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Author Topic: Gazillion's Marvel MMO - F2P, Play as existing Marvel characters only  (Read 883376 times)
dd0029
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Reply #3150 on: November 25, 2015, 06:28:44 AM

Magik looks really cool. Her melee spec is horribly spirit starved though. She had me looking for my spirit artifacts for the first time in a long time.

The defense thing is odd too. Outside of weapon damage, you could concieveably use the same piece of gear from 1-60 for slots 2-5 defensively. And outside of the +powers bonuses, it doesn't even look like you'd miss all that much else either. The other stats look to be in roughly the same range for every piece too.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 06:30:55 AM by dd0029 »
Merusk
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Reply #3151 on: November 25, 2015, 08:43:46 AM

Magik is pretty fun to play. Reading the forums for her everyone seems to have decided she sucks terribly and needs to be recreated from the ground-up.

The complaints are apparently that her trees don't stand alone and that she's "not a real melee" because she doesn't have the 20% passive DR. She's got 8% from the Soulsword toggle though and amazing mobility so that seems to be mostly BS.

However looking at her there's no way the Magic tree can be a viable sole-point investment tree. That seems more a buff/ utility line than a real DPS line at least early on. Maybe it comes into its own with the later powers but I don't think that's going to happen.

The summons I'm hearing are 'weak' but I think that's from people who aren't going whole-hog with it. You're a summoner you've got to dedicate all your command points to it and build exclusively for it. Don't toggle the command-sucking buffs and use those points only to summon things. You can get 5 lesser demons and one of the big guys out then you can direct them at-will.  There's plenty of room for Soul Cleaving and Sorcerous Eruption in a build that focuses on two demon types and a point in the mind-control at the bottom of the tree

For Melee I see her as a real hybrid, like Strange. (Who was also a Spirit sponge at early levels.) You need a little of something from every tree to really make her effective and the command point system is how you handle this.

You're using the command points to toggle buffs here, summon demons and sacrifice them to buff abilities, health or damage. I'm leaning towards the 5% damage from killing the ranged minions rather than the health or the big guys. Then you use the rest of the points to toggle Mastery of Soulsword for the addtional 5% damag and 100% buff on 7-league step.

In the Magic tree Soul Shockwave has been underwhelming when I'm throwing it around and being tied to summoned ally +damage means you're investing in things you're not going to use as a melee. Her Signature is key for the spirit starvation and I figure to max it and Vampirc Incantation, toggled according to situation. They're all pretty solid toggles for melee builds. I put a point in bone wall for the ranged and mob blocking since that's always my bane with melee in groups like AIM or Hydra.

Her melee hits are all pretty solid but Sorc. Eruption and Rending Swings are clearly winners due to synergies and 7-sided being your go-to for damage. I don't have Soul Sever or Soul Cleaving yet but I think Soul Sever will win out for pure melee with its execute.

She doesn't look like she's going to be super OP like Witch or Doom but she's definitely solid, IMO.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Segoris
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Reply #3152 on: November 25, 2015, 08:48:08 AM

Wow the equipment changes are confusing.


For you or anyone else confused, below I've posted is a better summary from the forums. In general, if you were well geared and clearing all content before then there isn't much of a change since there's currently no content requiring higher defense. However, those that wanted to build more defensively will notice a difference compared to before where the difference was minimal (primarily due to easily reached and heavy hitting diminishing returns) unless you heavily invested.

The post is spoilered for size, and is found here http://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/comment/3184749#Comment_3184749

Trippy
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Reply #3153 on: November 25, 2015, 10:35:49 AM

I'm getting City of Heroes flashbacks.
Segoris
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Reply #3154 on: November 25, 2015, 01:31:24 PM

Magik looks really cool. Her melee spec is horribly spirit starved though. She had me looking for my spirit artifacts for the first time in a long time.

Are you using vampiric incantation? That is where she gets most of her spirit from (in combination with is sig on cooldown).

The summons I'm hearing are 'weak' but I think that's from people who aren't going whole-hog with it. You're a summoner you've got to dedicate all your command points to it and build exclusively for it. Don't toggle the command-sucking buffs and use those points only to summon things. You can get 5 lesser demons and one of the big guys out then you can direct them at-will.  There's plenty of room for Soul Cleaving and Sorcerous Eruption in a build that focuses on two demon types and a point in the mind-control at the bottom of the tree

I agree with most of what you're saying, and I think she is under par dps wise, but she's far from being as bad as the whiners on the forums are making her out to be. Though, there are a couple of things worth noting

You can only have 1 big and 3 lesser, not 1 big and 5 lesser. 8 total command, biggies take 5 smallers take 1 each. Yes, using the 3x lesser instead of a toggle is a small dps gain (at least on paper so far, still testing in practice if it's a gain and worthwhile), but even with that setup and over 520% summon dmg the summons aren't that great. Somewhat low tuning on summons is only one part of the reason why the spec as a whole is lacking.

Unlike other summoners, Magik's summon tree does not contain damage layers and her main spenders are both in the Soulsword tree. So using the summoner uniques causes all of Magik's dmg layers and her main spenders to drop to rank 38-40, and any bonuses/multipliers that those powers were getting based on +summon dmg are offset by the reduced ranks. So basically, almost her entire Magic tree is a pile of shit due to bad tuning, no spender, and bad implementation. Meanwhile the soulsword tree (as a summoner) is lacking due to a lack of ranks and no multipliers for dmg layers.

My first thoughts on how to fix this with as small of a change as possible would be if they set it up so having Mastery of the Soulsword toggled off made her soulsword tree (except Rending Swings and Soul Sever) gain a bonus from summon dmg, she'd be in a much better place even with the lower ranks. Or give the Magic tree a ranged spender, and more than double the bonuses from summon gear.

Quote
For Melee I see her as a real hybrid, like Strange. (Who was also a Spirit sponge at early levels.) You need a little of something from every tree to really make her effective and the command point system is how you handle this.

You're using the command points to toggle buffs here, summon demons and sacrifice them to buff abilities, health or damage. I'm leaning towards the 5% damage from killing the ranged minions rather than the health or the big guys. Then you use the rest of the points to toggle Mastery of Soulsword for the addtional 5% damag and 100% buff on 7-league step

I agree with these points, but I do think it's worth mentioning two things if people are having spirit issues. 1) Sacrificing N'astirh for 10% spirit cost reduction is immediately noticeable, and 2) Sorc Eruption is another spirit hog. DPS wise it's twice that of Step to Me, but it costs 3x the spirit in the same time frame. So this is the one to use, but only after you have your spirit under control

Quote
Her melee hits are all pretty solid but Sorc. Eruption and Rending Swings are clearly winners due to synergies and 7-sided being your go-to for damage. I don't have Soul Sever or Soul Cleaving yet but I think Soul Sever will win out for pure melee with its execute.

As for For single target, Soul Sever wins out even as a summoner :( It's counterpart, Vengeful Spirit, is ahead in dmg for the first 20% or so until Sever's execute portion pulls SS ahead, and it only gets stronger as the fight goes on. That is if Vengeful Spirit's charges all hit the same target too. If there are more than one target that aren't stacked on top of each other then VS is immediately a dps loss as a summoner.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 01:35:19 PM by Segoris »
dd0029
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Reply #3155 on: November 26, 2015, 09:03:15 AM

After playing around this morning, the defense changes aren't that big for the most part. Outside of my Cap that is, I used to think we was sort of flimsy. He's now beastly.
Fordel
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Reply #3156 on: November 26, 2015, 10:02:28 AM

The latest patch produced a pretty nasty memory leak or something of that sort. Opening certain menus or entering certain zones just causes my game to freeze up for half a dozen seconds at a time, if not flat out crash.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Ironwood
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Reply #3157 on: November 26, 2015, 11:05:27 AM

After playing around this morning, the defense changes aren't that big for the most part. Outside of my Cap that is, I used to think we was sort of flimsy. He's now beastly.

 Head scratch

Flimsy ?  Christ.

"Mr Soft Owl has Seen Some Shit." - Sun Tzu
dd0029
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Reply #3158 on: November 26, 2015, 07:39:52 PM

Yeah, I don't know. I know he was supposed to be a rock, but for some reason whenever I played him in CMM or anything else rough I routinely got mowed down. It's definitely possible I could have been doing it wrong, but that's the way it felt.
ezrast
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Reply #3159 on: November 26, 2015, 10:44:45 PM

I came back a couple days ago and tried to do the cosmic trial on my Psylocke with <2k omegas, no starktech to speak of, only one ilvl 69 slot, and artifacts that were top-tier maybe 18 months ago, and couldn't quite avoid getting burst down on each of half a dozen attempts. After the patch I succeeded first try. Meanwhile, my woefully-undergeared tasky went from failing because of death to failing because of low DPS. So the survivability boost feels real to me.
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Reply #3160 on: November 27, 2015, 07:16:20 AM

Pretty bored with everything I've got so I'm gonna give this a whirl; any tips for a newbie? It's downloading through Steam now.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Threash
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Reply #3161 on: November 27, 2015, 07:26:13 AM

Pretty bored with everything I've got so I'm gonna give this a whirl; any tips for a newbie? It's downloading through Steam now.

There's still a couple trap characters, but with how huge the roster is you are unlikely to get stuck with them.  I think Colossus and Taskmaster are the only shitty ones left.

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Rendakor
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Reply #3162 on: November 27, 2015, 07:27:26 AM

Alright. I see they're doing 50% off characters that wear black in an hour or two, so I might buy one just to have someone unlocked. Any suggestions?

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Threash
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Reply #3163 on: November 27, 2015, 07:49:53 AM

I can't find the actual list so i am going to assume it only includes the heroes in the picture.  Those are all good choices really, Venom might be a tad boring in his playstyle but he is tough as nails.  All except Punisher can be ranged or melee.  Edit: just noticed its 50% off and BOGO, so wow i would buy all of them.

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Fordel
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Reply #3164 on: November 27, 2015, 09:41:52 AM

Pretty bored with everything I've got so I'm gonna give this a whirl; any tips for a newbie? It's downloading through Steam now.

There's still a couple trap characters, but with how huge the roster is you are unlikely to get stuck with them.  I think Colossus and Taskmaster are the only shitty ones left.

Neither of those is really awful either. I think Colossus got a few changes this patch even!

There is absolutely a difference in power scale between certain heroes though. The top tier heroes are way above the rest.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Rendakor
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Reply #3165 on: November 27, 2015, 09:52:30 AM

Who are the top tiers?

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Fordel
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Reply #3166 on: November 27, 2015, 10:03:15 AM

Doom, Scarlet Witch, Jean, Strange (though strange is also a enourmous bitch to play), Iceman, Doom, I think Surfer is still up here? why so serious?

Then you have sleeper hits that while not entirely OP like the above, they are still incredibly strong: Captain Marvel, Psylocke, Black Panther, Captain America, I'd probably toss Ghambit in that pile maybe. Just really strong picks that will crush all the content in game.

Though to be fair the lists changes like every patch, they are pretty good at keeping everyone up to date and there are very few that are really BAD. Cable used to be AWFUL, but I think he's fixed now. Colossus is mostly dull, he's very much giant punch man, but he can actually punch pretty darn well. I want to say Nightcrawler is less then awesome currently? I don't have him myself, going by what others say.


It's probably easier to just pick one you like and we'll tell you if it's shit or not.  awesome, for real

-edit- There are FIFTY-THREE heroes in the game as of today. 53!
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 10:05:17 AM by Fordel »

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Rendakor
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Reply #3167 on: November 27, 2015, 10:54:48 AM

I grabbed Deadpool, X23 and Scarlet Witch; got Nova and someone else I can't remember as my freebies. I'll grab Doom tonight since he's only 25% off.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Fordel
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Reply #3168 on: November 27, 2015, 11:05:06 AM

That's a solid list!

I'm a big fan of X-23, she's a little murder blender  Heart

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Rendakor
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Reply #3169 on: November 27, 2015, 12:15:57 PM

Dr. Doom got me Luke Cage, and the other freebie was Rogue. It's best to get 1 char to 60 first, right? I think I read that gives some kind of account-wide bonus.

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Ironwood
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Reply #3170 on: November 27, 2015, 01:05:40 PM

Yes.  And its good if its Cyclops.

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Threash
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Reply #3171 on: November 27, 2015, 01:18:01 PM

Dr. Doom got me Luke Cage, and the other freebie was Rogue. It's best to get 1 char to 60 first, right? I think I read that gives some kind of account-wide bonus.

Your first 60 gets you a 30% account wide exp bonus, second one 20% third one 15% and fourth 10%.  After that each 60 gives you 5% more exp until you reach 200% at 29 heroes.

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Typhon
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Reply #3172 on: November 27, 2015, 01:22:32 PM

And Cyclops' synergy is exp bonus (which is why Ironwood was saying it's good to get him).

Doom is probably the best from the list you have - gameplay/power is excellent, character feel is top notch.  Deadpool will make you laugh while you play him, but his gameplay is (was? maybe? hopefully?) sub-par/boring.  Actually, gameplay-wise, you have a nice mix with Doom, X23, SW and Nova.  I'm a big fan of Nova, but I like movement power champs.
Threash
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Reply #3173 on: November 27, 2015, 01:57:53 PM

And Cyclops' synergy is exp bonus (which is why Ironwood was saying it's good to get him).

 (was? maybe? hopefully?)

They are holding his review back until the december rebrand.

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Rendakor
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Reply #3174 on: November 27, 2015, 02:36:23 PM

And Cyclops' synergy is exp bonus (which is why Ironwood was saying it's good to get him).

Doom is probably the best from the list you have - gameplay/power is excellent, character feel is top notch.  Deadpool will make you laugh while you play him, but his gameplay is (was? maybe? hopefully?) sub-par/boring.  Actually, gameplay-wise, you have a nice mix with Doom, X23, SW and Nova.  I'm a big fan of Nova, but I like movement power champs.
I'm sticking with Deadpool so far, because he's hilarious. Gameplay is just combat roll, throw grenade, repeat, and that's fine.

"i can't be a star citizen. they won't even give me a star green card"
Threash
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Reply #3175 on: November 30, 2015, 01:41:45 PM

The top characters based on their dps are actually Loki Nova Thor and Cable, while Doom Scarlet Witch and Jean are more in the "good enough damage to do all content easily plus a ton of fun to play on top of it" category.

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Segoris
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Reply #3176 on: November 30, 2015, 05:30:28 PM

Last I saw, She-Hulk tied Thor while Vision was #2 at 3:40. Is there a place you're going besides Subpeona's thread/spreadsheet to see Vision and She-Hulk falling behind?

Also, I'd toss Surfer in with your list of Doom/SW/JG. Any of them are ridiculous right now
Threash
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Reply #3177 on: November 30, 2015, 06:26:13 PM

This one, but i basically just skimmed it.  She-Hulk and Vision are up there also.

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Fordel
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Reply #3178 on: November 30, 2015, 06:37:19 PM

TTK alone is such a meh metric, even though the forums fap over it. Like the focus on TTK is why SO MANY people just hit a brick wall when the cosmic trial came out, and I'm betting we'll see more of that whenever the danger room actually shows up.

Target dummy doesn't hit back and all that.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Segoris
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Reply #3179 on: December 01, 2015, 12:30:17 AM

No one is saying TTK is anything more than TTK, which is why the next comment about Doom/SW/JG/(and Sufer imo) are more important. they are top ttk and ttl. I don't think anyone beats those 4 heroes when both are considered

And it was more than just the focus on gearing/specing for ttk as to why the cosmic trial was a challenge for many, especially since defense did crap for most heroes. IMO, it was more a playstyle and over-aggressiveness with people's inability to sit back and heal that caused quite a few to fail, regardless of how they specced/geared.
Typhon
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Reply #3180 on: December 01, 2015, 05:48:27 AM

And Cyclops' synergy is exp bonus (which is why Ironwood was saying it's good to get him).

Doom is probably the best from the list you have - gameplay/power is excellent, character feel is top notch.  Deadpool will make you laugh while you play him, but his gameplay is (was? maybe? hopefully?) sub-par/boring.  Actually, gameplay-wise, you have a nice mix with Doom, X23, SW and Nova.  I'm a big fan of Nova, but I like movement power champs.
I'm sticking with Deadpool so far, because he's hilarious. Gameplay is just combat roll, throw grenade, repeat, and that's fine.

Was playing X23 last night and remembered something you might not know about - she was the last(ish) heroes to not have a travel power.  Deadpool has TP later on, so he doesn't count.  Once you get used to playing heroes with a travel power playing one without is painful.  They are going back and giving heroes travel powers but progress is slow.
Fordel
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Reply #3181 on: December 01, 2015, 03:50:50 PM

WarMachine is weird. I still don't quite get how I'm supposed to use Heat, or not use it, or whatever. Level 30ish so far, so maybe I need more of his kit to get it all to fall into place.

Magik is super fun, even if the summoning aspect seems lack luster. The teleporting sword attacks and corpse explosion make up for it.

and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
Segoris
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Reply #3182 on: December 01, 2015, 05:03:19 PM

Was playing X23 last night and remembered something you might not know about - she was the last(ish) heroes to not have a travel power.  Deadpool has TP later on, so he doesn't count.  Once you get used to playing heroes with a travel power playing one without is painful.  They are going back and giving heroes travel powers but progress is slow.

They spoilered that a little bit while explaining why it was taking so long. Basically, the new plan is to do a pass on every hero at the same time which gives everyone a free travel power (no power point needed) and a dedicated hotkey for it.

WarMachine is weird. I still don't quite get how I'm supposed to use Heat, or not use it, or whatever. Level 30ish so far, so maybe I need more of his kit to get it all to fall into place.

Magik is super fun, even if the summoning aspect seems lack luster. The teleporting sword attacks and corpse explosion make up for it.

For WM:
-Ranged abilities generate heat, once it's at max you cannot use your ranged power until your heat is expended which is when you use Spitfire (a cooldown skill to spend all heat and does some damage).
-Melee is the opposite. You'll use a cooldown to hit max heat so your melee powers do 10% more dmg (25% if using the specialization for it), and overheating does not lock out your melee powers.

I do agree that Magik is fun, but that fun for me is outweighed by her bugs, bad tuning, questionable power placement, and limitation to 5 uniques. I do really like her melee tree though.
Threash
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Reply #3183 on: December 01, 2015, 06:00:03 PM

I liked her melee tree but it just felt like yet another hot chick with a sword.

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Fordel
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Reply #3184 on: December 07, 2015, 10:38:13 AM

Magik is preeeeety gooood.

My freshly dinged 60 Magik just blew threw the cosmic trial in a random hodgepodge of leftover gear in my vault. With like 30-45 seconds to spare on both waves. No legendary or stat enchants or stark-tech and the pet she was using only had +1 all attributes at the time. Did have 4x Hela's and 600 Lumina? (the health on hit ones) relics. Three of her uniques and 2 random any hero ones to fill slots. 2600 omegas. Good old River of Souls on a mental uru to round it out! 23k HP total? 30%'ish damage reduction.

Not a character that should be passing the trial, let alone with ample time to spare.  why so serious?


Her powers are just so hilarious abusive, between the corpse explosion spell granting tons of spirit/health on hit and another 20% bonus DR (or more precisely lowering enemy damage by 20%), her signature just healing/refilling 25-35% spirit and heatlh and half her melee attacks granting immunity or superior positioning, just never stop with the strobe light murder. As long as she doesn't get one shot, she can recover and continue and she has plenty of tools to just flat out avoid most one shot attacks.

I've given up entirely on any of her summoning though, I use both toggles and then pop two default minions to turn into HP buffs. That like entire middle tree is dead to me.

Maxed her toggles, maxed that corpse explosion power, maxed her spirit spending sword attack that gets bonus damage when using a toggle, maxed Seven Steps and the Backstab power, maxed that circle root/stun power as well. 1 point in the mob gathering power, her CC breaker and her anytime teleport. The other like half dozen random points were put into her signature.

Gonna level up a Warlocks Eye and see how that works, but I may end up using a Shield on her, depends on how squishy she stays after I get a little more decent gear on her. Like she cruised through the cosmic trial, but cosmic midtown itself was still VERY hit or miss with that HP pool and armor level. Could kill things just fine, but she would evaporate if I even so much as sneezed at the wrong time.


and the gate is like I TOO AM CAPABLE OF SPEECH
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