Brink

[Strazos]

This game seriously needs to go on sale for just a weekend, at 50% off or something - at $25 I wouldn't even hesitate to impulse-buy this. But for $50...pfft. 

[Malakili]

Soon enough I imagine.  Its only like 3-4 weeks old still.

[Strazos]

The lack of demo at this point is completely inexcusable. I've watched enough stream feeds to see that I may very well like the game, and if I just had a demo I would probably have bought it, but...as it is, I have to go by indirect experience and mixed reviews. Hence, I'm not opening my wallets.

Has anyone ever heard a reason for the lack of a demo? I'd venture to guess that they'd have had more sales if a demo were available.

[Malakili]

The lack of demo at this point is completely inexcusable. I've watched enough stream feeds to see that I may very well like the game, and if I just had a demo I would probably have bought it, but...as it is, I have to go by indirect experience and mixed reviews. Hence, I'm not opening my wallets.

Has anyone ever heard a reason for the lack of a demo? I'd venture to guess that they'd have had more sales if a demo were available.

Dunno.  Though to be fair I think it would be a hard game to demo.  Playing only single player misses the point, and usually there aren't multiplayer demos for things so I'm not really sure how you'd do a Brink demo right.  Maybe give you full access on a timer or something.   You should wait for a sale anyway, as much as I do like the game, the population is crashing pretty hard, it peaked at only 2,000 players today according to Steam states, and its still in its first month so its probably only going down from there.

[Strazos]

Plenty of multiplayer shooters have demo.

[Kail]

Yeah, I think it's more down to the lack of demos in general these days, plus the desire to save resources.  But I agree it probably hurt the game a fair bit.  For a title like this, I think you want to aim less at the general public and more at the niche audience, and demos are a good way to do that.

Mal, demos for multiplayer games are generally just content limited like single player demos.  Like if I had to design one for Brink, it would be one map (one with a fairly varied set of objectives, like Tower or Terminal), a low level cap (like level 4 or something, so you're limited to rank 1 and medium body), maybe none of the unlockable guns, and just a few of the attachments would be unlocked by default.  Separate servers for the demo game and the "real" game.  The Quake Wars demo was fairly effective, and worked along these lines, if I recall correctly.

[Malakili]

Yeah, they definitely should have a demo, I just sort of understand why they don't.  Hopefully they'll wise up and add one sooner rather than later though, there were all of 3 servers with sub 100 ping for me and more than 10 players this afternoon, thats pretty unacceptable. 

[Nija]

They don't have a demo because if they had a single map to play with all classes available they'd be giving away somewhere around 20% of the content in the game.

[Malakili]

They don't have a demo because if they had a single map to play with all classes available they'd be giving away somewhere around 20% of the content in the game.

[Azazel]

Games with "something to hide" or a lack of confdence in their product also will often lack a demo. Frontlines: Fuel of War is one that comes to mind in this regard. It's a matter of the devs/publishers weighing up the value of how many "New game, looks interesting - I'll try it" sales they would lose to a poorly-received demo versus how many "hey, this game is fun - I'll tell all my friends" sales they would gain.

[Kail]

There's a story about this on RPS linked on Brink's Steam news page:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/05/26/the-slow-strange-death-of-the-demo/

The thrust of the article is that a lot of games try to build themselves up as some kind of cultural "event" or something, and that demos deflate the over the top hype that marketing is trying to generate.  "Call of Duty is an easy example – the hype and sense of event around what it’s going to be, what’s going to happen would perhaps be deflated by a demo’s concrete proof that beneath the clamour it’s just another high-budget shooter very similar to the last one. Which is not actually to malign CoD, but to comment on the fact that the promotion makes it into something almost mystical, something far beyond any possible reality."  It's not necessarily that the game is bad, but if you're trying to hype it up, you want to keep that pressure building until it seems like something you have to play.  You don't want the consumer making a rational choice based on if the game is appealing to them specifically, you want them making an emotional choice because the game seems exciting.

On the subject of Brink, specifically: "Selling a different reality and avoiding exposing the reality can happen in more direct fashion too – take Brink’s splendid-looking TV adverts, for example. They suggest something very action movie, very glossy and very narrative-driven, rather than the solid, tactical and clever team shooter the game really is. As a result, we have a mixed message, but I’m convinced a demo finding its way to curious gamers would serve to strengthen their sense of, and hopefully interest in, Splash Damage’s thoughtful multiplayer game."

[Strazos]

Perhaps we should all take turn borrowing Malakili's Steam account to demo Brink.

[Malakili]

Perhaps we should all take turn borrowing Malakili's Steam account to demo Brink.

They need some kind of old school starcraft/diablo style "spawned copy" so you could join the same game as me or something for some kind of limited time, that'd be a unique/interesting way to do a demo.

[Azazel]

There's a story about this on RPS linked on Brink's Steam news page:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/05/26/the-slow-strange-death-of-the-demo/

The thrust of the article is that a lot of games try to build themselves up as some kind of cultural "event" or something, and that demos deflate the over the top hype that marketing is trying to generate.  "Call of Duty is an easy example – the hype and sense of event around what it’s going to be, what’s going to happen would perhaps be deflated by a demo’s concrete proof that beneath the clamour it’s just another high-budget shooter very similar to the last one. Which is not actually to malign CoD, but to comment on the fact that the promotion makes it into something almost mystical, something far beyond any possible reality."  It's not necessarily that the game is bad, but if you're trying to hype it up, you want to keep that pressure building until it seems like something you have to play.  You don't want the consumer making a rational choice based on if the game is appealing to them specifically, you want them making an emotional choice because the game seems exciting.

That article seems to illustrate the whole "thing" around LA Noir very well. Duke Nukem & Bulletstorm as well - while having demos are/were also promoted as "events" in that emotive manner.

Malakili - That actually sounds like an excellent suggestion for a demo format that would/could work for a game like Brink.
 

[Kail]

(NECRO)

DLC dropped today.  The catch?  It's free, but only for two weeks.  If you have Brink, you'll probably want to grab it now or never.

The DLC has been something of a trainwreck so far.  Originally announced in May for release in June, it was then rescheduled for early July, and then finally definitely said it would be out on August 3 (which pissed off some euros since there was some muckiness with Steam which pulled it offline until after midnight there).  For a grand total of two maps, two outfits, and some weapon mods, it's taken them nearly a quarter year to crank it out, during which time the population of the game has really dwindled.  But oh well.

[Strazos]

And the game is still $50. Since someone involved with deciding their pricing is clearly mentally challenged, I guess I'll never buy the game now - just on principle.

[Malakili]

Still could've been a good game but the train has left the station.  Got a solid 45 hours before the pop became so low I could barely find games in prime time.

[01101010]

Still could've been a good game but the train has left the station.  Got a solid 45 hours before the pop became so low I could barely find games in prime time.

They waited much too long to drop the price... They'll never get the numbers back now. Sadly.

[Malakili]

Incidentally, saw this pop up on steam and clicked install thinking, well, I'll have to reinstall the whole game, but I might as well so I can get it for free in case I ever actually want this again.  I got the following message without even having to actually install anything:   BRINK: Agents of Change is now registered to your account on Steam.

So, if you have Brink on Steam and want to get this on your account while it is free, all you have to do is go to http://store.steampowered.com/app/22364/ and click install.

[Kail]

And the game is still $50. Since someone involved with deciding their pricing is clearly mentally challenged, I guess I'll never buy the game now - just on principle.

FYI, the game's on sale now as part of Steam's Quakecon event.  It's 50% 0ff ($25.00) at the moment.  And it's free to play this weekend, evidently.

[Malakili]

And the game is still $50. Since someone involved with deciding their pricing is clearly mentally challenged, I guess I'll never buy the game now - just on principle.

FYI, the game's on sale now as part of Steam's Quakecon event.  It's 50% 0ff ($25.00) at the moment.  And it's free to play this weekend, evidently.

Its also having a free weekend starting now, so if there is anyone that wanted to try the game, nows the time.

[01101010]

Sadly, by the time it hits my price point threshold, there will be all of 5 people playing, total. 

[Threash]

Yeah really, i'm not spending 25 dollars on something that might only be popular for the free weekend.  At this point they really need to realize it was a failure and drop it to 5 bucks just to keep any sort of population going.

[Furiously]

Downloading now. I expect to be $25 bucks poorer by the end of the weekend.

[Kail]

Quick note for people new to the game:  It doesn't say it on the server browser, but the population limit generally tells you the type of server for the PC game.  8 v. 8 games have a 16 player limit, and games with an 8 player limit are generally cooperative bot matches against the computer.  Map knowledge is really important in this game, so I'd suggest running a few bot matches before trying a 16 player game.

[Strazos]

NOPE! Going to just jump right in - how hard could it be? 

[Mrbloodworth]

 

[Malakili]

NOPE! Going to just jump right in - how hard could it be? 

Note: Up is a viable direction in this game.  The maps aren't as linear as they initial seem.

[Furiously]

I'm not seeing a lot of game there.

[Malakili]

I'm not seeing a lot of game there.

Its still only like 10 maps I think, even with the new ones.  Granted, they are generally fairly long and multistaged.  But thats the beginning and end of what Brink is.  Its Enemy Territory updated for 2011, for better or worse depending on how much of an ET purist you are I guess.

[Furiously]

I played through all of the resistance scenarios and about 1/2 or the police force ones in about 3 hours. Granted, this isn't a game that is about completing the storyline. But still... I could pay $10 for an autographed picture of Bruce Campbell and have just as much chin to look at and save myself $10.

[Malakili]

I played through all of the resistance scenarios and about 1/2 or the police force ones in about 3 hours. Granted, this isn't a game that is about completing the storyline. But still... I could pay $10 for an autographed picture of Bruce Campbell and have just as much chin to look at and save myself $10.

Honestly I haven't even played single player besides the challenges to get the unlockables.  Its a multiplayer shooter, this isn't a game you would buy to  "play through" you'd buy if you like the game mechanics and want to play multiplayer regularly.  I know they made a big deal about multiplayer and single player all being tried together with the same character and all that, but thats all smoke and mirrors in my opinion.  25 bucks is still borderline for the game (says someone who bought it at full price) in my opinion just because there is no way to know if the free weekend will bring in enough population to actually keep the game alive, and without players, as you've noticed, there isn't much there.

[Amaron]

Sadly, by the time it hits my price point threshold, there will be all of 5 people playing, total. 

It passed that point long ago.   If you're in the US you can often log in and there won't be a single US server with people on it.   There's usually a couple somewhere in europe with people but this game is DEAD DEAD DEAD.   It's a multiplayer FPS with one game mode.   My steam says I've played it for 87 hours so it's not like I'm saying that one game mode was horrible but still it obviously had no staying power.

[Malakili]

Sadly, by the time it hits my price point threshold, there will be all of 5 people playing, total. 

It passed that point long ago.   If you're in the US you can often log in and there won't be a single US server with people on it.   There's usually a couple somewhere in europe with people but this game is DEAD DEAD DEAD.   It's a multiplayer FPS with one game mode.   My steam says I've played it for 87 hours so it's not like I'm saying that one game mode was horrible but still it obviously had no staying power.

The game just doesn't grab you right away.  I think I said this earlier in the thread somewhere, but I actually started enjoying the game MORE after about 25 hours of time, I knew how all the guns worked, I really understood the maps and the alternate routes you can take and where the objectives (and side objectives) where and how to actually successfully complete them.  But if you have shooters you already enjoy and then you play Brink, its just going to feel confusing and the gunplay IS a little wonky (not awful, but definitely a little odd), often times its just a cluster fuck for the first few times you play each map until you really figure out what you're doing.  By that time though, I think most of the people were already gone and heading back to their normal shooter of choice (TF2, CoD, whatever).  And thats on the developers, not the players.  I'm not making a "darn kids aren't willing to put in the time" argument.  The developers needed to come up with a better way to make the game grab people right from the start and feel like it was worth putting the time in to learn the finer points.

[Sophismata]

This is still USD$67.49 in Australia (the 50% off sale is actually 25% off down under, apparently).

I am not paying that much. I am not even going to bother downloading a game I am not going to buy.

Edit: the entire Quakecon pack is USD$69.99, and includes Fallout 3, Morrowind, Oblivion, Quake 4, Wolf 3D (and Return), etc... Now that's something I'm willing to actually pay $70 for. This may be a repeat of this incident, however, but I would hope not.