing 8k dps on boss fights and 9k dps on trash, that i had in my last End Times pug.

[Ingmar]

DPS breakdown at the end of my End Times run was something like:

Me - 18k
Tank - 9k
Mage - 8k
Hunter - 8k

And I am not exactly rocking the gear world or a tremendously good DPS warrior. I just mash buttons, probably in the right order about 2/3 of the time. 

[Wolf]

hey I healed a pug that died a couple of times (3-4) and got acused of being a shit healer. I had my legendary on and everything. Now I'm not amazing, but I'm decent, I've 2healed everything in 6/7 heroic fl. It's just that people have a serious disconnect with their interrupt buttons, that's all. As long as there's something to interrupt people will be wiping. Also bosses kinda differ, tirande is way harder than any of the others.

Went in with a guild group and fake nozdromu is way fun with the never-ending-heroism.

[Ingmar]

Yeah if my interrupt was fast enough to get every cast of stardust I'm pretty sure we'd have made it through Tyrande much more easily.

[Sjofn]

People who don't interupt make me so pissed off arghghghghghgh. I can't wait to do these new five mans. 

[Wolf]

that and there are 2 more avoidable abilities that people fail to avoide.

[Ingmar]

People who don't interupt make me so pissed off arghghghghghgh. I can't wait to do these new five mans. 

They need more abilities like rude interruption in Fury - I get a 5% damage boost for a while every time I interrupt something. 

[Sjofn]

My arcane mage has one like that, I don't think my rogue does, though.

[Fordel]

Ingmar just sucks at interrupting to begin with.

[Rokal]

Went in with a guild group and fake nozdromu is way fun with the never-ending-heroism.

My bear druid alt was able to keep primal instincts (50% dmg reduction) and berserk (free mangle with no cd) up for pretty much the entire fight. This was about 1/50th as fun as time reset was on my rogue. Tanks are no fun.

[Wolf]

depends on the tank, buddy. Dedepnds on the tank.

Forever Wings 

[Sjofn]

I've done two of the three new heroics, I think they're pretty fun. Surprisingly short, though.


EDIT: Tyrande is a bitch.

[Nevermore]

EDIT: Tyrande is a bitch.

And inexplicably has a Russian accent.  But that whole instance makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[Rendakor]

Went in with a guild group and fake nozdromu is way fun with the never-ending-heroism.

My bear druid alt was able to keep primal instincts (50% dmg reduction) and berserk (free mangle with no cd) up for pretty much the entire fight. This was about 1/50th as fun as time reset was on my rogue. Tanks are no fun.

Perma Army of the Dead and DRW? Yes please.

[Nevermore]

Perma Army of the Dead and DRW? Yes please.

Not only that, but the ghouls that are out don't die or disappear when time is reset. 

[Sjofn]

EDIT: Tyrande is a bitch.

And inexplicably has a Russian accent.  But that whole instance makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I  have no idea what accent Tyrande has. I do enjoy that she, Malfurion and Illidan all have wildly different accents, though. And I could listen to Illidan shovel huge fistfuls of scenery into his gaping maw all day.

But! What I meant is her boss fight is a pain in the ass. I did not enjoy healing it at all. ><  All the other boss fights I've done are fun, though.

[Nevermore]

Oh, I thought you where talking about Well of Eternity.  I haven't run into her in End of Time yet.

[Sjofn]

She is much harder than any of the other bosses in End Time, if you ask me. Healing it was a huge, messy, ugly pain in my ass. She's a boring non-entity in Well of Eternity. Although I laughed out loud when she "ran out of arrows." So useless.

[Rokal]

I would say both fights she is involved in are the worst among all the 4.3 dungeons.

[Rendakor]

The last fight in WoE actually wiped us because we just ignored her and got overwhelmed with adds.

[Wolf]

on the whole lore front

[SurfD]

She is much harder than any of the other bosses in End Time, if you ask me. Healing it was a huge, messy, ugly pain in my ass. She's a boring non-entity in Well of Eternity. Although I laughed out loud when she "ran out of arrows." So useless.

Actually, now that i have done her a few times, the only real difficult part is that haste buff she gets at 80 and 50% health.  As a tank, i can interupt every one of the stardust casts untill she has 2 stacks of the haste buff.  That cuts down on alot of the damage.  The rest of the group damage is largely avoidable untill she hits 30% and starts dropping the rain of death on the group.  Of course, pugs are notoriously bad at avoiding avoidable damage.

[Merusk]

on the whole lore front

I went to read WoWwiki to see what you were talking about and it's not updated but.. wtf.. Thrall is so fucking over the top he even replaced a Dragon Aspect in some ritual?

Man, Fuck Metzen.

[Wolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYVA0Hh6u3U&feature=player_embedded that's the after Deathwing cinematic. Obviously spoilery

[Ingmar]

on the whole lore front

I went to read WoWwiki to see what you were talking about and it's not updated but.. wtf.. Thrall is so fucking over the top he even replaced a Dragon Aspect in some ritual?

Man, Fuck Metzen.

In this case I'm OK with it since it fucks a Knaak character, who are even worse.

[Nevermore]

I guess I'll spoiler this for the one person who would be totally bummed out by ruining the epic ending to this Pulitzer quality story.

[Ingmar]

I think technically the red dragons did as much as (or more than) us in the Malygos fight.

[Merusk]

on the whole lore front

I went to read WoWwiki to see what you were talking about and it's not updated but.. wtf.. Thrall is so fucking over the top he even replaced a Dragon Aspect in some ritual?

Man, Fuck Metzen.

In this case I'm OK with it since it fucks a Knaak character, who are even worse.

I have no idea who Knaack is and don't think I want to know.

My sub ran out yesterday so I only got 1 day in the BGs and only 2 "wtf" stares at my Dranei mage in Polychromatic Visionwrap, ancestral Woolies and pointy red hat.  I'm a little disappointed I didn't get more but not $15 worth of disappointed.

[Lakov_Sanite]

When does thrall ever become an aspect? as far as it looks, thrall is still just a very powerful shaman. fuck spoilering bad stories. It just looks like to defeat deathwing all the dragons used up their power, they didn't just quit being aspects for shits and giggles.