this sight

[HaemishM]

Does that include me too?

No, your last name is scottish.   You're ok.

I guess that just means I'm a sheepfucker.

[WayAbvPar]

Kilt is from an old Scottish word meaning "quick draw" =P

[Kenrick]

Actually old scottish is formally known as "gay lick".

[HaemishM]

So just to bring this topic back on some form of on-topic-ness, or as much as it can be...

What's so wrong with just reading and posting at the site(s) you like and not being drama queens about someone's perceived change in focus?

[Margalis]

What's so wrong with just reading and posting at the site(s) you like and not being drama queens about someone's perceived change in focus?

You don't get to be a drama queen.

It shouldn't be surprising that people proud of the fact they vomit up moronic hate are vomitting up more of the same. For some people being a moronic hatemonger is a badge of honor. "Teh hate" may have a different target but it's the same thing. It's just another form of the same petty stupidity.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Complaining...................admit it or not but it has its place.  a lot of people are saying cry more n00b and all that but are not seeing that they in other circumstances would complain themselves, lets say EQ suddenly made they're mmog about rainbows and ponies and collecting chocolate bars, the players now would complain....do they have the right? it is EQ's game they can do whatever the hell they want.  or what if 24 was suddenly about a retarded hispanic mother of 4 in a wheelchair fighting crime instead of jack? of course people would complain.


when someone whines and says "im taking my ball and going home, you suxx0r now"  dont be the guy telling him it's joe ball or that he's a pussy.  be the guy telling him why this site is good as it and that he's an idiot for not seeing it.

i see a lot of knocking someone down for their opinions but not a lot of telling them they're wrong, just that they shouldnt have bothered speaking.

if you wanna bring the hate here too have at but perhaps i was under the mistaken impression that the move to f13 was to leave teh hate behind.

[schild]

i was under the mistaken impression that the move to f13 was to leave teh hate behind.

You weren't mistaken. But 'teh hate' != #hate, that's just coincedence. The last thing we wanted was the little pissing contest we ended up with. But that's life or something.

[nach0king]

The reality is, the #hate attitude is really self-parody at this point. People complain before they even play a game. "Waahh...they took out this feature! (That sucked, broke the game, and I never got a chance to use anyway)"

How can you take people seriously when they are complaining about games, gasp, changing their systems for the better? Or complaining about the player base of a MMORPG. Read these boards, from the assumed perspective of an outsider, and THEN complain about MMORPG fans in earnest.

Excuse me if I'm reading this wrongly - actually, don't excuse me, as your extremely sloppy writing leaves numerous ambiguities - but are you pooh-poohing the h8 boiz for being sceptical of game changes on an a priori basis, then going on to make the same prejudicial exclamations yourself, only from a positive point of view?

Surely not.

My friend, who worked on FFXI, calls EVERYTHING before WoW/CoH a 1st gen game.

Your friend is simply incorrect. Surely an advocate of "envolution" such as your good self would be able to recognise that the "Next Big Thing" is not the first step up the evolutionary ladder?

Seriously. Take a beginner's logic class then try again.

[nach0king]

And why the suddent Scot-fetish, Kenrick? It's most unbecoming.

[Jethro65]

Ok I'm breaking my sacred pact here and replying.  I'll leave the obvious stupid flames about being from Mississippi out, I allow everyone to show their ignorance at least once before I write them off completely.   First off, I started lurking at the waterthread forums and thought to myself that it may be some individuals here with similar interests and some interesting points of view.  I have enjoyed PC gaming and MMORPGS for many years and I liked something a little more thought provking than the usual VN board drivel.  I think I somehow wound up here from a link on the old VN Shadowbane board.  I have no association with anyone here other than this board, never gamed with them, drank beer, sat and chat or anything else.  That worked for awhile till the move.  Just casually glancing through these forums now reveals no identity, no nothing really just some forums on a random SITE on the internet, same as 999999 others.   I understand the need to be leet, cool, profitable, or whatever floats this site's owners boat is his and his only to make but it just seemed a shame to watch that community fall by the wayside and morph into this thing that should not be.

[schild]

stuff

heh

[Signe]

Both forums suck about the same.   Until Haemish starts sending me a newletter with his always enjoyable Hunter S. Thompson-esque writings, I'll lurk here.  I'll keep checking Corpnews, though, just in case Lum does something.  Maybe I can convince him to move into my basement.  I will consider the extra mouse clicks as part of my daily workout routine.
I need the exercise.

[Margalis]

Excuse me if I'm reading this wrongly - actually, don't excuse me, as your extremely sloppy writing leaves numerous ambiguities - but are you pooh-poohing the h8 boiz for being sceptical of game changes on an a priori basis, then going on to make the same prejudicial exclamations yourself, only from a positive point of view?

Where did I make those exclamations exactly? Oh, nowhere.

I will be less obtuse. A specific example is when CoH restricted the characters to certain archetypes. There is every reason to believe this made the game better. It didn't make the peachy vision of it better, but it made the actual game better. Yeah, it's cool to choose any collection of powers, but NOBODY thought it worked, including the game's creators.

I'll form my opinions based on actual experience or at least second hand info. People complain about auto-attack point-and-click combat, CoH changes that. People complain about camping the same spot for hours to level, WoW changes that. I don't know how good the games will end up being, but those are certianly positive expects, or at least differences.

In the CoH character-creation case they had something working that they spent time on and was popular (among people who had not experience it firsthand) and they REMOVED it knowing it would create some negative vibes. Their reason? To make the game more "fun." Odd concept. They took out a feature they knew was popular among the know-nothings, because they wanted, you know, actual enjoyment in the end product.

I'd like to have you quote some place where I spout some rampant fanboyism. Maybe WoW and CoH will suck, but at least in some different ways. At the least you can give them credit for identifying some problems and trying to address them.

My friend, who worked on FFXI, calls EVERYTHING before WoW/CoH a 1st gen game.

Your friend is simply incorrect.

Thanks, I'll make sure to let him know. How long do you think FFXI was in the planning stages for? (Actually I might have lied, I think he considers SWG a 2nd gen game also.)

His point was that the people who launched the first reasonably successful first-gen MMORPGs are just now working/finishing their next products. From what I understand CoH has some ex-EQ guys, then there are the more well-known ex-EQ guys working on Sigil or whatever...and Raph on SWG.

People tend not to learn from other's mistakes nearly as much as they learn from their own. Experience isn't a group commodity that just flows around in the Ether, it's largely personal. The number of people who have been around the block twice is still very low. Nobody at Square (or few anyway), for example, had ever worked on a MMORPG before. The original ideas for FFXI starting brewing months after EQ came out.

When game development cycles are three or more years, how many generations do you think you'll see in about 6 years?

[Captain Poopypants]

The community feud is damaging, as Rasix said, and neither side is really helping.

LACK OF Infantile angst, bullying around with mod powers,  and constant warring over facts rather than ideas is why I was begining to enjoi the water13 metamorphasis.  schild doesn't bother me that much. (because ignoring him is easy, a mountain easier than ignoring boogerman ffs).

I like haemish's articles. I don't think he is stating the COMPLETELY obvious with each article.  I find them very insightful. Then, I also have to ask WHERE THE BUTTFUMBLEDUCK IS EVERYONE? I also must take in the fact that I tend to think the sky is green where most burnt out ex lummers think it is blue.

Despite predicting this site would collapse eventually due to the arrogance of the people who inhabit it, I'll give it many more months before running off somewhere else. And if someone gives a thumbs up to a site that isn't filled to the brim with the assholes I avoided like the plague when they still trolled here, I'll probably try that too.

[Captain Poopypants]

http://www.corpnews.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=151

looks like more amusement than John Tesh jumping off of a plane with no parachute.

edit

If only it would fucking load.

[Kenrick]

And why the suddent Scot-fetish, Kenrick? It's most unbecoming.

I dunno, it started as a random joke, then turned into a running retarded series of posts when someone said something about goat-loving.  That, and I spent 6 months in scotland last year.

Anyway, back on topic.  The whiny, bitchy, drama queen condition of many people in the mmog community shouldn't surprise anyone.  Like it or not, thanks to the likes of EQ and the powers that be, our community has been overrun by immature, whiny, acne-faced, angst-ridden boys.  So it must be concluded that anyone in our community who is not a little whiny drama queen fuck is in the minority.  Thankfully, this site seems to be geared toward that minority.

Edit:  Just noticed youre a scot, nach0.  I lived in Edinburgh the majority of the time, working at one of those damn Edinburgh Woollen Mill stores.  Great experience overall, though.  Had a great weeklong tour of the highlands with the HAGGiS company.  I miss scotland greatly.

[Signe]

Edit:  Just noticed youre a scot, nach0.  I lived in Edinburgh the majority of the time, working at one of those damn Edinburgh Woollen Mill stores.  Great experience overall, though.  Had a great weeklong tour of the highlands with the HAGGiS company.  I miss scotland greatly.

Edinburgh. Bah!  You might as well be English.  

We'll be in Glasgow this summer visiting Righ's family (they're actually in Dunoon).  Since Nach0 is so close by, we should get together for a meal or a drink.  Or both.  Being in the US these last 3 years, I know Righ could murder a good curry.

[Kenrick]

Glasgow, bleh!  You might as well go live in Detroit.  I bet they're bloody Rangers fans too.

[Mesozoic]

I understand the need to be leet, cool, profitable, or whatever floats this site's owners boat is his and his only to make but it just seemed a shame to watch that community fall by the wayside and morph into this thing that should not be.

WTF is the problem?  The very presence of movie reviews causes you to break out in a rash?  Do you have a personal vendetta against the letter "f" or the number "13"?  Are you on the "I hate Schild" bandwagon?  Honestly, if Schild has ever acted like an ass, its never risen above the level of fucktard noise present on any gaming site ever made.

[Soukyan]

Glasgow, bleh!  You might as well go live in Detroit.  I bet they're bloody Rangers fans too.

They look gay-lick to me. ;)

[Dark Vengeance]

And, in fact, many did better than the thread for the Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes review, despite the site ostensibly being a gaming site.

Isn't that just a remake of the MGS1 for the GameCube??

What is there to say about a game that you've beaten several times already being ported to a platform that probably won't even outlast the PSone???

"Uh, the graphics look better".

Bring the noise.
Cheers..............

[El Gallo]

Things like this certainly don't help the community.  There aren't that many of us, and we were pretty inbred already.

[HaemishM]

I lived in Edinburgh the majority of the time, working at one of those damn Edinburgh Woollen Mill stores.  Great experience overall, though.  Had a great weeklong tour of the highlands with the HAGGiS company.  I miss scotland greatly.

You're making my Inner Scot jealous.

Signe, get in on the COH beta, damnit! And bring Righ with you. It ain't got PVP, but it does have fun.

BTW, we (being me as a writer at F13) didn't start the pissing match, and frankly, I can't understand it. I like most of the guys at Corp, including the idiot posters, the good posters and the writers, and still cannot figure out for the life of me why their panties are in a bunch.

[El Gallo]

I think that a lot of people were pissed off when they suddenly couldn't post here the other day (look at how many posts over there are from that date and later).

[daveNYC]

Are you saying all this could have been avoided by proper use of the <blink> tag?

[taolurker]

BTW, we (being me as a writer at F13) didn't start the pissing match, and frankly, I can't understand it. I like most of the guys at Corp, including the idiot posters, the good posters and the writers, and still cannot figure out for the life of me why their panties are in a bunch.

See and I was thinking the same thing about this site as well.

I CAN say that moderation practices, and stealth editing/deleting of posts is part of the problem since the change to F13. As a rule, on any forum, you lock things that aren't supposed to be discussed, because deleting the comments or threads altogether is equal to silencing people, and censorship, both of which lead to more complaints, more deletions in a vicious cycle.
(previous paragraph is perfect example of something that would disappear, yet shouldn't)

I think the biggest problem in dealing with this was the immdiate destruction of the previous archives, and many threads that people were following, and the people who had maybe discussed this with Joe were the most angered (and whose posts disappeared the quickest).

I can say I have little interest in the TV articles, and don't even turn my TV on except occasionally in the AM for news.

[Captain Poopypants]

[

See and I was thinking the same thing about this site as well.

I CAN say that moderation practices, and stealth editing/deleting of posts is part of the problem since the change to F13. As a rule, on any forum, you lock things that aren't supposed to be discussed, because deleting the comments or threads altogether is equal to silencing people, and censorship, both of which lead to more complaints, more deletions in a vicious cycle.
(previous paragraph is perfect example of something that would disappear, yet shouldn't)

 

Illustration(s), please? And who are all these people that are getting banned?

I think the biggest problem in dealing with this was the immdiate destruction of the previous archives, and many threads that people were following, and the people who had maybe discussed this with Joe were the most angered (and whose posts disappeared the quickest).

 

Of course, lots of people were getting bug-eyed and jaw-dropped over the fact that they couldn't bawl over Pippy Longstocking's little 'mishap'.

Actually, the old stories, the ongoing conversations, and the sheer battles that would erupt between one stalwart boob and another- all being thrown to the Pit of Acheron has made many punch holes into walls.

It still wreaks of pack/flock mentality to me. 18 leave, another 36 leave because they think the site is shit without the original 18, wash rinse and do it again. Empty as a river filled with dioxins. Funny, all those dropkick generalisations have come along for the ride. Sad too, most of the new flock wants to burn what is left of WT to the ground.

I can say I have little interest in the TV articles, and don't even turn my TV on except occasionally in the AM for news.

Ditto. You'd think pulling the good ol 'book talk!' card would be an instant win. Instead...

[Signe]

Hey... I have an idea.  Why don't the people from f13 and the people from corpnews merge and form one big board together?  Clever is my forte.

Anyway... I'm off to see if I can dig up a copy of this wretched sounding comic book MMOG at the local Bestbuy.  Please don't wish me luck.

[nach0king]

I live five minutes from the Dunoon Ferry. My father went to grammar school there.

I'm definitley up for going for a drink. I'll be in Texas for much of this summer. PM me your dates of travel and I'll check my calendar.

[nach0king]

Glasgow, bleh!  You might as well go live in Detroit.  I bet they're bloody Rangers fans too.

They look gay-lick to me. ;)

Hartson (the white one) is Welsh; Larsson is a Swede.

I'm neither a Rangers nor a Celtic fan. I could care less about the Old Firm. Too much religious bigotry.

I'm not orange, I'm not green, I SUPPORT MY LOCAL TEAM!

http://www.gmfc.net/images/100802/AIR01.jpg">

Greenock Morton FC - Pride of the Clyde :)

Edit: Also, what do you mean by the Glasgow comment? Being a student of the University of Glasgow, I have a vested interest :)

[Fabricated]

What is there to say about a game that you've beaten several times already...

"Uh, the graphics look better".

Except for the "beaten" part, that about describes every MMORPG in existence.

I'm jealous actually. Maybe I should post a DVD review or two and get some people I don't know hating me because I'm some runoff of Joe "betraying the community".

As for Corpnews, I didn't know what it was until today. Pretty strange. They don't seem to have any legitimate gripes outside of "WTF I DIDN'T GET TO KEEP MY POSTS", "JOE JUST WANTED TO MAKE MONEY ON THE SITE", and "I HATE SCHILD".

The first one is stupid, the second isn't true, and the third is a pretty fucking petty reason. I wasn't looking at the forums for the whole link deleting thing, but I haven't seen anything deleted since. Most of the people bitching there mentioned that they got themselves banned on purpose.

[Jain Zar]

Yeah.  Seems kinda dumb.

Lot of names I have heard referenced in their thread though.

[Alluvian]

I only hated schild for his moronic CoH comments he was making when he knew nothing at all about the game.  He has come around though and is rather tolerable now.  Grudge slipping away...

[Kenrick]

Edit: Also, what do you mean by the Glasgow comment? Being a student of the University of Glasgow, I have a vested interest :)

Eh, I'm sure Glasgow is just as fine a place to live as edinburgh, I'm just biased.  Glasgow just seems a little dirtier (not saying edinburgh is Eden) and a whole lot more big/crowded.  Anywhoo, neither of them hold a candle to Austin in the long run.  :)

[cuts]

The reason f13 sucks is that it is not wt.o.

wt.o was good. LtM will never come again, but wt.o was fucking GOOD. I have been lurking among the diaspora for a few years now, and the forums there were better than anything this community has produced since snd went away. Lots of insight, lots of debate, lots of Boogaleeboo telling people to go fuck themselves. GOOD. I read it enough that I was actually motivated to register.

Then, one day, this great forum disappears. I am not privy to whatever drama is happening behind the scenes, nor do I particularly care. All I know is that the best gaming forum in existence just went away. There is no good reason for it. Money problems? Any one of wt.o's readers would have gladly stepped up and paid all costs associated with the site. General apathy? Hand it over to someone else. No one cared about the fucking front page anyway. No one cares about it now, either, no matter how many piece-of-shit reviews get posted.

When this sorry replacement went up, I prayed that it would be the same. Or maybe even half as good. It's not. Many of the names that I enjoyed reading posts from are missing. People not named SirBruce got banned left and right. The site changed from the home of a solid little community to the home of a third of that community, plus a lot of fucktards, plus some movie reviews. I officially gave up on f13 becoming what wt.o was when I read a mod post to the effect of "I don't know who this Lum character is".

To sum up: wt.o was good. And now this shit has taken its place. Fuck you, Joe. Fuck you, Schild. And fuck anyone else who took part in killing what was probably the last great site that this community will ever create.