Bombing in Oslo

[Merusk]

It's the weekend. 2 pages is pretty good.  Plus, any further exploration would definitely send this into Politics, so I imagine people are avoiding saying a lot of things.

Or, like me, they see it as horrific and tragic but don't have a hell of a lot to say. Much less being able to wrap your mind around one guy killing 80.  That puts it above even the Port Arthur incident by 2 1/4.. in a nation that nobody's heard of anything similar before.  It's probably just too stunning to process right now.

It was a lone guy, apparently, who was caught.  He's wacky-unstable and thinks himself some sort of conservative messiah from his twitter message.  Did he think he'd inspire the right-wing to rise-up and take arms with his 'inspirational' message and proof that he's a man of action?  No, he's a fucking nutter.

Also, we're a bit riveted over here by our country's "leaders" deciding to just up and fuck us all over.

[Sand]

No one has asked or mentioned this, but if the guy was acting alone who took the picture of him with the bodies and who posted it to his Facebook page?
Maybe I'm missing something cause I'm high as a kite on opiates right now, bit that question leapt out at me.

I would assume a news feed that was leaked.

News didn't get their that fast. Also that wouldn't explain who posted it to the suspects Facebook page.
Imagery looks like some sort of still from a security came maybe.

[Xuri]

Which picture are you referring to?

[UnSub]

If ever there was a country to sit up and take notice of mass, planned, apparently political killings by right-wing Christian fundamentalist nutjobs...

I think you've nailed the issue with calling him a nut-job. If his name had been Ali, it would have been proof of the worldwide Islamic conspiracy to bring down the Western world. But it isn't, so he's just (at this point) a well-planned sociopath on a spree kill.

He doesn't fit with the 'story' of terrorism, so therefore he doesn't count.

[Ingmar]

It's been a lead story on my local newpaper's site all weekend, at least.

[K9]

Anders Breivik's Manifesto

Clocks in at ~777,000 words 

[Sand]

Which picture are you referring to?

Picture of him surrounded by bodies in water at island. It was used as a Facebook profile photo for profile with person with we name as suspect.

[NowhereMan]

The man was clearly a maniac, not sure I'd call him a sociopath though. I'm basing that just off the fact that I don't really know enough about him but someone inspired to kill by their political beliefs is probably thinks they're acting in the best interests of 'the people' or somehow doing something to make the world better in their twisted mind view. This doesn't mean he isn't a sociopath but it seems a leap, plenty of people can be twisted and horrible without that particular strain of disaffection and just labelling him a sociopath, imo, just makes it easier to dismiss everything else that motivated him. Like others have said if he was a muslim we'd be hearing about radicalising mosques that preach hate because that fits the narrative. For whatever reason we haven't got a media narrative of radicalising message boards full of racist reactionaries to explain this but sociopathic white men is a pretty popular one. Since he fits the visuals for that it's the 'easy sell' and it pretty naturally occurs to journalists to view the situation as such.

Also it's such a mindfuck in terms of scale for a one man operation. I honestly didn't believe it when I heard that there were 80 people killed in the shooting on that island, the number is just so huge. On top of that there just isn't anything to follow up on unless the story breaks that he was part of some group that planned more of these. It just seems to have come utterly out of nowhere, probably because it was one guy planning the whole thing in his head. What happens to him now is going to be really fucking interesting. I also really don't want to be the one to drag this to politics so I'll stick to saying that the whole thing is fucking horrible and I just really hope that there isn't more grief for the families of the kids on the island in terms of finding bodies or not knowing what happened to their kid.

[Sir T]

Unusually, we have a lock on where the "it was a Muslim Terror Group" rumour came from

http://electronicintifada.net/blog/benjamin-doherty/how-clueless-terrorism-expert-set-media-suspicion-muslims-after-oslo-horror

It was a 'terrorism expert' talking out his ass, basically.

[NowhereMan]

I will say that Ginaz talking about how the reason we didn't all assume it was an Islamic terrorist attack was because the media doesn't report enough on the actual number of such attacks while also believing that there had been a total of 2 non-Islamic terrorist attacks in the last 25 years a high point of someone talking authoritatively on a subject they have no clue about. On the other hand he isn't (I assume) consulted by international media organisations. This is something that you'll get on any story though, like I said the media likes events that fit into a narrative and if someone with 'authority' is telling them this fits a story that's what they'll run with. Otherwise it's back to seeing which one most easily fits. I should say this isn't meant as some condemnation of all journalists as lazy sensationalists but, I hope accurately, reflecting the way the system is set up at present.

Also apparently the guy had fairly extensive links to various far-right organisations in the sense that he corresponded with members in groups like the EDL and posted on Stormfront and similar sites. Hardly a surprise in itself but with the attention that gets directed towards Jihadist web sites I wonder if we might start seeing a similar media focus on these sites as incubating political terrorism? They're certainly already pretty heavily monitored by the police but it would be interesting to see more attention getting paid to them. If nothing else having user information posted on the net for some of the higher traffic ones would be amusing again.

[Ginaz]

I will say that Ginaz talking about how the reason we didn't all assume it was an Islamic terrorist attack was because the media doesn't report enough on the actual number of such attacks while also believing that there had been a total of 2 non-Islamic terrorist attacks in the last 25 years a high point of someone talking authoritatively on a subject they have no clue about. On the other hand he isn't (I assume) consulted by international media organisations. This is something that you'll get on any story though, like I said the media likes events that fit into a narrative and if someone with 'authority' is telling them this fits a story that's what they'll run with. Otherwise it's back to seeing which one most easily fits. I should say this isn't meant as some condemnation of all journalists as lazy sensationalists but, I hope accurately, reflecting the way the system is set up at present.

Also apparently the guy had fairly extensive links to various far-right organisations in the sense that he corresponded with members in groups like the EDL and posted on Stormfront and similar sites. Hardly a surprise in itself but with the attention that gets directed towards Jihadist web sites I wonder if we might start seeing a similar media focus on these sites as incubating political terrorism? They're certainly already pretty heavily monitored by the police but it would be interesting to see more attention getting paid to them. If nothing else having user information posted on the net for some of the higher traffic ones would be amusing again.

Thats not what I was really saying but I won't comment any further because I realize that what I said so soon after the attacks came across as a bit douche baggish and this isn't the politics forum.  Sorry.

[Margalis]

I saw a link to some EU commissioned study that put terrorist attacks by Islamic groups in the EU at something like 20% of all total attacks.

That terrorists are Mulsims is just the media narrative and confirmation bias.

[Xuri]

Which picture are you referring to?

Picture of him surrounded by bodies in water at island. It was used as a Facebook profile photo for profile with person with we name as suspect.

Members of the press arrived at the island in a news-chopper before the police did (as they were already in the air and nearby), and they took some pictures.

[koro]

Anders Breivik's Manifesto

Clocks in at ~777,000 words 

Most of it has also apparently been lifted verbatim from the Unabomber Manifesto, with Liberalism changed to multiculturalism/Marxism.

[trias_e]

Considering the Unabomber's manifesto was around 50 pages, and this is over 1000, that would be basically impossible unless he repeats passages from it over and over again.

Edit:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8658269/Norway-shooting-Anders-Behring-Breivik-plagiarised-Unabomber.html

[Krakrok]

Is this big news in the US? People on Twitter were saying even CNN continued with Casey Anthony stories and all but ignored this, long after it unfolded. Doesn't seem to be generating much discussion here either - major event, two page thread.

If ever there was a country to sit up and take notice of mass, planned, apparently political killings by right-wing Christian fundamentalist nutjobs...

Drudgereport had it huge at the top for awhile. Starting with the bomb blast.

[01101010]

Considering the Unabomber's manifesto was around 50 pages, and this is over 1000, that would be basically impossible unless he repeats passages from it over and over again.

Edit:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8658269/Norway-shooting-Anders-Behring-Breivik-plagiarised-Unabomber.html

[Merusk]

NPR ran a piece this morning discussing how this is just a bit of the roiling Right-Wing in Europe finally breaking the surface.   I hadn't realized just how many ultra-right parties had begun gaining power over there.  Or that, as one anylist put it, there is a culture of Exclusion rather than Inclusion in most European countries, leading to lots of problems as immagrints have moved in over the last several decades.

[Teleku]

Is this big news in the US? People on Twitter were saying even CNN continued with Casey Anthony stories and all but ignored this, long after it unfolded. Doesn't seem to be generating much discussion here either - major event, two page thread.

If ever there was a country to sit up and take notice of mass, planned, apparently political killings by right-wing Christian fundamentalist nutjobs...

Its been a big story on the main page of every US news site I've seen since it happened.

[KallDrexx]

Police announced, meanwhile, that they had dramatically overcounted the number of people slain in a shooting spree at a political youth group's island retreat and were lowering the confirmed death toll from 86 to 68.

http://news.yahoo.com/norway-rampage-culprit-calm-expects-life-jail-161443626.html

[Hoax]

Its still hard to imagine a lone gunman managing to shoot 68 people let alone kill 68 people.

[Furiously]

Being dressed as a policeman directing children probably accounts for lots.

[01101010]

Being dressed as a policeman directing children probably accounts for lots.

So that was definitely not an inner-city school camp then? 

[Tale]

So this guy has said in court that his Knights Templar Europe network has up to 80 "solo martyr cells" and he was working with two of them before acting alone.

We're about to find out whether it's the ravings of a madman, or a right-wing terror network.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-25/norway-attacks-suspect-arrives-in-court/2809930

[snowwy]

Just got back from the "Rose-parade" in Oslo. 200 000 people gathered in front of the town hall tonight, most carrying either a red or white rose .Love and peace.
Was meant to go from there down to Youngstorget, but they had to change those plans since to many people showed up. Some pics from the norwegian newspaper VG here http://www.vg.no/bildespesial/spesial.php?id=8410  , hope that link works anyway. Feel free to yell at me if it doesn't

[Fordel]

Its still hard to imagine a lone gunman managing to shoot 68 people let alone kill 68 people.

Didn't he have an automatic weapon of some kind? That paired with him being able to gather crowds around him as a fake officer.

[Ingmar]

One of these, apparently:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14

[Margalis]

This guy sounds like a good candidate for waterboarding.

[angry.bob]

I'm curious how Norwegian/European conservative/nationalist groups/parties are talking about this. Especially the ones he's refered to by name. Judging by posts in boards by people claiming to be Norwegian it's about as tacky as I'd expect from our own groups.

Also, that wierd horizontal bracket shaped beard thing he had should have been a red flag to everyone that the guy was batshit crazy.

[NowhereMan]

The 'head' of the EDL was on Newsnight last night and responded pretty much as you'd expect. He refused to acknowledge that he knew the guy in any way or that he might have attended any EDL marches, when pressed he claimed he'd never met him, that hundreds of people take part in their peaceful protests and not all are members or really believe in the same things as them and finally, when pressed on members that claimed said nutter was associated repeatedly asserted that you couldn't deal in hearsay and they had to base these things on facts. He also exclusively quoted one sentence in the 1500 page manifesto where the guy said the EDL were naive fools and berated them for accepting non-white members (honestly this surprised me. Are there any non-white people involevd in the EDL?). He wouldn't deal with anything else but did condemn the violent action taken against innocents. Apparently the guy is entirely unconnected to his movement and noone in the EDL would ever consider anything even remotely like this, they just desperately want their right to peaceful protest, human rights being something only given to Muslims. Finally he pontificated on the hundreds of thousands of people with genuine concerns about Islam and how it was inevitable something like this would happen in the UK and that he hoped the Norway events would act as a 'wake up call' to politicians that they need to take action.

It was pretty much what you'd expect to hear from someone holding forth in a pub that knows they win the discussion by not letting anyone else speak and was full of, "I've never met the man, you can't expect me to remember all the people I meet anyway and if I did meet him it doesn't show that I agree with any of the actions he's taken." largely my bias but the guy also looked exactly like what you'd expect if you took a bloke that would beat the shit out of people that disagreed with him in the pub and dressed him up neatly in a suit. Paxman has a reputation for political grillings so he went in with a few talking points and just hammered those relentlessly so he wouldn't actually be asked any awkward questions. Paxman gave up about 5 minutes in and just let him rant with the odd question lobbed in, I don't think he was really on form and he clearly couldn't be bothered.

I was also unaware of the fact that there are currently 14 people associated with the EDL/NF/etc. in prison on terror charges right now in the UK.

[Tale]

Turns out the lawyer Breivik requested is a member of the Labour Party, and Breivik still does not know this :)

http://twitter.com/#!/KJBar/status/95810954452942848

[Teleku]

You stay classy Glenn Beck.

Note, I don't actually want this thread to be purged into politics, but I guess this is the only place to put this.   

[Mrbloodworth]

Its already in politics.

[Teleku]

Oh, sorry, guess I should bother reading that forum again.....

[01101010]

Wow... just wow.